Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Oooooooooh Yeeeeukkkkkk!!!!

Expand Messages
  • ROBERT R. CALDER
    Most people will know the phrase I mean,  Damn damn, blast blast, damn damn, eff eff eff eff, eff off!!! These are the vocables I mutter as I hear with
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 19, 2014
      Most people will know the phrase I mean, 

      Damn damn, blast blast, damn damn, eff eff eff eff, eff off!!!

      These are the vocables I mutter as I hear with regret 
      the line first played and often repeated, by Louis, with which people patronise his memory, finally flushing the toilet on it with "ooohh, yeaaah!"

      It's an insult!   Dear old Louis, pat him on the head and everybody knows him by that phrase which indicated rather his age and frailty and wariness of straying beyond a stereotype of mass audience expectation.  
      I remember Dick Hyman on the wonderful Jazz Score, that radio quiz and encouragement of anecdote which once featured Slim Gaillard delivering an answer which went on at the length of a decent twelve inch 78, and was well worth issuing as such!  Rather than one or two points Benny Green awarded him eleven.  
      Hyman was not so aware of jazz history as some might have imagined, but his recollection of coming to Europe and hearing bands playing music available in the 1920s was that he had never heard this repertoire and probably neither had most of the people who played what i call PTA Dicksyland in North America.  
      One does of course hear of concerts (I have attended none of the sort, but I have heard American bands in Edinburgh playing the saints et cetera where they might have had a repertoire) at which a very decent American player was subsidised to play below his best with a tedious trad band whose local following were loyal but not to musical standards, and pandered to by a band equally loyal until they were so tight as to go up a chimney together. 

      Somebody can tell me of the band whose CD I once reviewed, with the amazing Kim Cusack and a tuba player, represented in their earlier day by a ten inch LP with pianist, banjo, etc., and in a new recording with a different rhythm section doing the same work differently with different resources, and nobody on the special reunion gig doing the least pastiche.  So fresh!  And none of that corny, clarinet and plunger cliche old and tame. The deadly stuff had all passed through a blender. 

      It would be good for some people to hear something not worn down by having been their background music for half a lifetime. In Jazz, Time is what a rhythm section should be managing, not considerations such as that this was the music young people wearied of listening to and abandoned for Lock and Loll... or something of the sort. 
      Give me the music of the roaring forties (map reference not 1940s)
      and blow up a storm! 

      and being Scottish I can only end with, 

      och, aye!

      Robert R. Calder







    • PETER GERLER
      Dear Robert-- I once heard a Scottish bagpipe/drum band, and they were swinging to light up the sky. All best, Peter G Newton, MA
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 19, 2014
        Dear Robert--

        I once heard a Scottish bagpipe/drum band, and they were swinging to light up the sky.

        All best,

        Peter G
        Newton, MA
        On Jun 19, 2014, at 9:37 AM, 'ROBERT R. CALDER' serapion@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:

         

        Most people will know the phrase I mean, 

        Damn damn, blast blast, damn damn, eff eff eff eff, eff off!!!

        These are the vocables I mutter as I hear with regret 
        the line first played and often repeated, by Louis, with which people patronise his memory, finally flushing the toilet on it with "ooohh, yeaaah!"

        It's an insult!   Dear old Louis, pat him on the head and everybody knows him by that phrase which indicated rather his age and frailty and wariness of straying beyond a stereotype of mass audience expectation.  
        I remember Dick Hyman on the wonderful Jazz Score, that radio quiz and encouragement of anecdote which once featured Slim Gaillard delivering an answer which went on at the length of a decent twelve inch 78, and was well worth issuing as such!  Rather than one or two points Benny Green awarded him eleven.  
        Hyman was not so aware of jazz history as some might have imagined, but his recollection of coming to Europe and hearing bands playing music available in the 1920s was that he had never heard this repertoire and probably neither had most of the people who played what i call PTA Dicksyland in North America.  
        One does of course hear of concerts (I have attended none of the sort, but I have heard American bands in Edinburgh playing the saints et cetera where they might have had a repertoire) at which a very decent American player was subsidised to play below his best with a tedious trad band whose local following were loyal but not to musical standards, and pandered to by a band equally loyal until they were so tight as to go up a chimney together. 

