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Study shows glutamine kills brain cells

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  • Greg Watson
    ... Two points: 1) Please post a medical paper from which you base your opinion that the glutamine dose used in the paper is a oral neurotoxin dose in a normal
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 1, 1999
      gts wrote:
      >
      > From: "gts" <gordonswobe@...>
      >
      > Kenji,
      >
      > Yes, and I agree with you and Greg that the BBB is there to protect us and
      > that it usually works for that purpose.
      >
      > However I disagree that it is capable of protecting us well when we
      > intentionally ingest a large amount of a neurotoxin precursor on an empty
      > stomach, as Greg's protocol requires.
      >
      > The real significance of the study I quoted here is that the neuron-killing
      > solution found to be effective in killing brain cells contained only the
      > precursor (glutamine) and not the actual excitotoxin (glutamate). It was
      > basically the same glutamine cocktail that Greg encourages people to drink
      > twice per day.

      Two points:

      1) Please post a medical paper from which you base your opinion that the
      glutamine dose used in the paper is a oral neurotoxin dose in a normal
      body. Anything else is your non medical opinion.

      2) Please post a medical paper which shows that the toxic dose used in
      the non BBB neuron test paper is is similar to the total dose from the
      protocol I use. Anything else is your non medical opinion.

      > -gts

      Hi Gordon,

      If you are right as to the toxicity of a 2g dose of Glutamine, Medline
      would be full of researchers wanting to be the first to document this
      Glutamine toxicity. Instead Medline is full of researchers reputing
      very positive results from Glutamine use.

      So they are ALL wrong and you are right?

      If you had actually read the Welbourne paper on my site, you would have
      seen that the Glutamine dose was administered over 20 minutes mixed in a
      cola drink, 45 minutes after a light breakfast.

      This is quite different to what you continue to push. The study shows
      that even after a breakfast and the Glutamine being ingested over 20
      minutes, quite strong GH release +420 % avg was recorded.

      There was NO surge of Glutamine to breakdown the BBB here (and no
      Medline data to support your off the wall theory that this happens). If
      you look at the data, in fact Glutamine rose slowly to a peak then
      reduced. I don't know where you get the idea that there is a rush of
      Glutamine into the body. There is NO medical data to support your
      theory. Quite the opposite actually.

      In my protocol the Glutamine is less than 20% of the total protocol and
      is taken with many anti-oxidants. You again seems to throw that fact
      away and mould the actual data to fit your very non medical theories.

      --
      Good Health & Long Life,
      Greg Watson,
      http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gowatson
    • Greg Watson
      ... Maybe No one is going to spend hard won research budgets (and having their fund managers question why they are investigation a dead subject) on something
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 1, 1999
        gts wrote:
        >
        > From: "gts" <gordonswobe@...>
        >
        > However I have not seen even a single study in medline or elswhere which
        > attempted to measure glutamate excitotoxicity from concentrated glutamine
        > supplements.

        Maybe No one is going to spend hard won research budgets (and having
        their fund managers question why they are investigation a dead subject)
        on something which has already been shown NOT to be a problem.

        Read the study #2 on my site. It very clearly says that there is NO
        toxicity problem and NO increase in Glutamate production.

        http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gowatson/GlutamineSafety2.html

        Gordon, please take 2 steps back, take a deep breath and re-read the
        paper.

        --
        Good Health & Long Life,
        Greg Watson,
        http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gowatson
      • gts
        The main reason you don t see such studies, Greg, is that mainstream physicians generally do not have any interest in prescribing daily glutamine supplements
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 2, 1999
          The main reason you don't see such studies, Greg, is that mainstream
          physicians generally do not have any interest in prescribing daily glutamine
          supplements to healthy people who have no deficiency in glutamine. There is
          therefore no need for researchers or physicians to be concerned about the
          possible long term effects of such supplementation. They don't know that
          some heehaw on the internet is prescribing concentrated glutamine
          supplements as a lifetime anti-aging regimen to any poor sap who happens to
          stumble by his web pages.

          -gts

          > > From: "gts" <gordonswobe@...>
          > >
          > > However I have not seen even a single study in medline or elswhere which
          > > attempted to measure glutamate excitotoxicity from concentrated
          glutamine
          > > supplements.
          >
          > Maybe No one is going to spend hard won research budgets (and having
          > their fund managers question why they are investigation a dead subject)
          > on something which has already been shown NOT to be a problem.
        • Dale R. & Karen A. Hersh
          Gordo, Don t know if I can go along on your reasoning here. Just because physicians don t prescribe something doesn t me there is no need for long term
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 3, 1999
            Gordo,

            Don't know if I can go along on your reasoning here. Just because physicians don't prescribe something doesn't me there is no
            need for long term research. They don't prescribe lots of thing like Ginko, SAMe, Vitamin C (etc.) and there is quite a bit of
            research being done on these and many other products (long term, i.e.) Many of the studies, like the Harvard study involving
            nurses look vary closely at diet, supplements and drugs.

