>Ellis, you harm your credibility by insisting there are positively
>no adverse side effects to using all the things you advocate and
>sell, and by ridiculing everyone who points out some of these things.
C. Marley: And your previous post is a perfect example. You deny
even the possibility that any of these hormones have any adverse
Even water has adverse effects. I have used all of the products
you mentioned on myself and patients, and acknowledge their
benefits, but also acknowledge their potential harmful effects.
In using ANYTHING there is always a risk : benefit ratio to consider.
By denying one half of the ratio, you do yourself and HGH a
Ellis: Dr. Marley, you didn't answer any of the questions I asked.
Whether you intended it or not, you are debating with me, and in
a debate you must answer the questions of your opponent, or you
will lose the debate. There are 5000 persons reading what you
answer and you are a doctor and I am not. So please answer the
I did not deny the possibility that any of these hormones have
any adverse side effects in my previous post since I AGREED with
you that insulin can be deadly and that testosterone can
cause testicular atrophy.
But you didn't answer my questions about HGH and EPO.
I will ask my questions again. If you won't answer the questions,
then I will answer the questions in another post.
1. You wrote: "HGH causes elevated blood sugar...it is not a
panacea with no adverse effects."
My question is: Please be specific: How high is blood sugar
elevated with growth hormone? What dose of growth hormone
causes this elevation of blood sugar?
For example: If I am not a diabetic and my blood glucose is 90 and
I take a dose of 2 iu of HGH, to what level will my blood glucose
And if my blood glucose is 150, to what level will my blood glucose
rise with a dose of 2 iu?
Please give us a specific example of an adverse side effect caused
by the increase of blood glucose caused by 1 to 3 iu of growth
I will accept "diabetes 2" as an answer, and you win this point if
you can show us one case of a person who got diabetes 2 caused by
3 iu or less of HGH.
I CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW ME ONE PERSON WHO HAS EVER GOTTEN
DIABETES-2 DUE TO THE ELEVATION OF BLOOD GLUCOSE CAUSED BY TAKING
3 iu or LESS OF HGH.
I am not a rich person so I OFFER $1000 TO YOU OR TO ANY DOCTOR
or TO ANYBODY AT ALL WHO CAN SHOW US AN EXAMPLE AND PROVE IT...
(But you deserve $1,000,000 if you can show us proof...)
(Anybody who wants to add to my $1000 reward, let me know and
I will add it on. I say you cannot lose, so join me... let's
get this point straightened out...)
2. You wrote: "EPO can cause some really serious and life
threatening effects, and should be used only under medical
monitoring for specific disease conditions, and never on
Please give us an example of the really serious and life
threatening effects of EPO. Tell us what dose of EPO causes
these life threatening effects. Please explain why EPO is
especially bad for a healthy person and why a healthy person
should never use EPO.
I CHALLENGE YOU TO GIVE US ONE EXAMPLE of ONE HEALTHY PERSON
anywhere in the world who used EPO to raise red blood cells from
ANY point less than 45% hematocrit to 45% hematocrit, and had a
really serious and life threatening effect because of this.
Again, I will offer $1000 to you or to any doctor or anybody
else who can demonstrate with proof that RAISING hematocrit to
45% with EPO caused a healthy person a really serious and life
(Again, anybody who wants to add on to my reward, let me know.
Again I say you cannot lose, since 45% is AVERAGE HEMATOCRIT
in a healthy adult, and it would be inconceivable that raising
red blood cells from a less healthy level to a more healthy
level can cause a bad side effect... much less a "really serious
and life threatening problem...")
Tell us why doctors will not prescribe EPO to anybody with
anemia unless that person has LESS than 30% hematocrit, or 10%
hemoglobin. Show us why it is so dangerous to use EPO to
raise red blood cells to 45%.
SHOW US ONE CASE. We are all waiting.
3. and 4.
I will not ask any questions about your points three and four,
about insulin and about testosterone. I will say here that I
AGREE with you that insulin can cost you your life if not closely
monitored, but I wish that you would acknowledge that insulin
can be very beneficial to non-diabetics if used correctly.
