Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Rejuvenation] * * * Insulin and Hb-A1c Blood Test Result

Expand Messages
  • jorge carrera
    Elevated hemoglobin/hematocrit is a physiologic adaptation to high altitude to increase the the oxygen carrying capacity of blood; it would happen to any one
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 19, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Elevated hemoglobin/hematocrit is a physiologic adaptation to high altitude to increase the the oxygen carrying capacity of blood; it would happen to any one living in a high altitude for an extended period of time (not just visiting for a few days).

      Higher oxygen carrying capacity is good if you want to increase your physical performance; however, elevated hematocrit on a sedentary person can have negative consequences due to increase blood viscosity and iron load.

      I agree with Dr. Garcia that for most people the hematocrit should not be kept higher than 45% and only increase it up to 50% if you exercise heavily on a consistent basis.

      I don't argue with you that you should want 45% for persons that are sedentary if you think that is safer... but I think there is a flaw in your reasoning. I don't see why you should want 45% for "sedentary persons" because it is safer, if at the same time you are willing to accept that 50% hematocrit is safe enough for a person who exercises. Why wouldn't you also want more endurance and more oxygen to the brain and other areas of the body and all of the advantages that a higher hematocrit can give to a person who is sedentary, if you do accept that 50% is safe enough for a person who is exercising, whose heart is beating faster, who is sweating more, etc.? -Ellis]

      jgarciamd@... wrote:

      Well, I do not do chelaton but along with iron you can lose many other minerals in the treatment.

      [Yes, of course you can, but you can easily replace the good metals. After a chelation therapy you always drink minerals. - Ellis]

      As to the Bolivian people, I believe that they have other dietary and genetic factors which most likely keep them healthy, and they are at such an altitude that they need that Hct for oxygen transport.

      [No, there are many people of European descent living in La Paz, and their hematocrit is above 60% too, without any special problem. I am not suggesting that 60% is what I would like to aim for. I just want to point out that it seems like 60% hematocrit is not necessarily a dangerous hematocrit on an otherwise healthy person. For anybody who has a heart condition, of course I would suggest they should not live in La Paz, Bolivia. In fact, many people with a heart condition, even at the relatively low altitude of Mexico City, go to live at sea level.- Ellis]

      As far as the "too high," I would like the men to be below a Hct of 45, personally.

      [That is, for a normal healthy man, you like them to have an average hematocrit of 45%, which is normal and average for the population. O.K. I like 50%. Neither one seems to cause a health problem. But at 50% I feel I have more resistance, and I like the extra 10% (45% + 4.5%) oxygen for my brain. - Ellis]

      As to the cyclists being allowed to compete, the value of 50 is used as the high limit or normal, taking into consideration training and possible hemoconcentration from dehydration. The not letting them compete with values of higher than 50% is because they have illegally doped their blood with either transfusions or EPO, both practices are banned.

      [Of course that is the reason. Any cyclist who would like to race without taking EPO is certain to lose, because any cyclist who prefers to take EPO will win, and it cannot be detected. But what can be detected is that hematocrit is a certain percentage, and so the Sport Federation (or whoever) has decided to oblige all of them be "cheaters" rather than to accept that they should all be legal. But that isn't the point of this discussion. What I want to point out is that the Sport Federation didn't set the upper limit at 45%, they set it at 50%, which is still safe. If they had set it at 45% they would have had to eliminate about 40% of the athletes. (Whatever % it is, I forgot, the area that falls under the bell curve from the median to 1 (or is it 2?) standard deviations away) because that is the number of athletes who would be above 45% (median) and below 50%. - Ellis]

      I just feel that a excessively high HCT can lead to problems, from blood being thicker and also the iron load.

      [I agree with you... what I am not sure I agree with is that *45%* is the point to start worrying. I would agree with 55%, perhaps. Of course, I am not a doctor, so it doesn't matter what I think anyways. - Ellis]

      Dr. Julio Garcia wrote:

      I think your EPO use in elderly anemic patients is warranted with simultaneous testosterone supplementation.

      My point is that Hg is good, but as your hematocrit or Hg count goes up, your blood gets thicker and more prone to clot, like in heart attacks.

      The ability of the body to carry more oxygen for example between a hemoglobin of 14 and 16 is minimal. So in older individuals who are anemic, EPO would be indicated along with judicious iron supplementation. In normal younger patients though there is an association between amount of iron and heart disease (probably one of the reasons some chelation people show improvement in heart disease).

      It is these younger people with acceptable Hg counts where donating blood may be helpful to eliminate some of their excess body iron. In older anemic patients they should not donate blood, just in the younger patients.

