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Re: [Reformed_Druid_Texts] Re: STUDY PROGRAM Step 1: Begin at the Beginning

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  • Paula Toader
    Dear Steve, Please help me with this. I don t understand, WHEN exactly to be online!!! I live in Romania, 10,000 miles away from US. It is now here 11:59 AM,
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1, 2004
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      Dear Steve,
       
      Please help me with this. I don't understand, WHEN exactly to be online!!! I live in Romania, 10,000 miles away from US.
      It is now here 11:59 AM, November 1, 2004. In USA it's probably between 1-2 AM, November 1, 2004. Am I right?
       
      morgainennis
       
       
       
      STEP ONE BEGINS

      Monday November 1, 2004
      12:00 am - 1:00 am
      This event does not repeat.

      Event Location: Refromed Druid Text Conference
      Notes:
      You may begin to post your paragraphs to one of the points in the assignment for Step One. Be sure to post as a new unique subject. Try to finish by Novermber 4th with initial posts.


      Stephen Crimmins <buirechain@...> wrote:
      Just thought I'd bounce a couple of thoughts of things
      to look at to everyone.

      The Druid Chronicles are somewhat of an artificial or
      playful history (obviously). What value do they
      possess to the reader, other than as entertainment and
      basic philosophy? Note also some of the points that
      Frangquist raises in his interview about the writing
      of the Chronicles. Also, if you are familiar with any
      of the relevant materials/history/whatever that the
      DCR refers to how do they compare.

      I'll offer one interesting comparison. In the original
      Carleton Constitution the Basic Tenets were phrased as
      1) North American Reformed Druids believe that one of
      the many
      ways in which the object of man's search for religious
      truth can be
      found is through Nature, the Earth-Mother.
      2) North American Reformed Druids believe that Nature,
      being
      one of the primary concerns in man's life and
      struggle, and being
      one of the Objects of Creation, is important to man's
      spiritual
      quests.


      Another question, how do the feel of the Chronicles
      and Spring Thaw compare/contrast and give their own
      picture of early druidism?

      Those are just a couple of thoughts to get you going.
      Feel free not to use them

      -Stephen


                 
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    • Michael Scharding
      I believe Romania is 7 hours ahead of Washington/New York time. So when it is 10PM EST it is 5AM Romania Standard Time. When it is 11:59PM EST it is 6:59AM.
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2004
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        I believe Romania is 7 hours ahead of Washington/New York time. So
        when it is 10PM EST it is 5AM Romania Standard Time. When it is
        11:59PM EST it is 6:59AM. It may mean you have to wake up a little
        early, but didn't you have a home business? :)

        -Mike

        --- In Reformed_Druid_Texts@yahoogroups.com, Paula Toader
        <morgainennis@y...> wrote:
        > Dear Steve,
        >
        > Please help me with this. I don't understand, WHEN exactly to be
        online!!! I live in Romania, 10,000 miles away from US.
        > It is now here 11:59 AM, November 1, 2004.
      • Michael Scharding
        ... I think it s interesting in Spring Thaw April 1964, written one month before the Druid Chronicles were released, that Frangquist states in verse 18
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 2004
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          > Another question, how do the feel of the Chronicles
          > and Spring Thaw compare/contrast and give their own
          > picture of early druidism?

          I think it's interesting in "Spring Thaw" April 1964, written one
          month before the Druid Chronicles were released, that Frangquist
          states in verse 18 "Reformed Druids do not seek direct abolition of
          the religious requirement." (meaning the Chapel Requirement. Instead
          he prefers to view it in a positive reworking as in verse 19: They
          merely seek recognition and credit for their personal efforts in
          dealing with "ultimate personal questions."

          A protest group that defines itself solely in a negative way as a
          reaction against something will dissolve once the threat or opponent
          is gone. To survive, a group must redefine and value itself on it's
          own merits and benefits. And this indeed was the challenge of
          Frangquist in his Fall 1964-Spring 1966 Archdruidcy; to redefine the
          Druids as a movement of intrinsic value. But, of course, it is not
          only Frangquist's influence, but the entire membership's feeling was
          changing in the course of the year.

          But I think Fisher was not willing to continue to lead the group any
          further in that direction by the spring of 1964, so he stepped back
          at the end of his Junior Year. Cherniack and Nelson also seem to
          step out of the limelight around the summer of 1964 to some degree as
          Frangquist's star rose.


          > I'll offer one interesting comparison. In the original
          > Carleton Constitution the Basic Tenets were phrased as
          > 1) North American Reformed Druids believe that one of
          > the many ways in which the object of man's search for religious
          > truth can be found is through Nature, the Earth-Mother.
          > 2) North American Reformed Druids believe that Nature,
          > being one of the primary concerns in man's life and
          > struggle, and being one of the Objects of Creation, is important
          to man's spiritual quests.