            Take care

            Dale

            gts wrote:

            > From: "gts" <gordonswobe@...>
            >
            > The main reason you don't see such studies, Greg, is that mainstream
            > physicians generally do not have any interest in prescribing daily glutamine
            > supplements to healthy people who have no deficiency in glutamine. There is
            > therefore no need for researchers or physicians to be concerned about the
            > possible long term effects of such supplementation. They don't know that
            > some heehaw on the internet is prescribing concentrated glutamine
            > supplements as a lifetime anti-aging regimen to any poor sap who happens to
            > stumble by his web pages.
            >
            > -gts
            >
            > > > From: "gts" <gordonswobe@...>
            > > >
            > > > However I have not seen even a single study in medline or elswhere which
            > > > attempted to measure glutamate excitotoxicity from concentrated
            > glutamine
            > > > supplements.
            > >
            > > Maybe No one is going to spend hard won research budgets (and having
            > > their fund managers question why they are investigation a dead subject)
            > > on something which has already been shown NOT to be a problem.
            >
            > > Please help make it easy to subscribe to Rejuvenate. Send this URL to people you would like to subscribe to this discussion:
            >
            > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Rejuvenation
            >
            > I also highly recommend you should subscribe to AntiAging Research, which has a broader scope than Rejuvenation:
            >
            > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/AntiAgingResearch
          • LJG
            Agreed Dale. Shy of a year ago I was being seen by one of the top Neurologist at Duke and a Mayo Clinic Affiliation who subscribed to using Glutamine as well
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 4, 1999
              Agreed Dale.
              Shy of a year ago I was being seen by one of the top Neurologist at Duke and a
              Mayo Clinic Affiliation who subscribed to using Glutamine as well as other supplementation. I've read with interest the many views
              on this board and read the touted warnings of Glutamine brain kill. Nonetheless, who do you think I am going to place my trust in
              care - someone with no medical training other than a preoccupation to do engine searches or a qualified educated medical doctor -
              whom by the way is a Harvard graduate. I am fortunate that my insurance pick-ups the entire tab for my rhGH - otherwise I would be
              using Glutamine without hesitation. Please note that the above doctor was not the first MD to suggest Glutamine to me. In the last
              three years I have had at least 2... with the addition of an Endocrinologist.
              -joanna



              "Dale R. & Karen A. Hersh" wrote:

              > From: "Dale R. & Karen A. Hersh" <daleh@...>
              >
              > Gordo,
              >
              > Don't know if I can go along on your reasoning here. Just because physicians don't prescribe something doesn't me there is no
              > need for long term research. They don't prescribe lots of thing like Ginko, SAMe, Vitamin C (etc.) and there is quite a bit of
              > research being done on these and many other products (long term, i.e.) Many of the studies, like the Harvard study involving
              > nurses look vary closely at diet, supplements and drugs.
              >
              > Take care
              >
              > Dale
              >
              > gts wrote:
              >
              > > From: "gts" <gordonswobe@...>
              > >
              > > The main reason you don't see such studies, Greg, is that mainstream
              > > physicians generally do not have any interest in prescribing daily glutamine
              > > supplements to healthy people who have no deficiency in glutamine. There is
              > > therefore no need for researchers or physicians to be concerned about the
              > > possible long term effects of such supplementation. They don't know that
              > > some heehaw on the internet is prescribing concentrated glutamine
              > > supplements as a lifetime anti-aging regimen to any poor sap who happens to
              > > stumble by his web pages.
              > >
              > > -gts
              > >
              > > > > From: "gts" <gordonswobe@...>
              > > > >
              > > > > However I have not seen even a single study in medline or elswhere which
              > > > > attempted to measure glutamate excitotoxicity from concentrated
              > > glutamine
              > > > > supplements.
              > > >
              > > > Maybe No one is going to spend hard won research budgets (and having
              > > > their fund managers question why they are investigation a dead subject)
              > > > on something which has already been shown NOT to be a problem.
              > >
              > > > Please help make it easy to subscribe to Rejuvenate. Send this URL to people you would like to subscribe to this discussion:
              > >
              > > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Rejuvenation
              > >
              > > I also highly recommend you should subscribe to AntiAging Research, which has a broader scope than Rejuvenation:
              > >
              > > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/AntiAgingResearch
              >
              > > Please help make it easy to subscribe to Rejuvenate. Send this URL to people you would like to subscribe to this discussion:
              >
              > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Rejuvenation
              >
              > I also highly recommend you should subscribe to AntiAging Research, which has a broader scope than Rejuvenation:
              >
              > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/AntiAgingResearch
            • Paula Carnes
              ... physicians don t prescribe something doesn t me there is no ... Ginko, SAMe, Vitamin C (etc.) and there is quite a bit of ... Many of the studies, like the
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 4, 1999
                Dale wrote:
                > Don't know if I can go along on your reasoning here. Just because
                physicians don't prescribe something doesn't me there is no
                > need for long term research. They don't prescribe lots of thing like
                Ginko, SAMe, Vitamin C (etc.) and there is quite a bit of
                > research being done on these and many other products (long term, i.e.)
                Many of the studies, like the Harvard study involving
                > nurses look vary closely at diet, supplements and drugs.