      I have all my male patiens on injectable testosterone donate blood whenever their Hemoglobin goes over 15. My point here would be not to donate blood if you are taking EPO, and only take EPO if needed and monitor your Hemoglobin to avoid it getting too high

      Ellis wrote:

      [Hello Dr. Garcia. You have your male patients donate blood to lower their iron after Hemoglobin goes above 15?

      Wouldn't it be better to take EDTA chelation, thus lower iron, and not lower the rest of the volume of blood (red blood cells, hemoglobin, white blood cells, etc) ?

      What level of hematocrit/hemoglobin do you consider is "high enough" and what level do you consider is "too high" and what level is "dangerous"?

      I point out that in La Paz, Bolivia, with an altitude of nearly 4000 meters above sea level (Mexico City is 2100 mts) it is common for hematocrit to be above 60%, and they are not having a national health crisis with heart attacks. And the normal distribution of hematocrit shows an average hematocrit of 45% about 5% of the population has 50% or more, and about 1% of the population has a hematocrit of about 55%. See charts (link) here: Charts of Hematocrit and Hemoglobin

      In bicycle racing, cyclists are tested for hematocrit, and if their hematocrit is 50% or below they can compete. If it is 51% or higher they are disqualified on health reasons, supposedly to protect them from an even higher hematocrit which comes as a result of dehydration during the cycling race.

      I like to have my own hematocrit about 50% or 51%. I have seen that it makes me have a lot of resistance when I get on the treadmill. Recently I walked fast, 1500 meters and finished running 500 meters quite fast, at the end of which I had a heartbeat of about 160, which is not at all bad (in fact, pretty good for an OLD MAN!)

      - Ellis]

      jgarciamd@... wrote:

      Well, I do not do chelaton but along with iron you can lose many other minerals in the treatment.

      [Yes, of course you can, but you can easily replace the good metals. After a chelation therapy you always drink minerals. - Ellis]

      As to the Bolivian people, I believe that they have other dietary and genetic factors which most likely keep them healthy, and they are at such an altitude that they need that Hct for oxygen transport.

      [No, there are many people of European descent living in La Paz, and their hematocrit is above 60% too, without any special problem. I am not suggesting that 60% is what I would like to aim for. I just want to point out that it seems like 60% hematocrit is not necessarily a dangerous hematocrit on an otherwise healthy person. For anybody who has a heart condition, of course I would suggest they should not live in La Paz, Bolivia. In fact, many people with a heart condition, even at the relatively low altitude of Mexico City, go to live at sea level.- Ellis]

      As far as the "too high," I would like the men to be below a Hct of 45, personally.

      [That is, for a normal healthy man, you like them to have an average hematocrit of 45%, which is normal and average for the population. O.K. I like 50%. Neither one seems to cause a health problem. But at 50% I feel I have more resistance, and I like the extra 10% (45% + 4.5%) oxygen for my brain. - Ellis]

      As to the cyclists being allowed to compete, the value of 50 is used as the high limit or normal, taking into consideration training and possible hemoconcentration from dehydration. The not letting them compete with values of higher than 50% is because they have illegally doped their blood with either transfusions or EPO, both practices are banned.

      [Of course that is the reason. Any cyclist who would like to race without taking EPO is certain to lose, because any cyclist who prefers to take EPO will win, and it cannot be detected. But what can be detected is that hematocrit is a certain percentage, and so the Sport Federation (or whoever) has decided to oblige all of them be "cheaters" rather than to accept that they should all be legal. But that isn't the point of this discussion. What I want to point out is that the Sport Federation didn't set the upper limit at 45%, they set it at 50%, which is still safe. If they had set it at 45% they would have had to eliminate about 40% of the athletes. (Whatever % it is, I forgot, the area that falls under the bell curve from the median to 1 (or is it 2?) standard deviations away) because that is the number of athletes who would be above 45% (median) and below 50%. - Ellis]

      I just feel that a excessively high HCT can lead to problems, from blood being thicker and also the iron load.

      [I agree with you... what I am not sure I agree with is that *45%* is the point to start worrying. I would agree with 55%, perhaps. Of course, I am not a doctor, so it doesn't matter what I think anyways. - Ellis]

      Dr. Julio Garcia wrote:

      I think your EPO use in elderly anemic patients is warranted with simultaneous testosterone supplementation.

      My point is that Hg is good, but as your hematocrit or Hg count goes up, your blood gets thicker and more prone to clot, like in heart attacks.

      The ability of the body to carry more oxygen for example between a hemoglobin of 14 and 16 is minimal. So in older individuals who are anemic, EPO would be indicated along with judicious iron supplementation. In normal younger patients though there is an association between amount of iron and heart disease (probably one of the reasons some chelation people show improvement in heart disease).