        Somebody can tell me of the band whose CD I once reviewed, with the amazing Kim Cusack and a tuba player, represented in their earlier day by a ten inch LP with pianist, banjo, etc., and in a new recording with a different rhythm section doing the same work differently with different resources, and nobody on the special reunion gig doing the least pastiche.  So fresh!  And none of that corny, clarinet and plunger cliche old and tame. The deadly stuff had all passed through a blender. 

        It would be good for some people to hear something not worn down by having been their background music for half a lifetime. In Jazz, Time is what a rhythm section should be managing, not considerations such as that this was the music young people wearied of listening to and abandoned for Lock and Loll... or something of the sort. 
        Give me the music of the roaring forties (map reference not 1940s)
        and blow up a storm! 

        and being Scottish I can only end with, 

        och, aye!

        Robert R. Calder









      • David Brown
        Hi Robert How much was Louis responsible for his own image ? Mostly I think. I get embarrassed by the AS roadshow. Especially visuals. Jazz Score was good
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 19, 2014
          Hi Robert

          How much was Louis responsible for his own image ? Mostly I think. I get embarrassed by the AS roadshow. Especially visuals.

          'Jazz Score' was good and, although I believe the 'contestants' were given the answers beforehand, it was the anecdotes that amused.

          The only players I heard who could always stamp their image on even the direst local band were Ken Colyer and Bill Davison. Musical integrity, hard work and power of personality.

          Dave



          'ROBERT R. CALDER' serapion@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:
           
          Most people will know the phrase I mean, 

          Damn damn, blast blast, damn damn, eff eff eff eff, eff off!!!

          These are the vocables I mutter as I hear with regret 
          the line first played and often repeated, by Louis, with which people patronise his memory, finally flushing the toilet on it with "ooohh, yeaaah!"

          It's an insult!   Dear old Louis, pat him on the head and everybody knows him by that phrase which indicated rather his age and frailty and wariness of straying beyond a stereotype of mass audience expectation.  
          I remember Dick Hyman on the wonderful Jazz Score, that radio quiz and encouragement of anecdote which once featured Slim Gaillard delivering an answer which went on at the length of a decent twelve inch 78, and was well worth issuing as such!  Rather than one or two points Benny Green awarded him eleven.  
          Hyman was not so aware of jazz history as some might have imagined, but his recollection of coming to Europe and hearing bands playing music available in the 1920s was that he had never heard this repertoire and probably neither had most of the people who played what i call PTA Dicksyland in North America.  
          One does of course hear of concerts (I have attended none of the sort, but I have heard American bands in Edinburgh playing the saints et cetera where they might have had a repertoire) at which a very decent American player was subsidised to play below his best with a tedious trad band whose local following were loyal but not to musical standards, and pandered to by a band equally loyal until they were so tight as to go up a chimney together. 

          Somebody can tell me of the band whose CD I once reviewed, with the amazing Kim Cusack and a tuba player, represented in their earlier day by a ten inch LP with pianist, banjo, etc., and in a new recording with a different rhythm section doing the same work differently with different resources, and nobody on the special reunion gig doing the least pastiche.  So fresh!  And none of that corny, clarinet and plunger cliche old and tame. The deadly stuff had all passed through a blender. 

          It would be good for some people to hear something not worn down by having been their background music for half a lifetime. In Jazz, Time is what a rhythm section should be managing, not considerations such as that this was the music young people wearied of listening to and abandoned for Lock and Loll... or something of the sort. 
          Give me the music of the roaring forties (map reference not 1940s)
          and blow up a storm! 

          and being Scottish I can only end with, 

          och, aye!

          Robert R. Calder








        • alan504450
          Ken Colyer had some good bands and some dire ones. Too much baggage from the time spent in NO limited his approach. TTFN - 007 ... From: David Brown
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 19, 2014
            Ken Colyer had some good bands and some dire ones. Too much baggage from the time spent in NO limited his approach.
            TTFN - 007



            -----Original Message-----
            From: David Brown johnhaleysims@... [RedHotJazz] <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 16:13
            Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Oooooooooh Yeeeeukkkkkk!!!!