I do not agree that insulin is any more dangerous in people who
do not have insulin resistance, ie, non-diabetics, than in
I am a non-diabetic and I have injected insulin 20,000 times
in 9 years, and I consider insulin to be just as good for me as
it is for a diabetic, and just as dangerous for me as for a
And I will not ask any questions about testosterone, since I
acknowledged in my reply to your point 4 that testosterone can
cause testicular atrophy.
So, just clear up what you said about HGH causing elevated
blood glucose, and please show us why EPO should never be used in
a healthy person.
Thanks for writing.
_______________________ Previous Post
* * * Ellis, you harm your credibility
Ellis, you harm your credibility by insisting there are positively
no adverse side effects to using all the things you advocate and
sell, and by ridiculing everyone who points out some of these things.
The fact is that EVERYTHING has adverse effects for some people.
All medical decisions to use or not use any pharmeceutical are made
on a risk : benefit comparison. To insist that there are no risks
at all to using HGH, insulin, EPO and the like is to deny fact and
leave yourself open to being regarded as a "fringe" fanatic, or
FACT: HGH causes elevated blood sugar, as does cortisol.
That does not diminish it's benefits. However it is not a
panacea with no adverse effects.
FACT: EPO can cause some really serious and life threatening effects,
and should be used only under medical monitoring for specific
disease conditions, and never on healthy people.
FACT: Insulin can cost you your life if not closely monitored, and
is most dangerous in people who do not have insulin resistence -
FACT: Testosterone can cause testicular atrophy and sterility.
Does acknowleging the truth of these facts mean that these products
should not be used? Absolutely not. Only that they should be used
with full knowlege of all the potential risks and benefits.
Ellis: Hello Dr. Marley...
First, I want to make clear that I buy and sell growth hormone
and EPO in Mexico, 100% legally.
And I have THREE doctors who are avid followers of using hormones,
and I refer my prospective customers to my doctors... and I TEACH
my customers to use everything correctly. They all take blood
tests and monitor results.
Second, I don't tell anybody to use the products I use. I tell them
why I use them, and how I use them, and I tell them the results...
But I don't tell them to use them. I lead by example, if they want
to learn... most people do not see the example and are afraid of
hormones. That is their privilege, and their bad fortune.
But the ones who learn from me get no bad side effects, and they
ara all very happy with the benefits.
Third, I do not insist that hormones have no side effects...
I know very well what the side effects are... they are no big
deal if you don't overdose...
And I know how to avoid or reverse any side effect, by any hormone
that I use.
And... I also know that NOT using HGH or testosterone or insulin or
EPO also has very WELL KNOWN bad side effects.
I will copy and paste your FACTS above, and I will answer each of
1. Dr. Marley: "FACT: HGH causes elevated blood sugar, as does
cortisol. That does not diminish it's benefits. However it is
not a panacea with no adverse effects."
Ellis: Please be specific: what level of high blood sugar do you
attribute is caused by growth hormone? Please give us a specific
example of an adverse side effect caused by 1 to 3 iu of growth
Please document it. Please tell us if it was permanent damage,
or if it was reversed by lowering the dose.
I especially would like to know if you can SHOW US a case where
growth hormone at 1 to 3 iu per day caused ACROMEGALIA, or CANCER,
or DIABETES, or GROWTH OF INTERNAL ORGANS, OR UNPROPORTIONAL GROWTH
OR HANDS OR FEET. PLEASE DOCUMENT IT.
An apple also causes "elevated blood sugar"... and I will bet
that one large apple will cause blood sugar to rise higher (to
about 130 mg/dl) than a double dose of growth hormone, 2 iu, which
is more than most persons use.
In any case, the trick is to eat the apple and get the benefit of
the apple, and know how to bring down or prevent the "higher blood
In my blood sugar control, I define "high blood sugar" as
anything higher than 100 mg/dl. But it is quite "normal" for
blood sugar to rise to 160 and 180 in non-diabetics.
One glass of orange juice or one plate of spaghetti or one
baked potato will raise blood sugar far higher (to 160 or more)
than one dose of growth hormone.
I will not waste everybody's time repeating the list of benefits
of using growth hormone, but I will point out that in 11 years
and more than 10,000 posts, NOBODY has ever written to me or to
Rejuvenation to say that they got diabetes due to high blood sugar
from taking growth hormone.