      It is these younger people with acceptable Hg counts where donating blood may be helpful to eliminate some of their excess body iron. In older anemic patients they should not donate blood, just in the younger patients.

      I have all my male patiens on injectable testosterone donate blood whenever their Hemoglobin goes over 15. My point here would be not to donate blood if you are taking EPO, and only take EPO if needed and monitor your Hemoglobin to avoid it getting too high

      Ellis wrote:

      [Hello Dr. Garcia. You have your male patients donate blood to lower their iron after Hemoglobin goes above 15?

      Wouldn't it be better to take EDTA chelation, thus lower iron, and not lower the rest of the volume of blood (red blood cells, hemoglobin, white blood cells, etc) ?

      What level of hematocrit/hemoglobin do you consider is "high enough" and what level do you consider is "too high" and what level is "dangerous"?

      I point out that in La Paz, Bolivia, with an altitude of nearly 4000 meters above sea level (Mexico City is 2100 mts) it is common for hematocrit to be above 60%, and they are not having a national health crisis with heart attacks. And the normal distribution of hematocrit shows an average hematocrit of 45% about 5% of the population has 50% or more, and about 1% of the population has a hematocrit of about 55%. See charts (link) here: Charts of Hematocrit and Hemoglobin

      In bicycle racing, cyclists are tested for hematocrit, and if their hematocrit is 50% or below they can compete. If it is 51% or higher they are disqualified on health reasons, supposedly to protect them from an even higher hematocrit which comes as a result of dehydration during the cycling race.

      I like to have my own hematocrit about 50% or 51%. I have seen that it makes me have a lot of resistance when I get on the treadmill. Recently I walked fast, 1500 meters and finished running 500 meters quite fast, at the end of which I had a heartbeat of about 160, which is not at all bad (in fact, pretty good for an OLD MAN!)

      - Ellis]

    • jgarciamd@aol.com
      I think your EPO use in elderly anemic patients is warranted with simultaneous testosterone supplementation. My point is that Hg is good, but as your
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 30, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        I think your EPO use in elderly anemic patients is warranted with simultaneous testosterone supplementation.

        My point is that Hg is good, but as your hematocrit or Hg count goes up, your blood gets thicker and more prone to clot, like in heart attacks.

        The ability of the body to carry more oxygen for example between a hemoglobin of 14 and 16 is minimal. So in older individuals who are anemic, EPO would be indicated along with judicious iron supplementation. In normal younger patients though there is an association between amount of iron and heart disease (probably one of the reasons some chelation people show improvement in heart disease).

        It is these younger people with acceptable Hg counts where donating blood may be helpful to eliminate some of their excess body iron. In older anemic patients they should not donate blood, just in the younger patients.

        I have all my male patiens on injectable testosterone donate blood whenever their Hemoglobin goes over 15. My point here would be not to donate blood if you are taking EPO, and only take EPO if needed and monitor your Hemoglobin to avoid it getting too high

        [Hello Dr. Garcia. You have your male patients donate blood to lower their iron after Hemoglobin goes above 15?
        Wouldn't it be better to take EDTA chelation, thus lower iron, and not lower the rest of the volume of blood (red blood cells,
        hemoglobin, white blood cells, etc) ? What level of hematocrit/hemoglobin do you consider is "high enough" and what
        level do you consider is "too high" and what level is "dangerous"?

        I point out that in La Paz, Bolivia, with an altitude of nearly 4000 meters above sea level (Mexico City is 2100 mts) it is
        common for hematocrit to be above 60%, and they are not having a national health crisis with heart attacks. And the
        normal distribution of hematocrit shows an average hematocrit of 45% about 5% of the population has 50% or more, and about
        1% of the population has a hematocrit of about 55%. See charts (link) here: Charts of Hematocrit and Hemoglobin

        In bicycle racing, cyclists are tested for hematocrit, and if their hematocrit is 50% or below they can compete. If it
        is 51% or higher they are disqualified on health reasons, supposedly to protect them from an even higher hematocrit which comes
        as a result of dehydration during the cycling race.

        I like to have my own hematocrit about 50% or 51%. I have seen that it makes me have a lot of resistance when I get on
        the treadmill. Recently I walked fast, 1500 meters and finished running 500 meters quite fast, at the end of which I had a
        heartbeat of about 160, which is not at all bad (in fact, pretty good for an OLD MAN!)

        - Ellis]

      • jgarciamd@aol.com
        Well, I do not do chelaton but along with iron you can lose many other minerals in the treatment. As to the Bolivian people, I believe that they have other
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 1, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Well, I do not do chelaton but along with iron you can lose many other minerals in the treatment.