          I have never considered that point before!

          Here's the text from Chronicles:

          1. The object of the search for religious truth, which is a universal
          and a neverending search, may be found through the Earth Mother,
          which is Nature; but this is one way, yea, one way among many.

          2. And great is the importance, which is of a spiritual importance,
          of Nature, which is the Earth Mother; for is is one of the objects of
          Creation, and with it we do live, yea, even as we do struggle through
          life are we come face to face with it.


          The Book of Law in the Chronicles is considered a flowery
          restatement of the original Carleton Grove's constitution rather than
          an imposement of form for all Druid Groves, in my opinion and
          analysis.

          It is not surprising that Frangquist would "gussy up" the language of
          the Basic Tenets. However, as the original constitution has not been
          widely circulated over the years, increasingly over the years, most
          people have relied upon the wording in the Chronicles as the
          authentic text. And when so much emphasis of membership is given on
          just two points, the slight rewording of them can have significantly
          different spin on a group's identity. :)

          Note that the first tenet in Chronicle's version adds "a univerisal
          and a neverending search" which is laying a foundation of inclusivity
          and commonality with other faiths, and implies a work-in-progress
          with no finality. The second tenets adds "great" to emphasize the
          importance of the search. "Live with it" and "struggle through"
          and "face to face" are much more personal and evocative.

          As early as 1965, as we'll see in Step Two, Frangquist begins to use
          the short hand for these tenets of "Nature is good" and "Nature is
          good", which is an entirely different emphasis.

          -Mike
        • Stephen Crimmins
          As far as I can tell you re 7 hours ahead of the time that the class is schedule from. Which would make it (if this is correct, which I don t know if it is) at
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 1, 2004
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            As far as I can tell you're 7 hours ahead of the time
            that the class is schedule from. Which would make it
            (if this is correct, which I don't know if it is) at
            5:00. That s the best I know.

            The scheduled time is 5 hours - Greenwhich Meantime,
            if that helps.

            -Stephen
            --- Paula Toader <morgainennis@...> wrote:

            > Dear Steve,
            >
            > Please help me with this. I don't understand, WHEN
            > exactly to be online!!! I live in Romania, 10,000
            > miles away from US.
            > It is now here 11:59 AM, November 1, 2004. In USA
            > it's probably between 1-2 AM, November 1, 2004. Am I
            > right?
            >
            > morgainennis
            >
            >
            >
            > STEP ONE BEGINS
            >
            > Monday November 1, 2004
            > 12:00 am - 1:00 am
            > This event does not repeat.
            > Event Location: Refromed Druid Text Conference
            > Notes:
            > You may begin to post your paragraphs to one of the
            > points in the assignment for Step One. Be sure to
            > post as a new unique subject. Try to finish by
            > Novermber 4th with initial posts.
            >
            > Stephen Crimmins <buirechain@...> wrote:
            > Just thought I'd bounce a couple of thoughts of
            > things
            > to look at to everyone.
            >
            > The Druid Chronicles are somewhat of an artificial
            > or
            > playful history (obviously). What value do they
            > possess to the reader, other than as entertainment
            > and
            > basic philosophy? Note also some of the points that
            > Frangquist raises in his interview about the writing
            > of the Chronicles. Also, if you are familiar with
            > any
            > of the relevant materials/history/whatever that the
            > DCR refers to how do they compare.
            >
            > I'll offer one interesting comparison. In the
            > original
            > Carleton Constitution the Basic Tenets were phrased
            > as
            > 1) North American Reformed Druids believe that one
            > of
            > the many
            > ways in which the object of man's search for
            > religious
            > truth can be
            > found is through Nature, the Earth-Mother.
            > 2) North American Reformed Druids believe that
            > Nature,
            > being
            > one of the primary concerns in man's life and
            > struggle, and being
            > one of the Objects of Creation, is important to
            > man's
            > spiritual
            > quests.
            >
            >
            > Another question, how do the feel of the Chronicles
            > and Spring Thaw compare/contrast and give their own
            > picture of early druidism?
            >
            > Those are just a couple of thoughts to get you
            > going.
            > Feel free not to use them
            >
            > -Stephen
            >
            >
            >
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          • Paula Toader
            Thank you all for help...I ll try to keep up with you, I am online 18h/day, home and office...Even if I hadn t yet red much about this issue, I will try to
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 1, 2004
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              Thank you all for help...I'll try to keep up with you, I am online 18h/day, home and office...Even if I hadn't yet red much about this issue, I will try to rememer (I never learn) in short time as much as I can about this amazing realm, as well as share my knowledge as soon as possible...
               
              morgainennis

              Stephen Crimmins <buirechain@...> wrote:

              As far as I can tell you're 7 hours ahead of the time
              that the class is schedule from. Which would make it
              (if this is correct, which I don't know if it is) at
              5:00. That s the best I know.

