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Re: Markus Ludes might know...

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  • Markus
    Hello Everybody with a new yahoo adresse I finaly got access to this group again. today its a bit late for much news and answeres, but next days I am here to
    Message 1 of 32 , Feb 13, 2011
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      Hello Everybody

      with a new yahoo adresse I finaly got access to this group again.

      today its a bit late for much news and answeres, but next days I am here to give you some answeres.
      I was all the time able to read postings, so let me give you some infos to your latest postings of the discussion about the LOMO Lenses


      1, Infos from a scilled Imager who performed several tests :
      --------------------------------------------------------
      some good test results for you, regarding the LOMO 80/480. With proper spacers, the following flattener / reducers are sharp to the corner of the 35 full frame,

      - TS2 zero power, for testing distance of 50x focal length, image optimal at ~112mm backfocus
      - Sky Watcher ED80 0.85x reducer
      - BORG #7887 0.85x reducer a little sharper than SkyWatcher.
      - Televue 0.8x (not as good, but still quite sharp, better than FSQ85, also the T2 key hole have serious vignetting).

      Astrotech don't work well even with thick spacers.

      ------------------------------------------

      LOMO design History :
      The LOMO triplets of Today using K8-Ok4-K8 , K8 is Russian BK7 and when the older design changed to this one, we, TMB and Me found no diffrence at all in the colorcorrection between old and new, latest version.

      before TMB came into the play I got contact to LZOS via a company in germany , who was a russian and whom I asked if he know sources for making apos in Russia. LZOS have had that time indeet own designed apos, triplet 80/600 fluorite and 150/900 triplet Fluorite. I bought them. They showed fantastic colorcorrection, but poor zonal deffects, poor turned edges and more due a very bad design. LZOS did that time, not know what amateurs want and pushed in here design only the on-axis colorcorrection , nothing else. Then I contacted TMB and we talked and we desited to work together, he makes the design, I arrange the productions. Since USA was the main interested market and US customers knew Thomas Back already as critical observer and friend of Roland Christen, we decited to call the apos TMB instead of APM or APM/TMB. It worked and it was our together start

      In the very beginning , 1998, when I contacted first time LOMO ( before TMB was involved ) , I asked LOMO to make me the same lenses as triplet fluorite , because Aries delayed more and more the apo production. I gave LOMO all infos I have had from Zeiss APQ , so they designed the Apos 80/480, 80/600, 102/800 and 102/650 as triplet oilspacest using Russian BF1-CaF2-russian K8 ( BK7 ), but also with 2 other designs-

      In 1999 LOMO wrote that getting fluorite will delay the start of production and LOMO recalculated the triplet with OK 4 and came out with the same results. as with Fluorite.

      Thomas Back also designed such optics and we gave the design to LOMO to use his design.

      So we have had 3 diffrent LOMO design ( 1 with Fluorite ) and 1 TMB design , all has been about equal good and we told LOMO we wanted TMB design with Fluorite.

      In May 1999 I have send LOMO the Zeiss APQ immersion oil

      In November 1999 after big delay we got the first samples for testing and has been very happy with the quality. The first delivery has been even made with matched Flattners. That means LOMO designed flattner matched to melt datas of each main objective. But they have been heavy and expensive and required a large 3" focuser , which we did not want to use on 80 mm Apos , so we did not ordered more flattners.

      In November 2002 LOMO informed us that they going to change the design and replace the rear lens also against K8 for better stability. So I asked them what Glas they using now and they answered us, that they replace only the rear lens but middle lens will remain OK 4 as before and front lens will remain K 8 as before. This was a surprise to use, since we thought till then they use a triplet fluorite. And that was the date , November 2002, where we got Notice that from beginning on the LOMO design was used for production with OK 4 only and never Fluorite.

      It was a missunderstanding between all of us due bad communication with LOMO , Tom and me thought we have fluorite triplets, while LOMO choosed to use here OK4 design and not inform us what they used.

      This explained us later why the TMB designed flattners did not work well....could not, because they have been matched to TMB designed Apos and not LOMO designed apos, so that flattner production, which was expensive, has been a waste of money for us.

      Between the year 2000 and 2002 LOMO also changed from oil to airpsace, when exactly we dont know, because LOMO use never spacers, each lens has his own cell and all 3 lenses mounted into a outer cell, so we did not notice this change.

