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Re: [Rejuvenation] Soy isoflavones for lowering estrogen levels

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  • MARTY
    How much test were you taking, and for how long?? Marty ... From: dontwinvee protiy To: Rejuvenation@egroups.com
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 29, 2000
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      How much test were you taking, and for how long?? Marty

      -----Original Message-----
      From: dontwinvee protiy <donmoore@...>
      To: Rejuvenation@egroups.com <Rejuvenation@egroups.com>
      Date: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 2:41 PM
      Subject: [Rejuvenation] Soy isoflavones for lowering estrogen levels


      >I just had a little discovery that might be worth
      >sharing. I just finished a cycle of Test while on
      >rHGH. With 3 weeks to go my pecs were getting sore
      >underneath and to the outside of the nibble. I had
      >tried to get Arimidex for several weeks from a
      >pharmacy in Mexico, but it just wasn't happening.
      >They kept saying they had found a source and they
      >should have it in a few days, but a few days turned
      >into 5 weeks. The last week of the cycle my whole
      >body was sore, I felt lazy, and appeared to be holding
      >water. I had taken Clomid from the start, but
      >increased it in hopes of stopping the start of gyno.
      >
      >In desperation I was reading a body building magazine
      >and found a product claimed to stop gyno. The product
      >contained isoflavones and something called IC1 or
      >something. Not wanting to wait for it to arrive I
      >headed down to the local healthfood store. They had
      >lots of isoflavones in the women's section, but no IC1
      >so I bought a bottle of the iso's. I also read in one
      >of their books about iso's and it said it acted like a
      >weak estrogen and binded to receptors (just like the
      >info for Clomid, etc.). It also said it increased the
      >amount of estrogen being eliminated in the urine thus
      >lowering the amount in the body.
      >
      >I took six pills that night and in the morning, I had
      >no more soreness is the pecs. It is day 2 now and
      >there is a very noticeable improvement, hardly any
      >soreness at all. My energy even seems to be
      >improving.
      >
      >Does anyone know anything about using isoflavones to
      >stop gyno? Incase you didn����� ������t know arimidex cost from
      >$180 to $240 for 30 pills. If all this wasn't enough,
      >NBC Later Today Morning Show just did a segment, this
      >morning, on soy isoflavones to help prevent breast
      >cancer in women. You can read about it at
      >http://www.msnbc.com/news/423836.asp#BODY
      >
      >It would be great for some in the group who regular
      >monitor their blood hormones to try isoflavones and
      >see what happens to their estrogen levels.
      >
      >[Soy Isoflavones do bind weakly to estrogen receptors but I'm skeptical of
      >the claims you read in that magazine. I think it is very unlikely that
      isoflavones work as well as clomiphene citrate (Clomid) or tamoxifen
      (Nolvadex). -gts]
    • dontwinvee protiy
      Marty, I used 220 mg a week of test for the first 5 weeks and then went to 440 the last two weeks. The reason for the jump was mainly because I got tired of
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 1 7:55 PM
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        Marty,
        I used 220 mg a week of test for the first 5 weeks and
        then went to 440 the last two weeks. The reason for
        the jump was mainly because I got tired of trying to
        load a whole vile and then only use 1/2 (125 mg) at a
        time. I also used Primbolan Depot for the first 6
        weeks at 90 mg a week. The reason for the strange
        numbers 220 and 90 is that I took them every 5th day
        which when converted to a week is 220 and 90.

        -gts, You are probably right about isoflavones not
        working as well as Clomid or tamoxifen, but there are
        two reasons that makes me want to know more. The
        first is I was definetly having gyno symptoms
        (soreness in the nibble and breast area) even though I
        took Clomid from the start of the cycle. When I added
        isoflavones the soreness went away.