Nor has anybody ever reported "acromegalia" or that HGH caused a
small unknown cancerous tumor to grow out of control, or to say that
their heart or other internal organs had grown larger, or to say that
their hands or feet or nose or chin or forehead or any part of their
body has grown bigger.
So... scratch "elevated blood sugar..." It is not a sufficient
reason for me or anybody to pass on the many benefits of using HGH.
And if you pass on the benefits of growth hormone, YOU WILL GET
KNOWN SIDE EFFECTS. - Ellis
2. Dr. Marley: "FACT: EPO can cause some really serious and life
threatening effects, and should be used only under medical monitoring
for specific disease conditions, and never on healthy people."
Ellis: Dr. Marley, with all due respect, you don't know what
you are saying, but you say it anyways.
Again: Please show me ANY CASE of a "really serious and life
threatening effect" when hematocrit is RAISED TO LESS THAN 60%.
(I am not recommending raising hematocrit to 60%... I just want
to see a case where somebody used or abused EPO to raise
hematocrit to LESS than 60%, and got a serious problem.)
And show me ANY CASE where A HEALTHY ADULT had trouble if his
hematocrit was raised to 45%!!!
EPO is an extremely good hormone which is greatly feared by most
doctors for no good reason. EPO will NOT cause ANY life threatening
disease or condition IN A HEALTHY person unless hematocrit is ABOVE
60%... MY hematocrit has been between 52% and 55% for NINE YEARS,
non-stop, and I FEEL GREAT... and I have not had any trouble...
I am not saying that my experience is PROOF of anything... but it
is proof that one person has not had any trouble, and I don't know
anybody of the dozens who have written to me who has had any trouble,
So MAYBE it is NOT true that EPO is VERY DANGEROUS. In any case,
SHOW ME that it is dangerous.
And I have received MANY MANY e-mails from persons who raised
hematocrit to 45% after having it at 40% or lower, and they all
say they felt MUCH BETTER, too.
Many doctors, including you, fear that EPO might cause serious and life
threatening effects. The only "specific disease condition"
that they think is valid for using EPO is after chemotherapy for
cancer patients, or for end stage kidney disease...
But they neglect to treat patients with ANEMIA with EPO.
And anemia is an extremely serious and MIND THREATENING disease,
because LACK OF OXYGEN CAUSES LOSS OF NEURONS... Senility...
Average hematocrit at age 50 is 45%. Doctors will not help a
patient whose brain is starving from lack of oxygen at 40% or
less unless hematocrit is BELOW 30%...
30% hematocrit means ONE THIRD LESS OXYGEN flowing through their
brains and body before doctors decide they should act.
The doctor prescribes OXYGEN, but the oxygen can do nothing if
there are no red blood cells to carry it.
And if they act, they only raise hematocrit to slightly above 30%.
This lack of action, too little and too late, causes SENILITY in
their patients, which could have been AVOIDED if hematocrit had
been raised to 45% before loss of neurons occured.
I repeat: DOCTORS FEAR and FAILURE TO USE EPO CAUSES SENILITY IN
THE PATIENTS THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO HELP. - Ellis
Dr. Marley: "FACT: Insulin can cost you your life if not closely
monitored, and is most dangerous in people who do not have insulin
resistence - i.e. non-diabetics"
Ellis: I am a non-diabetic, and I have injected insulin about
20,000 times in 9 years, and I do not have insulin resistance.
My "insulin" in blood tests is off the charts... below "3"
(whatever), on a scale of 3 to 25, where "25" means very much
insulin resistance, and 3 is "like an athlete"... and I am not
So excuse me, but again I have to say that you don't know what
you are saying, but you say it anyways.
The ONLY WAY YOU CAN DICTATE ABOUT INSULIN TO ME is if YOU will
inject insulin into yourself at least one time... learn to use
insulin... then tell me about it.
Until then, I really think it is better if you LEARN from me,
instead of lecturing to me. I know you know nothing correct
about using insulin, except you are correct that it can be deadly.
I AGREE with you that it can be deadly if it is used incorrectly,
but that is how DOCTORS TEACH THEIR DIABETIC PATIENTS to use
An automobile can cost you your life if you do not know how to
use it. A gun can cost you your life if you do not know how to
use a gun.