              The scheduled time is 5 hours - Greenwhich Meantime,
              if that helps.

              -Stephen
              --- Paula Toader wrote:

              > Dear Steve,
              >
              > Please help me with this. I don't understand, WHEN
              > exactly to be online!!! I live in Romania, 10,000
              > miles away from US.
              > It is now here 11:59 AM, November 1, 2004. In USA
              > it's probably between 1-2 AM, November 1, 2004. Am I
              > right?
              >
              > morgainennis
              >
              >
              >
              > STEP ONE BEGINS
              >
              > Monday November 1, 2004
              > 12:00 am - 1:00 am
              > This event does not repeat.
              > Event Location: Refromed Druid Text Conference
              > Notes:
              > You may begin to post your paragraphs to one of the
              > points in the assignment for Step One. Be sure to
              > post as a new unique subject. Try to finish by
              > Novermber 4th with initial posts.
              >
              > Stephen Crimmins wrote:
              > Just thought I'd bounce a couple of thoughts of
              > things
              > to look at to everyone.
              >
              > The Druid Chronicles are somewhat of an artificial
              > or
              > playful history (obviously). What value do they
              > possess to the reader, other than as entertainment
              > and
              > basic philosophy? Note also some of the points that
              > Frangquist raises in his interview about the writing
              > of the Chronicles. Also, if you are familiar with
              > any
              > of the relevant materials/history/whatever that the
              > DCR refers to how do they compare.
              >
              > I'll offer one interesting comparison. In the
              > original
              > Carleton Constitution the Basic Tenets were phrased
              > as
              > 1) North American Reformed Druids believe that one
              > of
              > the many
              > ways in which the object of man's search for
              > religious
              > truth can be
              > found is through Nature, the Earth-Mother.
              > 2) North American Reformed Druids believe that
              > Nature,
              > being
              > one of the primary concerns in man's life and
              > struggle, and being
              > one of the Objects of Creation, is important to
              > man's
              > spiritual
              > quests.
              >
              >
              > Another question, how do the feel of the Chronicles
              > and Spring Thaw compare/contrast and give their own
              > picture of early druidism?
              >
              > Those are just a couple of thoughts to get you
              > going.
              > Feel free not to use them
              >
              > -Stephen
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
              > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
              > Want to be a wise steward?
              > �Invest 60� a day in the life of a child.�Click here
              > to view an investment of a lifetime..
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Reformed_Druid_Texts/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > Reformed_Druid_Texts-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
              > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Do you Yahoo!?
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              finish.




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            • Aigeann
              TASK Write a few paragraphs about one or two of these points and post them as a NEW subject (not a reply to this one) in the conference with a unique
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 1, 2004
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                TASK

                Write a few paragraphs about one or two of these points and post them
                as a NEW subject (not a reply to this one) in the conference with a
                unique interesting header between Nov 1st and Nov 4th.

                ***

                The original founders, especially David Fisher, in Carlton developed
                creative way to work around the existing rule of mandatory attendance of
                a campus approved church service. They obviously were of above average
                intelligence, independent souls as well as the type to think "outside
                the box" because their solution pressured the existing authority not
                only to review their rule but to soon retract it.

                I can only wonder where they are today (although I read that David
                Fisher sought to enter the Episcopal ministry) and if they found success
                in whatever they focused on in their life during their many years after
                college.

                Additionally, the founders based their new spirituality upon what they
                apparently knew best or at least were probably raised with,
                Christianity, which may explain their use of King James type wording in
                their own liturgy. The result was a mixture of formalty and 60s type pop
                culture.

                They choose the label "Druid" because the term is essentially a blank
                slate, open to whatever individual interpretation anyone wants to
                connect with it because the original ancient Druids did not write
                anything down (although there are some arguments for their writing some
                things down in Greek). There is little hard evidence of what original
                Druids did, how they worshiped or even what they worshiped (we still
                don't know much more 40 years later) on top of the fact that most of
                what we did/do know is contradictory. Without any right or wrong way to
                worship as a "Druid", ancient or modern, the founders developed their
                liturgy and new spirituality without any restrictions or preconceived
                tenets. To paraphrase an often used term among modern Druids, they let
                the awen flow.