             
            Hi Robert

            How much was Louis responsible for his own image ? Mostly I think. I get embarrassed by the AS roadshow. Especially visuals.

            'Jazz Score' was good and, although I believe the 'contestants' were given the answers beforehand, it was the anecdotes that amused.

            The only players I heard who could always stamp their image on even the direst local band were Ken Colyer and Bill Davison. Musical integrity, hard work and power of personality.

            Dave



            'ROBERT R. CALDER' serapion@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:
             
            Most people will know the phrase I mean, 

            Damn damn, blast blast, damn damn, eff eff eff eff, eff off!!!

            These are the vocables I mutter as I hear with regret 
            the line first played and often repeated, by Louis, with which people patronise his memory, finally flushing the toilet on it with "ooohh, yeaaah!"

            It's an insult!   Dear old Louis, pat him on the head and everybody knows him by that phrase which indicated rather his age and frailty and wariness of straying beyond a stereotype of mass audience expectation.  
            I remember Dick Hyman on the wonderful Jazz Score, that radio quiz and encouragement of anecdote which once featured Slim Gaillard delivering an answer which went on at the length of a decent twelve inch 78, and was well worth issuing as such!  Rather than one or two points Benny Green awarded him eleven.  
            Hyman was not so aware of jazz history as some might have imagined, but his recollection of coming to Europe and hearing bands playing music available in the 1920s was that he had never heard this repertoire and probably neither had most of the people who played what i call PTA Dicksyland in North America.  
            One does of course hear of concerts (I have attended none of the sort, but I have heard American bands in Edinburgh playing the saints et cetera where they might have had a repertoire) at which a very decent American player was subsidised to play below his best with a tedious trad band whose local following were loyal but not to musical standards, and pandered to by a band equally loyal until they were so tight as to go up a chimney together. 

            Somebody can tell me of the band whose CD I once reviewed, with the amazing Kim Cusack and a tuba player, represented in their earlier day by a ten inch LP with pianist, banjo, etc., and in a new recording with a different rhythm section doing the same work differently with different resources, and nobody on the special reunion gig doing the least pastiche.  So fresh!  And none of that corny, clarinet and plunger cliche old and tame. The deadly stuff had all passed through a blender. 

            It would be good for some people to hear something not worn down by having been their background music for half a lifetime. In Jazz, Time is what a rhythm section should be managing, not considerations such as that this was the music young people wearied of listening to and abandoned for Lock and Loll... or something of the sort. 
            Give me the music of the roaring forties (map reference not 1940s)
            and blow up a storm! 

            and being Scottish I can only end with, 

            och, aye!

            Robert R. Calder








          • David Brown
            Limited in what way ?
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 19, 2014
              Limited in what way ?

              alan.bond@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:
               

              Ken Colyer had some good bands and some dire ones. Too much baggage from the time spent in NO limited his approach.
              TTFN - 007






            • Mordechai Litzman
              Speaking about fresh new approaches to 20 s jazz, the 50-60 s recordings of Wilbur DeParis band come to mind. Some recordings are at breakneck speed, but
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 19, 2014
                Speaking about fresh "new" approaches to 20's jazz, the 50-60's recordings of Wilbur DeParis band come to mind. Some recordings are at breakneck speed, but there is a lot of really good and innovative stuff there.

                The German Barrelhouse Jazz Band adopted some of their compositions with very good results, and they probably still play them.

                Couldn't find the recording I wanted of this tune, but this will do:
                Here is a beautiful recording: Majorca (go to 2:25 to skip the intro)
                 
                Wilbur de Paris & his new New Orleans Jazz 1956 Majorca & Introduction (Live)


                  This recording is in the style of of the DeParis band.


                On Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:24 AM, "David Brown johnhaleysims@... [RedHotJazz]" <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                 
                Limited in what way ?

                alan.bond@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:
                 
                Ken Colyer had some good bands and some dire ones. Too much baggage from the time spent in NO limited his approach.
                TTFN - 007







              • Andrew Taylor
                Scots - cantankerous bunch. Robert s right of course, it s like bad imitations of anybody, I guess that s what happens when you get overexposed.
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 19, 2014
                  Scots - cantankerous bunch.
                  Robert's right of course, it's like bad imitations of anybody, I guess that's what happens when you get overexposed.