But a car, and a gun, and insulin, can be very good for you
if you learn to use them correctly.
And it is very easy to learn to use insulin correctly...
But DON'T LEARN FROM MOST DOCTORS, because they talk about
"balancing the carbohydrate load" and other nonsense and bad
information that CAUSES hypoglycemia because of an overdose
I HAVE SEEN diabetic patients inject HUGE amounts of insulin,
(50 iu Humulin "R"!!!) which I know is a mistake... because it
is a deadly dose unless balanced with the correct upward force
(ie, an overdose of carbohydrates...)
But they injected these huge doses because their doctor didn't
teach them not to EAT HUGE DOSES OF CARBOHYDRATES too. So they
"balance the carbohydrate load" which might cause severe
hypoglycemia, and even death.
And I AGREE 100%, insulin can cost you your life IF YOU DO NOT
KNOW HOW TO USE IT...
This means you have to know perfectly well what happens when you
inject ONE unit of insulin. It has to be CLOSELY MONITORED, at
least until you know perfectly well what is going to happen to
blood glucose after you inject.
HYPOGLYCEMIA IS CAUSED BY AN OVERDOSE OF INSULIN. An overdose
happens because THE DOCTOR didn't teach the patient how not
To begin with, do not eat an overdose of carbohydrates.
I cannot overdose with 1 iu of insulin, if my blood glucose is 70
mg/dl., even if I do not eat. I have tested it many times.
And 3 iu can cause mild hypoglycemia if my blood glucose was
below 100, and I forgot to eat. But that virtually never happens.
If my blood glucose is below 100, I do not take 3 iu insulin.
I only take 3 iu when I know where my blood glucose is, and I am
going to eat.
INSULIN IS EXTREMELY GOOD FOR ME when I use it correctly, which
is every time except the few times I made a mistake. (I made
mistakes because there was nobody to teach me...)
In fact, in my very well-founded opinion, insulin is THE SINGLE
MOST IMPORTANT hormone to promote long term good health, because
it lowers blood sugar for a few hours each time (until we eat
again...) which is CRUCIAL for the circulatory system...
(note: My opinion is "well-founded" because I have used growth
hormone nearly every single day for nearly 12 years, and I have
used testosterone for 9 years, and I have used EPO for 8 years,
and I have injected insulin every single day for 9 years...)
And the circulatory system is crucial to carry blood to every cell
in the body.
Any cell without blood (water and oxygen and nutrients) WILL DIE.
And if the circulatory system is gummy with SUGAR, then some
capillaries will get blocked up, and SOME CELLS WILL DIE.
That is called: aging...
So the CORRECT DOSE OF INSULIN (0, 1, 2, or 3 iu Humulin R)
at the right time is more beneficial than growth hormone, in my
But it can definitely be dangerous, and it should be used with
IT IS THE PATIENT'S RESPONSIBILITY, AS IT IS MY RESPONSIBLITY
FOR ME TO USE INSULIN CORRECTLY. (But I hope he learned from
And "according to Ellis" insulin also delays or prevents the
beta cells of the pancreas from "burning out" sooner...
INSULIN IS ESPECIALLY GOOD FOR DIABETICS, but millions of
diabetics around the world DO NOT use insulin BECAUSE THEIR
DOCTORS ARE SCARED to prescribe insulin, until their diabetes
advances so much that nothing else works...
BIG MISTAKE. They should have used insulin YEARS before.
That is because the doctor DOESN'T KNOW how to use insulin, and
that is because they have not injected insulin into themselves,
not even ONE TIME in their entire life...
But they are fast to tell diabetics how to care for their
diabetes with metformin or gila monster saliva or with cinnamon
or apples, etc, but not with insulin because they are SCARED of
insulin. They think it is A TRIUMPH if their patient does NOT
There is nothing to be scared of, except hypoglycemia, which
happens because DOCTORS DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE INSULIN themselves.
So they can't teach their patients how to use insulin correctly.
I have injected insulin about 20,000 times since I began to use
it in 2002. I have had mild hypo-glycemia three times... two times
when I was learning... one time, to about 50 because I injected
insulin and then I walked to a restaurant... mistake...