        The second, is the claim that isoflavones, besides
        binding to estrogen the receptors, also lowers the
        estrogen level in the body, by increasing the amount
        being expelled through urine. This claim, if true, I
        believe is something Clomid or tamoxifen cannot do. I
        have read where increased estrogen levels is one of
        the causes of energy loss in older men and or men who
        have cycled anabolic steroids, so the ability to lower
        these levels with an inexpensive product would be very
        beneficial.
        Don

        [I would like to think soy is as powerful an estrogen blocker as you hope it is, but I think the immediate remission of your sore nipples was probably a coincidence. Of course one mever knows and all people are different. -gts]

        --- MARTY <dragmart@...> wrote:
        > How much test were you taking, and for how long??
        > Marty
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: dontwinvee protiy <donmoore@...>
        > To: Rejuvenation@egroups.com
        > <Rejuvenation@egroups.com>
        > Date: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 2:41 PM
        > Subject: [Rejuvenation] Soy isoflavones for lowering
        > estrogen levels
        >
        >
        > >I just had a little discovery that might be worth
        > >sharing. I just finished a cycle of Test while on
        > >rHGH. With 3 weeks to go my pecs were getting sore
        > >underneath and to the outside of the nibble. I had
        > >tried to get Arimidex for several weeks from a
        > >pharmacy in Mexico, but it just wasn't happening.
        > >They kept saying they had found a source and they
        > >should have it in a few days, but a few days turned
        > >into 5 weeks. The last week of the cycle my whole
        > >body was sore, I felt lazy, and appeared to be
        > holding
        > >water. I had taken Clomid from the start, but
        > >increased it in hopes of stopping the start of
        > gyno.
        > >
        > >In desperation I was reading a body building
        > magazine
        > >and found a product claimed to stop gyno. The
        > product
        > >contained isoflavones and something called IC1 or
        > >something. Not wanting to wait for it to arrive I
        > >headed down to the local healthfood store. They
        > had
        > >lots of isoflavones in the women's section, but no
        > IC1
        > >so I bought a bottle of the iso's. I also read in
        > one
        > >of their books about iso's and it said it acted
        > like a
        > >weak estrogen and binded to receptors (just like
        > the
        > >info for Clomid, etc.). It also said it increased
        > the
        > >amount of estrogen being eliminated in the urine
        > thus
        > >lowering the amount in the body.
        > >
        > >I took six pills that night and in the morning, I
        > had
        > >no more soreness is the pecs. It is day 2 now and
        > >there is a very noticeable improvement, hardly any
        > >soreness at all. My energy even seems to be
        > >improving.
        > >
        > >Does anyone know anything about using isoflavones
        > to
        > >stop gyno? Incase you didn����� ������t know
        > arimidex cost from
        > >$180 to $240 for 30 pills. If all this wasn't
        > enough,
        > >NBC Later Today Morning Show just did a segment,
        > this
        > >morning, on soy isoflavones to help prevent breast
        > >cancer in women. You can read about it at
        > >http://www.msnbc.com/news/423836.asp#BODY
        > >
        > >It would be great for some in the group who regular
        > >monitor their blood hormones to try isoflavones
        > and
        > >see what happens to their estrogen levels.
        > >
        > >[Soy Isoflavones do bind weakly to estrogen
        > receptors but I'm skeptical of
        > >the claims you read in that magazine. I think it is
        > very unlikely that
        > isoflavones work as well as clomiphene citrate
        > (Clomid) or tamoxifen
        > (Nolvadex). -gts]
        >
        >
        >
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      • MARTY
        Gordon, It may be true. I heard from a friend that he just read an article in, Yes, Penthouse magazine that soy isoflavons helped prevent Aromitise (spelling)
        Message 3 of 3 , Jul 13 10:51 PM
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          Gordon,

          It may be true. I heard from a friend that he just read an article in, Yes,
          Penthouse magazine that soy isoflavons helped prevent Aromitise (spelling)
          in males that are converting Test to estrogen in excess.. Let's investigate
          this further..

          Marty (Yes, I've been gone for a while, But I'm back!)