          [Yes, of course you can, but you can easily replace the good metals. After a chelation therapy you always drink minerals. - Ellis]

          As to the Bolivian people, I believe that they have other dietary and genetic factors which most likely keep them healthy, and they are at such an altitude that they need that Hct for oxygen transport.

          [No, there are many people of European descent living in La Paz, and their hematocrit is above 60% too, without any special problem. I am not suggesting that 60% is what I would like to aim for. I just want to point out that it seems like 60% hematocrit is not necessarily a dangerous hematocrit on an otherwise healthy person. For anybody who has a heart condition, of course I would suggest they should not live in La Paz, Bolivia. In fact, many people with a heart condition, even at the relatively low altitude of Mexico City, go to live at sea level.- Ellis]

          As far as the "too high," I would like the men to be below a Hct of 45, personally.

          [That is, for a normal healthy man, you like them to have an average hematocrit of 45%, which is normal and average for the population. O.K. I like 50%. Neither one seems to cause a health problem. But at 50% I feel I have more resistance, and I like the extra 10% (45% + 4.5%) oxygen for my brain. - Ellis]

          As to the cyclists being allowed to compete, the value of 50 is used as the high limit or normal, taking into consideration training and possible hemoconcentration from dehydration. The not letting them compete with values of higher than 50% is because they have illegally doped their blood with either transfusions or EPO, both practices are banned.

          [Of course that is the reason. Any cyclist who would like to race without taking EPO is certain to lose, because any cyclist who prefers to take EPO will win, and it cannot be detected. But what can be detected is that hematocrit is a certain percentage, and so the Sport Federation (or whoever) has decided to oblige all of them be "cheaters" rather than to accept that they should all be legal. But that isn't the point of this discussion. What I want to point out is that the Sport Federation didn't set the upper limit at 45%, they set it at 50%, which is still safe. If they had set it at 45% they would have had to eliminate about 40% of the athletes. (Whatever % it is, I forgot, the area that falls under the bell curve from the median to 1 (or is it 2?) standard deviations away) because that is the number of athletes who would be above 45% (median) and below 50%. - Ellis]

          I just feel that a excessively high HCT can lead to problems, from blood being thicker and also the iron load.

          [I agree with you... what I am not sure I agree with is that *45%* is the point to start worrying. I would agree with 55%, perhaps. Of course, I am not a doctor, so it doesn't matter what I think anyways. - Ellis]

          Dr. Julio Garcia wrote:

          I think your EPO use in elderly anemic patients is warranted with simultaneous testosterone supplementation.

          My point is that Hg is good, but as your hematocrit or Hg count goes up, your blood gets thicker and more prone to clot, like in heart attacks.

          The ability of the body to carry more oxygen for example between a hemoglobin of 14 and 16 is minimal. So in older individuals who are anemic, EPO would be indicated along with judicious iron supplementation. In normal younger patients though there is an association between amount of iron and heart disease (probably one of the reasons some chelation people show improvement in heart disease).

          It is these younger people with acceptable Hg counts where donating blood may be helpful to eliminate some of their excess body iron. In older anemic patients they should not donate blood, just in the younger patients.

          I have all my male patiens on injectable testosterone donate blood whenever their Hemoglobin goes over 15. My point here would be not to donate blood if you are taking EPO, and only take EPO if needed and monitor your Hemoglobin to avoid it getting too high

          Ellis wrote:

          [Hello Dr. Garcia. You have your male patients donate blood to lower their iron after Hemoglobin goes above 15?

          Wouldn't it be better to take EDTA chelation, thus lower iron, and not lower the rest of the volume of blood (red blood cells, hemoglobin, white blood cells, etc) ?

          What level of hematocrit/hemoglobin do you consider is "high enough" and what level do you consider is "too high" and what level is "dangerous"?

          I point out that in La Paz, Bolivia, with an altitude of nearly 4000 meters above sea level (Mexico City is 2100 mts) it is common for hematocrit to be above 60%, and they are not having a national health crisis with heart attacks. And the normal distribution of hematocrit shows an average hematocrit of 45% about 5% of the population has 50% or more, and about 1% of the population has a hematocrit of about 55%. See charts (link) here: Charts of Hematocrit and Hemoglobin

          In bicycle racing, cyclists are tested for hematocrit, and if their hematocrit is 50% or below they can compete. If it is 51% or higher they are disqualified on health reasons, supposedly to protect them from an even higher hematocrit which comes as a result of dehydration during the cycling race.

          I like to have my own hematocrit about 50% or 51%. I have seen that it makes me have a lot of resistance when I get on the treadmill. Recently I walked fast, 1500 meters and finished running 500 meters quite fast, at the end of which I had a heartbeat of about 160, which is not at all bad (in fact, pretty good for an OLD MAN!)

          - Ellis]

        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.