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GH, muscle, and fat and skin and bones

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  • gatorbudge@aol.com
    I hope someone on the group can answer this: I am a 26 yr old with low testosterone and low IGF-1 levels. I believe that I have received good gains from my
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 28, 2001
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      I hope someone on the group can answer this:

      I am a 26 yr old with low testosterone and low IGF-1 levels. I believe that I have received good gains from my VERY HIGH DISCIPLINE but nothing near what they should be.

      I thought about taking GH in small therapeutic amounts to further enhance my bodybuilding efforts. However, I have read on www.testosterone.com that GH has not been proven to help increase muscle and decrease fat.

      [It has been 100% proven to increase muscle and decrease fat, but not in
      the proportions that somebody like "Testosterone.com" would be happy with.
      There is absolutely no doubt that growth hormone will increase muscles and
      decrease fat. In Daniel Rudman's experiment on old men, which you should
      read because it is what started all of this (see experiment, here. This is
      basic, required reading:

      http://www.bio-corp.com/growthb.html )

      it increased muscle about 8% and decreased fat about 15%, in six
      months, and with a dose of about 3 i.u. per day, and NO ADDITIONAL EXERCISES
      or change in food habits.

      You might say: "But, I am not an old man." But if it did this to old men then it will also do it, with more reason, for a young man who does exercise and watches his diet. Whoever is giving you advice at "Testosterone.com" is probably would like if growth hormone gives you the results that testosterone will give you... but this is like asking a Ferrari to give you the results that a Mack Truck will give you, and then you complain that it didn't carry as many tons of cargo. They are different things. Growth Hormone is the Ferrari of anti-aging medicine. Growth hormone is a lot more expensive than testosterone, for sure, and it doesn't make you build as much muscle as testosterone, for sure. But it does many other things for your health that testosterone doesn't even begin to do, and it does it with zero side effects at sane doses. - Ellis]

      I have heard this several times and have read it in magazines. Apparently, when compared to a placebo....two exercising groups showed no difference in the lean muscle that was gained.

      [Show me the studies and I will show you ten other studies and hundreds of testimonials that say exactly the opposite. Somebody has to be mistaken. - Ellis]

      Is this true?? I have heard that GH works well when combined with testosterone but I am not that interested in taking the many T-derivatives on the black market... side effects are too risky.

      [In a low dose, and with care, you can also take testosterone and avoid any
      bad or long lasting side effects. It is also very good for your health, and
      it surely does help build muscles. I have very limited but very satisfactory
      experience with testosterone. The main object for me is to avoid side effects
      by not taking a dose that shoots my T levels too high, and to avoid high estradiol levels which are the cause of many of the side effects. This can be done, with proper care. See my page about my own experience with Testosterone.
      http://www.geocities.com/etoussier/testosterone.html - Ellis]

      Also......if one were to take GH for bodybuilding, what is the best way to take it for someone who works out first thing in the morning? I tend to eat my last meal at 7pm and then go to bed at 9. Not much time passes and it would be hard to take GH on an empty stomach before bedtime.

      [There seems to be no way you can take growth hormone incorrectly. You can take it at night before sleeping, or in the morning before breakfast, or before or after exercisisng; you can inject it sub-cutaneously or intravenously or intramuscular; you can inject it anywhere you prefer on your body (legs, stomach, are the usual place); you can inject in one dose, or two half doses per day. It works wonders with everybody, any way you do it. Just don't overdose. As Dr. Cranton says: just because a little is good, this doesn't mean more is better. Take the right dose. The only way to do that is by
      monitoring your results with a blood test and staying below a target IGF-1.
      (Here we go again... ) What that optimum target IGF-1 is, nobody knows for sure. I agree with Dr. Hughes' recommendation, 350 to 500. - Ellis]

      A conservative dosage and time interval suggestion would be appreciated.

      [1 i.u. per day the first month, in the morning before breakfast, every day.
      Probably increase to 1.5 or 2.0 i.u. after you take a blood test, and maybe
      eventually up to 3 i.u. per day. Do not exceed IGF-1 500. - Ellis]

      Thanks!!!
    • WinterQQ@aol.com
      In a message dated 01-07-01 18:53:51 EDT, you write:
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 1, 2001
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        In a message dated 01-07-01 18:53:51 EDT, you write:

        << Is this true?? I have heard that GH works well when combined with
        testosterone but I am not that interested in taking the many T-derivatives on
        the black market... side effects are too risky.
        >>

        Just from reading your post it would be unclear to me what the risks to
        taking testo would be for you. You state that you have low testosterone.
        Among the hard core body builders anything is considered to be low, but if you
        mean that medical testing shows that you are are truly on the low side then
        there are clear risks to NOT taking testosterone.

        You could have a goal of getting solidly up into a high normal or so range
        without bumping into all of the concerns that go with taking too much.

        Also, if you have a clinical need for testosterone, then I think that the
        issue of T-derivatives on the black market would not come into play.

        You have to decide what your approach is........medical and restoration or
        the bodybuilding "too much is not enough" approach.

        I have no experience with testosterone, other than the homemade variety, but
        these are the issues that I consider myself as I approach the day when I may
        supplement.

        Winter

        [Well said, precise, and to the point. Thank you, Winter. - Ellis]
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