                  Speaking of cantankerous:
                  Louis: No, that wasn’t Steve. Steve was all right. It was [name withheld]. And I’ll tell you another one. You know [name withheld]? One day he told Braud I was playing 1918 trumpet and the hell with me. You know that was the wrong man to talk. Braud nearly killed him for it. Now they tell me he never said it, he loves me too much, but I know those cats. They want to play good trumpet, and they want to show off at the same time. But you can’t have it both ways. You can play good trumpet with a pretty tone and a fine melody or you can play them weird chords. You can’t do both at the same time and if you try, that’s when you get unhappy and hate everybody and then you blow your top.
                  ...
                  Louis: You see, pops, it’s wonderful with the trumpet players because the trumpet is an instrument full of temptation. All the young cats want to kill papa, so they start forcing their tone. Did you listen to [name withheld] last night? He was trying to do my piece, make fun of me. But did you hear his tone? ’Nuff said.

                  That's pretty intellectual, to my mind - pithy and succinct.

                  I take Louis' own "Oh, yeahhhs" in stride. I agree that he's "playing to type," but Louis mainly wanted people to have a good time - the gig is for the audience, not our bunch of zealots, and they loved him even if they didn't get the full picture. 
                  As Ricky Riccardi points out, there's still a lot of great music from the later period.
                  Side note - first swinging I ever heard (and recognized as such) on record was Louis's last (?) record, Mame, which had a eulogy to Armstrong on the back.  It's clearly trying to replicate the Hello, Dolly stuff, and doesn't even have Trummy on it, but he's still the man (didn't know it at the time). 

                  I think "if you have to ask, you'll never know" for swing and jazz is totally wrong and elitist (not that anyone said it here).
                  Regards, Andrew

                  On 6/19/2014 8:37 AM, 'ROBERT R. CALDER' serapion@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:
                   
                  Most people will know the phrase I mean, 

                  Damn damn, blast blast, damn damn, eff eff eff eff, eff off!!!

                  These are the vocables I mutter as I hear with regret 
                  the line first played and often repeated, by Louis, with which people patronise his memory, finally flushing the toilet on it with "ooohh, yeaaah!"

                  It's an insult!   Dear old Louis, pat him on the head and everybody knows him by that phrase which indicated rather his age and frailty and wariness of straying beyond a stereotype of mass audience expectation.  
                  I remember Dick Hyman on the wonderful Jazz Score, that radio quiz and encouragement of anecdote which once featured Slim Gaillard delivering an answer which went on at the length of a decent twelve inch 78, and was well worth issuing as such!  Rather than one or two points Benny Green awarded him eleven.  
                  Hyman was not so aware of jazz history as some might have imagined, but his recollection of coming to Europe and hearing bands playing music available in the 1920s was that he had never heard this repertoire and probably neither had most of the people who played what i call PTA Dicksyland in North America.  
                  One does of course hear of concerts (I have attended none of the sort, but I have heard American bands in Edinburgh playing the saints et cetera where they might have had a repertoire) at which a very decent American player was subsidised to play below his best with a tedious trad band whose local following were loyal but not to musical standards, and pandered to by a band equally loyal until they were so tight as to go up a chimney together. 

                  Somebody can tell me of the band whose CD I once reviewed, with the amazing Kim Cusack and a tuba player, represented in their earlier day by a ten inch LP with pianist, banjo, etc., and in a new recording with a different rhythm section doing the same work differently with different resources, and nobody on the special reunion gig doing the least pastiche.  So fresh!  And none of that corny, clarinet and plunger cliche old and tame. The deadly stuff had all passed through a blender. 

                  It would be good for some people to hear something not worn down by having been their background music for half a lifetime. In Jazz, Time is what a rhythm section should be managing, not considerations such as that this was the music young people wearied of listening to and abandoned for Lock and Loll... or something of the sort. 
                  Give me the music of the roaring forties (map reference not 1940s)
                  and blow up a storm! 

                  and being Scottish I can only end with, 

                  och, aye!