      The LOMO lenses have had from beginning on stunning quality and colorcorrection, so Tom and me never got the idea, that not his design and no fluorite was used.
      ------------------------------------------------

      New Product coming , which is interested for all LZOS Apo owners of any size who like to di imaging:

      Massimo Riccardi, a famous Optical Designer and also scilled optics Maker designed for us a triplet airspacest ED Reducer 0.75 with about 90 to 95 mm backfocuse.This Reducer Flattner ist going now in Production.
      It will have a housing with both sides M82 x 1 thread.

      Massimos design info regards Performance :
      It delivery follow specs:
      - image circle diameter 42 mm with 20 microns at edge and very low 3% vigneting at edge
      - image cirle diameter 52 mm with 25 microns at edge and standart 25 % vigneting at edge

      Savio Fong , a imager from Hong Kong who has 4 diffrent LZOS Apos up to 8" get now delivered a sample and will provide soon Testshoots


      If you have any question , let me know

      clear skies
      Markus

      --- In Refractors@yahoogroups.com, "Richard F.L.R. Snashall" <rflrs@...> wrote:
      >
      > On 2/13/2011 10:23 AM, tincanandstring wrote:
      > >
      > > Richard, Markus has been unbanned and will hopefully be able to add to the discussion of the LOMO triplets.
      > >
      > > Perhaps he has this sort of information.
      > >
      > > Frank
      > >
      > > --- In Refractors@yahoogroups.com, "Richard F.L.R. Snashall"<rflrs@> wrote:
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Do you know if the mating glasses are N-BK7 and N-ZK7, as in:
      > >>
      >
      > Thank you. Actually, I found that N-BK7, by itself, might have better
      > color correction than the mix of N-BK7 and N-ZK7. I tried with the
      > nearest LZOS glass I could find to N-BK7, but it did not seem to
      > come close.
      >
    • H P
      I m glad you re back, Markus. I ve learned a lot from your posts and look forward to continuing that. Perry
      Message 32 of 32 , Feb 17, 2011
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        I'm glad you're back, Markus. I've learned a lot from your posts and look forward to continuing that.