And one time, serious hypoglycemia, because I doubled up with
Lantus and also Humulin "R" and I sat down at a computer and I
forgot to eat.
BIG MISTAKE! I will never do that again...
I might have died, but I didn't. My blood glucose got to about
30, and doctors lower blood glucose below 30 in the insulin
tolerance test. I didn't faint, and I didn't fall, but I
felt dizzy and I knew I had to eat immediately.
I agree, I should not have blood glucose 30 without a doctor
watching me. But I never learned to use insulin from a doctor,
because when I began to use insulin every doctor in the world,
and even I, thought using insulin is not for me.
(I injected insulin as an experiment, to be able to answer a
post on Rejuvenation... but I got such a good result: blood
sugar between 70 and 90 mg/dl instead of 105, that I never
stopped taking insulin.)
So I know that with 20,000 shots of insulin and 25,000 blood
glucose tests I know much more than most doctors do about using
But I am VERY GRATEFUL to the doctors on Rejuvenation who
cautioned me when I began to use insulin, and who told me
which blood tests to take ("insulin") to measure insulin
I had to learn the hard way, and I made my mistakes along the way...
But I wanted to learn to use it, because I saw immediately that I
was getting very good results... much better than I would have
As for monitoring... I have taken perhaps 25,000 blood glucose
tests in 9 years, including 3 today, now 9:53 A.M. That is
more times monitoring blood glucose than I have injected insulin.
I don't recommend that anybody should learn to use insulin
without studying and learning from my experience first. I
teach everything I know about using insulin FREE, and I do not
Ask Dr. Bernstein his opinion of what other doctors say about
how to treat diabetes... I know doctor Bernstein is right, because
I agree with him on everything about diabetes and using insulin.
He has also taken many thousands of blood glucose tests, and he
has injected insulin many thousands of times, and his patients
So he is an authority on the topic... I am his student, and I am
an authority, too... I see eye to eye with him on this. He is
the ONLY doctor I listen to, about using insulin, because he is
the only one that I think is correct. - Ellis
Dr. Marley: "FACT: Testosterone can cause testicular atrophy and
Ellis: I agree that testosterone has side effects. I have used
testosterone on and off for about 9 years... Testicular atrophy has
happened to me...
But "testicular atrophy" is not the worst of side effects, since
it is only esthetic... Everything else works well, and testicular
atrophy can be reversed (so far, at least...) with HCG.
It is too bad that I have to stop using testosterone for a few
months sometimes. HCG is good, but HCG does not make me feel as
good and powerfully potent as testosterone does.
But if I had not had testosterone and testicular atrophy, I would
have forgotten what it is like to be a dirty old man... and frankly,
I prefer to be a dirty old man rather than to be assexual.
I don't know if I am sterile, but I think I am not sterile...
In any case, I am not trying to fertilize anybody... not yet...
So... I agree with you about testosterone... It is a package
deal... it comes with benefits, and it comes with side effects.
The worst of the side effects (high estrogen in a male body,
which causes prostate problems, gynecomastia, perhaps cancer, and
the worst: a loss of libido!) can be avoided with an anti-aromatase
which prevents testosterone from converting to estrogen.
Thanks for writing. Please send us the cases of very bad
side effects for HGH using 1 to 3 iu per day, and EPO with
hematocrit in a healthy adult less than 60%.
In the meantime you can read the testimonials of persons with
anemia who were first denied EPO by doctor ignorance, and who have
written to me about the positive effects that EPO had on them.
I remind you that the people who write to me are all over the
world. You should not assume that they are in the United States,
or that I sold EPO to them. EPO is sold legally in many countries
of the world, including Mexico where I live, without a prescription.
And if you need a prescription it is not difficult to convince a
doctor who has used EPO or has prescribed it to patients for ANEMIA,
and seen the great results... ANEMIA is not an accepted reason to
use EPO in the U.S.A. unless their hematocrit is below 30% or
hemoglobin below 10%... but persons with anemia in the U.S. suffer
because of this, no matter what the guideline for doctors say.
Three stars for this post, of course... and the next one, where
Dr. Marley will send us the cases of dangerous side effects that
occurred in persons who did not abuse of HGH or EPO but got bad
side effects anyways.