                  Robert R. Calder









                  -- 
                  Andrew Taylor, MLS
                  Associate Curator, Visual Resources
                  Department of Art History, Rice University
                  713-348-4836
                  https://twitter.com/agrahamt
                • Wallerism
                  Andrew: if you re referring to my former email: if Fats really said something like that, it might have been more tongue-in-cheek than anything else. I don t
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 19, 2014
                    Andrew:
                    if you're referring to my former email: if Fats really said something like that, it might have been more tongue-in-cheek than anything else.
                    I don't think he ever put anyone down in an elitist way.
                    There's still something slightly "philosophic" to such anectdotal quotes (at least most of the time, if one could ever verify them).
                    Let's just imagine someone attending a Bach oratorium concert and then, afterwards, have them walk up to the performers, asking. "Hello, what is Baroque music?"
                    Apart from that: good points on Louis.

                    Best,
                    Markus

                    I think "if you have to ask, you'll never know" for swing and jazz is totally wrong and elitist (not that anyone said it here).
                    Regards, Andrew


                  • Wallerism
                    Robert: ha! You nail it. When I was very young and knew even less than now, I often got invited by some older Dicksylanders (who called themselves
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 19, 2014
                      Robert: ha! You nail it. When I was very young and knew even less than now, I often got invited by some older Dicksylanders (who called themselves "professional") and there it happened: the inevitable Satchmo' imitation. I so wanted to escape those situations everytime they occurred. Still, those guys helped me to get into stuff, as they could play about five chords and six pieces somewhat right. I for one could do three chords and two pieces about 50% right (on good days).

                      Best,
                      Markus


                      Am 19.06.2014 15:37, schrieb 'ROBERT R. CALDER' serapion@... [RedHotJazz]:
                       

                      It's an insult!   Dear old Louis, pat him on the head and everybody knows him by that phrase which indicated rather his age and frailty and wariness of straying beyond a stereotype of mass audience expectation. 
                    • Andrew Taylor
                      Re: I think if you have to ask, you ll never know for swing and jazz is totally wrong and elitist (not that anyone said it here). Hey Markus, Definitely
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 20, 2014
                        Re: >>I think "if you have to ask, you'll never know" for swing and jazz is totally wrong and elitist (not that anyone said it here).

                        Hey Markus,
                        Definitely not referencing that totally fun line by Waller you quoted.  Just thinking aloud about the fact that everything has a learning curve - usually endless...

                        If somebody is part of the cognoscenti on some subject, that results from longtime familiarity with (and affinity for) that subject., but  they weren't born with that understanding (Buddy Rich notwithstanding). 
                        I certainly forget that about the 2 or 3 subjects I actually know something about.

                        My own biggest (or latest) egg-in-face concerns biographer Lawrence Bergreen, as I thought he was crazy to think that Armstrong played the Dippermouth Blues solo (famous part), not Oliver, and was quite indignant about it (for, like, the past decade).

                        Turns out I didn't even realize that there were two versions of the song by KOCJB until the past year or so (Gennett and Okeh), and someone with more experience than I (one of the cognoscenti?) told me recently that the second (fast) version was "open" (no plunger) and that it was played by Armstrong, not Oliver.  I'll have to listen to it and see what I think myself.

                        Sorry to Larry B. and so much for my expertise!
                         - Andrew

                        On 6/19/2014 6:21 PM, Wallerism wallerism@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:
                         

                        Andrew:
                        if you're referring to my former email: if Fats really said something like that, it might have been more tongue-in-cheek than anything else.
                        I don't think he ever put anyone down in an elitist way.
                        There's still something slightly "philosophic" to such anectdotal quotes (at least most of the time, if one could ever verify them).
                        Let's just imagine someone attending a Bach oratorium concert and then, afterwards, have them walk up to the performers, asking. "Hello, what is Baroque music?"
                        Apart from that: good points on Louis.

                        Best,
                        Markus

                        I think "if you have to ask, you'll never know" for swing and jazz is totally wrong and elitist (not that anyone said it here).
                        Regards, Andrew




                        -- 
                        Andrew Taylor, MLS
                        Associate Curator, Visual Resources
                        Department of Art History, Rice University
                        713-348-4836
                        https://twitter.com/agrahamt
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.