                My doctor recommends supplements all the time. He has been doing this for
                years. He put me on V. C and V. E years ago. Now he uses St John's Wort
                instead of Prozac. He's a good doc.
                PJ
              • gts
                LJG, You may not realize that I m on your side here. I think it s great that you are taking glutamine under a doctor s supervision. No doubt your doctor
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 5, 1999
                  LJG,

                  You may not realize that I'm on your side here. I think it's great that you
                  are taking glutamine under a doctor's supervision. No doubt your doctor
                  believes you and your nervous system are in need of extra glutamine.

                  I believe all aminos are potentially hazardous when taken by uninformed
                  people in the absence of a doctor's supervision. I suspect your
                  Harvard-trained neurologist would agree.

                  -gts


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: LJG <glowackil001@...>
                  To: <Rejuvenation@onelist.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 2:33 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Rejuvenation] Study shows glutamine kills brain cells


                  > From: LJG <glowackil001@...>
                  >
                  > Agreed Dale.
                  > Shy of a year ago I was being seen by one of the top Neurologist at Duke
                  and a
                  > Mayo Clinic Affiliation who subscribed to using Glutamine as well as other
                  supplementation. I've read with interest the many views
                  > on this board and read the touted warnings of Glutamine brain kill.
                  Nonetheless, who do you think I am going to place my trust in
                  > care - someone with no medical training other than a preoccupation to do
                  engine searches or a qualified educated medical doctor -
                  > whom by the way is a Harvard graduate. I am fortunate that my insurance
                  pick-ups the entire tab for my rhGH - otherwise I would be
                  > using Glutamine without hesitation. Please note that the above doctor was
                  not the first MD to suggest Glutamine to me. In the last
                  > three years I have had at least 2... with the addition of an
                  Endocrinologist.
                  > -joanna
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > "Dale R. & Karen A. Hersh" wrote:
                  >
                  > > From: "Dale R. & Karen A. Hersh" <daleh@...>
                  > >
                  > > Gordo,
                  > >
                  > > Don't know if I can go along on your reasoning here. Just because
                  physicians don't prescribe something doesn't me there is no
                  > > need for long term research. They don't prescribe lots of thing like
                  Ginko, SAMe, Vitamin C (etc.) and there is quite a bit of
                  > > research being done on these and many other products (long term, i.e.)
                  Many of the studies, like the Harvard study involving
                  > > nurses look vary closely at diet, supplements and drugs.
                  > >
                  > > Take care
                  > >
                  > > Dale
                  > >
                  > > gts wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > From: "gts" <gordonswobe@...>
                  > > >
                  > > > The main reason you don't see such studies, Greg, is that mainstream
                  > > > physicians generally do not have any interest in prescribing daily
                  glutamine
                  > > > supplements to healthy people who have no deficiency in glutamine.
                  There is
                  > > > therefore no need for researchers or physicians to be concerned about
                  the
                  > > > possible long term effects of such supplementation. They don't know
                  that
                  > > > some heehaw on the internet is prescribing concentrated glutamine
                  > > > supplements as a lifetime anti-aging regimen to any poor sap who
                  happens to
                  > > > stumble by his web pages.
                  > > >
                  > > > -gts
                  > > >
                  > > > > > From: "gts" <gordonswobe@...>
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > However I have not seen even a single study in medline or elswhere
                  which
                  > > > > > attempted to measure glutamate excitotoxicity from concentrated
                  > > > glutamine
                  > > > > > supplements.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Maybe No one is going to spend hard won research budgets (and having
                  > > > > their fund managers question why they are investigation a dead
                  subject)
                  > > > > on something which has already been shown NOT to be a problem.
                  > > >
                  > > > > Please help make it easy to subscribe to Rejuvenate. Send this URL
                  to people you would like to subscribe to this discussion:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Rejuvenation
                  > > >
                  > > > I also highly recommend you should subscribe to AntiAging Research,
                  which has a broader scope than Rejuvenation:
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/AntiAgingResearch
                  > >
                  > > > Please help make it easy to subscribe to Rejuvenate. Send this URL to
                  people you would like to subscribe to this discussion:
                  > >
                  > > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Rejuvenation
                  > >
                  > > I also highly recommend you should subscribe to AntiAging Research,
                  which has a broader scope than Rejuvenation:
                  > >
                  > > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/AntiAgingResearch
                  >
                  > > Please help make it easy to subscribe to Rejuvenate. Send this URL to
                  people you would like to subscribe to this discussion:
                  >
                  > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Rejuvenation
                  >
                  > I also highly recommend you should subscribe to AntiAging Research, which
                  has a broader scope than Rejuvenation:
                  >
                  > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/AntiAgingResearch
                  >
                  >
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