Re: 4 i.u.'s every other day, or split up?
- Hello Ellis,
I was told that rather than administering a 2iu gh dose every day that
I should administer a 4 iu dose every other day. I haven't started using gh
whatsover yet but I was wondering what your thoughts were on this matter?
[According to Dr. Cranton, one i.u. is supposed to be the equivalent of what
a young man's pituitary releases in one day. That is the definition. I
suspect that in fact one i.u. is less than that amount, but that was what
they tried to determine... I know that 1 i.u. is a good dose, because I and
many persons on this board have reported many good benefits from this dose.
We know that the pituitary releases GH when we are sleeping and when we do
strenuous exercise, when insulin is low, and also if you are starving... So
we try to take a replacement dose of rHGH in a way that we imitate the
natural pattern of the pituitary, as much as possible. Even if 1 i.u. is
less than the true amount that the pituitary releases, it seems to me that
4 i.u. is probably more than the pituitary releases (but I might be mistaken)... but even if it releases that much in one day, it probably doesn't
release that much in one pulse, but in several.
I don't think it makes sense to experiment to see what might happen if you
exceed the pituitary's natural dose... it probably isn't good...
So... if you were to take 2 i.u.'s per day, I would recommend that you might
take it in two half doses (about one i.u. in the early morning before
breakfast, and one i.u. late at night before going to sleep. Some people
would split that up 60%/40% I don't know which way, but it probably doesn't
make a great difference...)
But if you were to take 4 i.u.'s every other day, you might be exceeding the natural amount that your pituitary would release on one day, and that probably is not a good idea. What would be the reason to want to take 3 injections
rather than 6? Are you in a great hurry, and don't have time? Or do you
assume it hurts less? (It hardly "hurts" at all, either way)
So I recommend that it is better to take 2 i.u.'s every day, (maybe even
splitting those 2 i.u.'s in two doses,) rather than 4 i.u.'s every two days.
Do this at least until somebody proves to your satisfaction that I am wrong,
and 4 i.u.'s in one day every 2 days is just as good as 2 i.u.'s every day.
I personally don't want to experiment on myself to find out, (In fact
I could be taking 3 i.u.'s every other day instead of 1.5 i.u. every day, but I
don't do it...) and I don't recommend you find out either, because it might be bad news... but perhaps somebody already has experience with this and can tell it to us.
(see Dr. Cranton's discussion here:
>From: Robert Burtis <beachcomer@...>
>To: AntiAgingResearch <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>CC: Rejuvenation <Rejuvenation@onelist.com>
>Subject: [Rejuvenation] The HGH For Fun!
>Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:13:09 -0500
>From: Robert Burtis <beachcomer@...>
>Yes, folks, step right up!
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>[Off topic, but let's let Bob Burtis show us what he has
>for us today, given that he has had so much for us on many
>other occasions. Anyways, I want to laugh, too.
>"Save and Approve" - Ellis]
>>Please help make it easy to subscribe to Rejuvenate. Send this URL to
>people you would like to subscribe to this discussion:
>I also highly recommend you should subscribe to AntiAging Research, which
>has a broader scope than Rejuvenation:
- Dear Ellis,
I have been on the Saizen (serono) brands of rHGH for about 2 weeks and as I am a 60 yr old weight lifter 5'9' 180# I found that I got an immediate surge of energy especially while working out and after. (do you think Saizen is
better, the same, or inferior to other brands - which is the best?)
[I can't tell which is better, because I haven't ever used Saizen... I
use Humatrope, by Eli Lilly, because in Mexico City it costs much less than
Saizen, which is made in Switzerland... I suppose that they should both be
identical, since growth hormone is growth hormone and cannot be different.
Both are 191 amino acids... both should be identical. I know that Norditropin
made in Denmark by Novo Nordisk seems to be identical, because I have used it
when the less expensive Humatrope is out of stock. Cost aside, I am almost
certain they would be identical.]
I use 3/4 IU morning anf night. It is the only sensible dose and that is what my doctor uses on himself and recommends.
[That is 1.5 i.u.'s per day... why do you say this is the only sensible dose?
After one month your doctor will probably ask you to take an IGF-1 test, and
based on that result you will probably decide to remain the same, or adjust up or down. I'm not certain that there is any dose that is the most sensible for everybody, and one i.u. seems like a good standard dose to start with... -Ellis]
He said I would also find that I need less sleep. Did you notice this? I have trouble sleeping more than 5 or 6 hrs a night.
[I sleep very well. I'm not sure if I need LESS sleep than before I started
taking growth hormone (in June, 1998, 16 months ago) I think it is probably
about the same... but I do think I sleep more calmly and restfully. - Ellis]
I am also concered as I may have read it in one of your great reports that
"cortisol" production is a factor or undesireable side effect from using in
some HGH or is it all hgh that causes this? I noticed that if you use GHB
(the only true GH precuser) they warn you not to use it, if you have cushings
[I said this? Maybe I wrote it incorrectly or you understood me incorrectly.
I might have said that cortisol increases with age. I do NOT know that cortisol increases as a side effect of taking rHGH, and I would GUESS that
cortisol decreases. Why would I guess this? Because my experience is that
everything goes towards what it was when we were younger, and so cortisol would
go towards that, ie, less. I don't know about GHB and Cushing's disease... I
know nothing about Cushing's disease. Please tell us what you know about this.
Also, tell us why you say that GHB is the only true GH precursor, because that
is interesting for others to know. - Ellis]
I wonder if you could further elaborate on this, why you believe that the
humatrope is better and does not produce the cortisol, or as much in your
body, how you wouild test for this undesireable effect ( It is my
understading ,elementary speaking that we are talking about insulin
resistance and it's ramifications, and that all HGH can do this.)
[I can't answer the question because I don't know the answer. I don't
think I ever said Humatrope is better than any other brand, but if I said it,
I meant that it is the one I use because it is excellent and the least expensive, in Mexico City. Maybe in the United States there is another
that is the least expensive, but I think they are all identical quality. I don't know how they test for cortisol. That is a very interesting question. Does anybody know how this is done? - Ellis]
Thanks for you most excellent works and knowledge sharing.
[Thanks for saying so. It is good to know you think I am doing a good
job. I enjoy sharing my thoughts and knowledge. I also think it is
important that we, who know about something that is very good for our
health, should tell others, and teach others, because it is also good
for their health. Mike, could you please set a good example and fill in
and send us the questionaire that Anthony put together for us? This way
you can share your experience with others. I posted the questionaire here:
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5000/questionaire.html - Ellis]
P.S. I also use testosterone cream, which I rub on once a night as I have a
young wife, and a few demanding girl friends.
[Sounds like you're having a great time! Congratulations to you. - Ellis]
- Ellis, go to the site http://www.quality counts.com/fp/grinch.html
this explains cortisol and cushings disease.
also very important: http://www.qualitycounts.com/hghmex.html
GHB is Gamma hydroxybutyric acid, apparently it is a somatrophin stimulator
that will put you in a deep sleep
Alcover is the brand in Mexico. Can you get me a price on this?
let me know what you think of all this info.