                What the founders discovered was that by knowingly or unknowingly
                applying the basics of a valid spirituality unto the fractured evidence
                of another, the resulting hybrid worked in that it satisfied and still
                satisfies the spiritual needs of many.
              • Michael Scharding
                Dear Aigeann, This is an excellent posting, about the right length, and very clearly written. I think your summary is well made on the selection of the term
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 2, 2004
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                  Dear Aigeann,

                  This is an excellent posting, about the right length, and very
                  clearly written. I think your summary is well made on the selection
                  of the term "Druid", but as you'll see in future steps, the choice
                  of "Druid" will have dramatic influence on the course of future
                  debates that we'll read soon.

                  I hope many people will post about the same length or reply in such a
                  way over the course of this week.

                  I will take a look at the records to see if I can provide an "Animal
                  House" ending "Where are they now?" answer to your question, as most
                  of the Founders are nearing retirement (age 65) in their current
                  careers; a time when many people's lives begin to be easily
                  summarized.

                  I would, also however, like to bring up the point of whether they
                  were indeed operating without preconceptions. Although creativity
                  does happen, I think that most people pick from already known
                  channels of expression that they have heard of once, even if not
                  practiced by the mainstream. In other words, where might they have
                  come across similiar models of religious protest traditions that they
                  followed? Who were the pre-64 models of rebellion (James Dean,
                  Martin Luther King, Martin Luther, Revolutionary War Founding
                  Fathers, etc.)?

                  =Mike

                  --- In Reformed_Druid_Texts@yahoogroups.com, "Aigeann" <aigeann@e...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > TASK
                  >
                  > Write a few paragraphs about one or two of these points and post
                  them
                  > as a NEW subject (not a reply to this one) in the conference with a
                  > unique interesting header between Nov 1st and Nov 4th.
                  >
                  > ***
                  >
                  > The original founders, especially David Fisher, in Carlton developed
                  > creative way to work around the existing rule of mandatory
                  attendance of
                  > a campus approved church service. They obviously were of above
                  average
                  > intelligence, independent souls as well as the type to
                  think "outside
                  > the box" because their solution pressured the existing authority not
                  > only to review their rule but to soon retract it.
                  >
                  > I can only wonder where they are today (although I read that David
                  > Fisher sought to enter the Episcopal ministry) and if they found
                  success
                  > in whatever they focused on in their life during their many years
                  after
                  > college.
                  >
                  > Additionally, the founders based their new spirituality upon what
                  they
                  > apparently knew best or at least were probably raised with,
                  > Christianity, which may explain their use of King James type
                  wording in
                  > their own liturgy. The result was a mixture of formalty and 60s
                  type pop
                  > culture.
                  >
                  > They choose the label "Druid" because the term is essentially a
                  blank
                  > slate, open to whatever individual interpretation anyone wants to
                  > connect with it because the original ancient Druids did not write
                  > anything down (although there are some arguments for their writing
                  some
                  > things down in Greek). There is little hard evidence of what
                  original
                  > Druids did, how they worshiped or even what they worshiped (we still
                  > don't know much more 40 years later) on top of the fact that most of
                  > what we did/do know is contradictory. Without any right or wrong
                  way to
                  > worship as a "Druid", ancient or modern, the founders developed
                  their
                  > liturgy and new spirituality without any restrictions or
                  preconceived
                  > tenets. To paraphrase an often used term among modern Druids, they
                  let
                  > the awen flow.
                  >
                  > What the founders discovered was that by knowingly or unknowingly
                  > applying the basics of a valid spirituality unto the fractured
                  evidence
                  > of another, the resulting hybrid worked in that it satisfied and
                  still
                  > satisfies the spiritual needs of many.
                • druidfromtexas@aol.com
                  Interesting thought here. Perhaps in the context they used it, it was a blank term. But I wonder why that term and not others. In a message dated 11/1/2004
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 12, 2004
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                    Interesting thought here.  Perhaps in the context they used it, it was a blank term.  But I wonder why that term and not others.
                     
                    In a message dated 11/1/2004 2:27:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, aigeann@... writes:
                    They choose the label "Druid" because the term is essentially a blank
                    slate, open to whatever individual interpretation anyone wants to
                    connect with it because the original ancient Druids did not write
                    anything down (although there are some arguments for their writing some
                    things down in Greek).  There is little hard evidence of what original
                    Druids did, how they worshiped or even what they worshiped (we still
                    don't know much more 40 years later) on top of the fact that most of
                    what we did/do know is contradictory.  Without any right or wrong way to
                    worship as a "Druid", ancient or modern, the founders developed their
                    liturgy and new spirituality without any restrictions or preconceived
                    tenets.  To paraphrase an often used term among modern Druids, they let
                    the awen flow.
                     
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