        Perry

        --- In Refractors@yahoogroups.com, "Markus" <anfrage@...> wrote:
        >
        > will do
        >
        > thanks
        > Markus
        >
        > --- In Refractors@yahoogroups.com, "truckstopastronomer" <truckstop.astronomer@> wrote:
        > >
        > > All we want partner is your knowledge and good fellowship, so keep it polite and non-confrontational.
        > > Doug
        > >
        > > --- In Refractors@yahoogroups.com, "Markus" <anfrage@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hello Everybody
        > > >
        > > > with a new yahoo adresse I finaly got access to this group again.
        > > >
        > > > today its a bit late for much news and answeres, but next days I am here to give you some answeres.
        > > > I was all the time able to read postings, so let me give you some infos to your latest postings of the discussion about the LOMO Lenses
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > 1, Infos from a scilled Imager who performed several tests :
        > > > --------------------------------------------------------
        > > > some good test results for you, regarding the LOMO 80/480. With proper spacers, the following flattener / reducers are sharp to the corner of the 35 full frame,
        > > >
        > > > - TS2 zero power, for testing distance of 50x focal length, image optimal at ~112mm backfocus
        > > > - Sky Watcher ED80 0.85x reducer
        > > > - BORG #7887 0.85x reducer a little sharper than SkyWatcher.
        > > > - Televue 0.8x (not as good, but still quite sharp, better than FSQ85, also the T2 key hole have serious vignetting).
        > > >
        > > > Astrotech don't work well even with thick spacers.
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > LOMO design History :
        > > > The LOMO triplets of Today using K8-Ok4-K8 , K8 is Russian BK7 and when the older design changed to this one, we, TMB and Me found no diffrence at all in the colorcorrection between old and new, latest version.
        > > >
        > > > before TMB came into the play I got contact to LZOS via a company in germany , who was a russian and whom I asked if he know sources for making apos in Russia. LZOS have had that time indeet own designed apos, triplet 80/600 fluorite and 150/900 triplet Fluorite. I bought them. They showed fantastic colorcorrection, but poor zonal deffects, poor turned edges and more due a very bad design. LZOS did that time, not know what amateurs want and pushed in here design only the on-axis colorcorrection , nothing else. Then I contacted TMB and we talked and we desited to work together, he makes the design, I arrange the productions. Since USA was the main interested market and US customers knew Thomas Back already as critical observer and friend of Roland Christen, we decited to call the apos TMB instead of APM or APM/TMB. It worked and it was our together start
        > > >
        > > > In the very beginning , 1998, when I contacted first time LOMO ( before TMB was involved ) , I asked LOMO to make me the same lenses as triplet fluorite , because Aries delayed more and more the apo production. I gave LOMO all infos I have had from Zeiss APQ , so they designed the Apos 80/480, 80/600, 102/800 and 102/650 as triplet oilspacest using Russian BF1-CaF2-russian K8 ( BK7 ), but also with 2 other designs-
        > > >
        > > > In 1999 LOMO wrote that getting fluorite will delay the start of production and LOMO recalculated the triplet with OK 4 and came out with the same results. as with Fluorite.
        > > >
        > > > Thomas Back also designed such optics and we gave the design to LOMO to use his design.
        > > >
        > > > So we have had 3 diffrent LOMO design ( 1 with Fluorite ) and 1 TMB design , all has been about equal good and we told LOMO we wanted TMB design with Fluorite.
        > > >
        > > > In May 1999 I have send LOMO the Zeiss APQ immersion oil
        > > >
        > > > In November 1999 after big delay we got the first samples for testing and has been very happy with the quality. The first delivery has been even made with matched Flattners. That means LOMO designed flattner matched to melt datas of each main objective. But they have been heavy and expensive and required a large 3" focuser , which we did not want to use on 80 mm Apos , so we did not ordered more flattners.
        > > >
        > > > In November 2002 LOMO informed us that they going to change the design and replace the rear lens also against K8 for better stability. So I asked them what Glas they using now and they answered us, that they replace only the rear lens but middle lens will remain OK 4 as before and front lens will remain K 8 as before. This was a surprise to use, since we thought till then they use a triplet fluorite. And that was the date , November 2002, where we got Notice that from beginning on the LOMO design was used for production with OK 4 only and never Fluorite.
        > > >
        > > > It was a missunderstanding between all of us due bad communication with LOMO , Tom and me thought we have fluorite triplets, while LOMO choosed to use here OK4 design and not inform us what they used.
        > > >
        > > > This explained us later why the TMB designed flattners did not work well....could not, because they have been matched to TMB designed Apos and not LOMO designed apos, so that flattner production, which was expensive, has been a waste of money for us.
        > > >
        > > > Between the year 2000 and 2002 LOMO also changed from oil to airpsace, when exactly we dont know, because LOMO use never spacers, each lens has his own cell and all 3 lenses mounted into a outer cell, so we did not notice this change.
        > > >
        > > > The LOMO lenses have had from beginning on stunning quality and colorcorrection, so Tom and me never got the idea, that not his design and no fluorite was used.
        > > > ------------------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > New Product coming , which is interested for all LZOS Apo owners of any size who like to di imaging:
        > > >
        > > > Massimo Riccardi, a famous Optical Designer and also scilled optics Maker designed for us a triplet airspacest ED Reducer 0.75 with about 90 to 95 mm backfocuse.This Reducer Flattner ist going now in Production.
        > > > It will have a housing with both sides M82 x 1 thread.
        > > >
        > > > Massimos design info regards Performance :
        > > > It delivery follow specs:
        > > > - image circle diameter 42 mm with 20 microns at edge and very low 3% vigneting at edge
        > > > - image cirle diameter 52 mm with 25 microns at edge and standart 25 % vigneting at edge
        > > >
        > > > Savio Fong , a imager from Hong Kong who has 4 diffrent LZOS Apos up to 8" get now delivered a sample and will provide soon Testshoots
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > If you have any question , let me know
        > > >
        > > > clear skies
        > > > Markus
        > > >
        > > > --- In Refractors@yahoogroups.com, "Richard F.L.R. Snashall" <rflrs@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > On 2/13/2011 10:23 AM, tincanandstring wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Richard, Markus has been unbanned and will hopefully be able to add to the discussion of the LOMO triplets.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Perhaps he has this sort of information.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Frank
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In Refractors@yahoogroups.com, "Richard F.L.R. Snashall"<rflrs@> wrote:
        > > > > >>
        > > > > >>
        > > > > >> Do you know if the mating glasses are N-BK7 and N-ZK7, as in:
        > > > > >>
        > > > >
        > > > > Thank you. Actually, I found that N-BK7, by itself, might have better
        > > > > color correction than the mix of N-BK7 and N-ZK7. I tried with the
        > > > > nearest LZOS glass I could find to N-BK7, but it did not seem to
        > > > > come close.
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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