          [Welcome back Marty. Gordon (gts) here. I don't dispute that phytoestrogens from soy bind to estrogen receptors -- that fact is well known. My point was that I would caution anyone who uses real aromatizable steroids in quantities large enough to cause gynocomastia from using a mild product like soy protein or isoflavones alone in an attempt to treat or prevent the gyno. I just don't believe soy can be as effective as tamoxifen (Nolvadex) or clomiphene citrate (Clomid) or anastrozole (Arimidex). I think there is simply too much at stake to take any chances when one is beginning to grow breasts from steroid use!

          As for anti-aromatase properties of soy... that is actually a different question separate from questions about its estrogenic properties. Does soy inhibit the aromatase enzyme to some degree? I can believe that it does, but I wouldn't use it in place of Arimidex for the same reason that I would not use it in place of Nolvadex or Clomid.

          If soy products really had pharmaceutical strength estrogen blocking and aromatase inhibiting properties, then regular unwitting folks who happen to eat large amounts of soy would experience drastic malfunction of their endocrine systems... in which case the FDA would have stepped in and pulled soy off the shelves years ago. -gts]

          -----Original Message-----Are you still using cypionate Gordon?? Ellis??

          From: MARTY <dragmart@...>
          To: Rejuvenation@egroups.com <Rejuvenation@egroups.com>
          Date: Saturday, July 01, 2000 12:23 PM
          Subject: Re: [Rejuvenation] Soy isoflavones for lowering estrogen levels


          >How much test were you taking, and for how long?? Marty
          >
          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: dontwinvee protiy <donmoore@...>
          >To: Rejuvenation@egroups.com <Rejuvenation@egroups.com>
          >Date: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 2:41 PM
          >Subject: [Rejuvenation] Soy isoflavones for lowering estrogen levels
          >
          >
          >>I just had a little discovery that might be worth
          >>sharing. I just finished a cycle of Test while on
          >>rHGH. With 3 weeks to go my pecs were getting sore
          >>underneath and to the outside of the nibble. I had
          >>tried to get Arimidex for several weeks from a
          >>pharmacy in Mexico, but it just wasn't happening.
          >>They kept saying they had found a source and they
          >>should have it in a few days, but a few days turned
          >>into 5 weeks. The last week of the cycle my whole
          >>body was sore, I felt lazy, and appeared to be holding
          >>water. I had taken Clomid from the start, but
          >>increased it in hopes of stopping the start of gyno.
          >>
          >>In desperation I was reading a body building magazine
          >>and found a product claimed to stop gyno. The product
          >>contained isoflavones and something called IC1 or
          >>something. Not wanting to wait for it to arrive I
          >>headed down to the local healthfood store. They had
          >>lots of isoflavones in the women's section, but no IC1
          >>so I bought a bottle of the iso's. I also read in one
          >>of their books about iso's and it said it acted like a
          >>weak estrogen and binded to receptors (just like the
          >>info for Clomid, etc.). It also said it increased the
          >>amount of estrogen being eliminated in the urine thus
          >>lowering the amount in the body.
          >>
          >>I took six pills that night and in the morning, I had
          >>no more soreness is the pecs. It is day 2 now and
          >>there is a very noticeable improvement, hardly any
          >>soreness at all. My energy even seems to be
          >>improving.
          >>
          >>Does anyone know anything about using isoflavones to
          >>stop gyno? In case you didnt know arimidex cost from
          >>$180 to $240 for 30 pills. If all this wasn't enough,
          >>NBC Later Today Morning Show just did a segment, this
          >>morning, on soy isoflavones to help prevent breast
          >>cancer in women. You can read about it at
          >>http://www.msnbc.com/news/423836.asp#BODY
          >>
          >>It would be great for some in the group who regular
          >>monitor their blood hormones to try isoflavones and
          >>see what happens to their estrogen levels.
          >>
          >>[Soy Isoflavones do bind weakly to estrogen receptors but I'm skeptical of
          >>the claims you read in that magazine. I think it is very unlikely that
          >isoflavones work as well as clomiphene citrate (Clomid) or tamoxifen
          >(Nolvadex). -gts]
          >
          >
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