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R: Re: R: Re: R: Re: [RedHotJazz] What a shame to be so lo-tech

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  • levi.marco@libero.it
    Hi Peter,I m glad we share some basic/important beliefs. It s fun we have some Bach s experiences while driving: Many years ago I discovered my favorite Bach s
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 18, 2014
      Hi Peter,
      I'm glad we share some basic/important beliefs. It's fun we have some Bach's experiences while driving: Many years ago I discovered my favorite Bach's composition (BWV 903) when I was driving on a highway...I had to stop immediately, close my eyes and say to me: am I dreaming?
      Regarding Jimmy Giuffre, your teacher, I clearly remember when I heard "The train and the river", about in 1957 or '58: I was listening to a radio program called "time for jazz", conducted by the great Willis Conover. Jimmy Giuffre made ​​me realize for the first time what the deep South is. Jewish and Gipsy music are highly compatible with jazz even if their osmosis is not always remarked. I think that Woody Allen's clarinet is strongly influenced by the Klezmer music but I never found a comment about it. Regarding the violins I love so much the recordings made by Grappelli & Menuhin, two killers on this terrific and terrible instrument. 
      So you play the reeds. Did you upload anything on YouTube?
      All the Best.
      Marco
      P.S. Sorry for being a bit off topic!


       

      Hello Marco,


      Yes, absolutely agree about Bach--the first jazz musician! Yes, the swing is there--waiting to be hatched, really. And where would American popular song be without modulation--possible because of tempered tuning. Down the rabbit hole!

      In my younger days I had the privilege of studying with Jimmy Giuffre in New York. He told a story: One night he was driving down a country road when, on the radio, he heard a solo violinist playing Bach. He couldn't believe it--but the player was swinging. The announcer said it was Nathan Milstein. Then amazingly, the same thing happened to me 2 weeks later--I was driving, heard a violin playing Bach and swinging. I thought, "I bet it's Nathan Milstein." It was. 

      Now flash forward 40 years. Recently I was researching the influence of Jewish music on jazz, and I learned that Nathan Milstein had studied with a klezmer: dance music. Got it?!

      I agree about 1917--but don't forget about James Reese Europe, Will Marion Cook, and particularly the Original Creole Orchestra.

      Was never crazy about the Swingles--they seemed to be gilding the lily. 

      Best--Peter G

      On Jun 17, 2014, at 3:42 PM, 'levi.marco@...' levi.marco@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:

       

      Oh yes Peter, the "Swing Era" is so called because the jazz of that time emphasized this important element of jazz music, possibly the more important (It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing...Ipse Duke Dixit!). Swing is not only related to jazz and the modern era. J.S Bach is the most beloved classical musician among the jazzmen that love his stunning scales, harmonies and his rhythms containing lots of  implicit and explicit swing.  They sometimes love to explore the Bach's music in a jazzy way (I remember the "Swingle Singers" from France, f.e.). And what about Domenico Scarlatti? The first time I listened to some of his harpsichord sonatas I told myself: Oh my God, that's bossa nova! Many years later I read a monography on this musician where my opinion was confirmed and explained with his stage at the Portuguese Court. You can easily imagine why that is related to some Scarlatti'! s south american influence (how much swing in samba, bossa nova etc!)

      Just a little highlight: 1917 is not the year when jazz was born but only the year when the first known jazz record was released. So the ODJB was the first Band to record  this music but not the only one to play it at the time.The rarely quoted " Wilbur Sweatman's Original Jass band" was already active in 1917/18 and this orchestra has nothing to envy to the O.D.J.B.

      Marco


      ----Messaggio originale----
      Da: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
      Data: 17/06/2014 20.23
      A: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
      Ogg: Re: R: Re: [RedHotJazz] What a shame to be so lo-tech

       

      One other thing about the "swing era"--(I just gotta chime in here, even though I'm likely preaching to the choir.) Whenever I use the word "swing" with people, they say, "Oh, you mean the swing era, and big bands." Even musicians I know have no idea that "swing" in jazz is an action, not a style. Before it is a noun or adjective, it is a verb. Some American music was swinging even before 1900. 


      To my mind, this heartbeat of American music, coming as it did from work song, brass bands, and the sanctified church, is the "active ingredient" in all jazz styles--the river than runs through.

      PG
      On Jun 17, 2014, at 1:33 PM, David Brown johnhaleysims@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:


       




    • PETER GERLER
      Yep--Jewish and gypsy for sure. (Witness the great gypsy jazz revival happening now--leading up to the trad jazz revival!) Woody was also influenced by George
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 19, 2014
        Yep--Jewish and gypsy for sure. (Witness the great gypsy jazz revival happening now--leading up to the trad jazz revival!) Woody was also influenced by George Lewis. BTW Have you read Tom Sancton's book, "Song for My Fathers"?  

        PG
        On Jun 18, 2014, at 1:06 PM, 'levi.marco@...' levi.marco@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:

         

        Hi Peter,
        I'm glad we share some basic/important beliefs. It's fun we have some Bach's experiences while driving: Many years ago I discovered my favorite Bach's composition (BWV 903) when I was driving on a highway...I had to stop immediately, close my eyes and say to me: am I dreaming?
        Regarding Jimmy Giuffre, your teacher, I clearly remember when I heard "The train and the river", about in 1957 or '58: I was listening to a radio program called "time for jazz", conducted by the great Willis Conover. Jimmy Giuffre made ​​me realize for the first time what the deep South is. Jewish and Gipsy music are highly compatible with jazz even if their osmosis is not always remarked. I think that Woody Allen's clarinet is strongly influenced by the Klezmer music but I never found a comment about it. Regarding the violins I love so much the recordings made by Grappelli & Menuhin, two killers on this terrific and terrible instrument. 
        So you play the reeds. Did you upload anything on YouTube?
        All the Best.
        Marco
        P.S. Sorry for being a bit off topic!


         

        Hello Marco,


        Yes, absolutely agree about Bach--the first jazz musician! Yes, the swing is there--waiting to be hatched, really. And where would American popular song be without modulation--possible because of tempered tuning. Down the rabbit hole!

        In my younger days I had the privilege of studying with Jimmy Giuffre in New York. He told a story: One night he was driving down a country road when, on the radio, he heard a solo violinist playing Bach. He couldn't believe it--but the player was swinging. The announcer said it was Nathan Milstein. Then amazingly, the same thing happened to me 2 weeks later--I was driving, heard a violin playing Bach and swinging. I thought, "I bet it's Nathan Milstein." It was. 

        Now flash forward 40 years. Recently I was researching the influence of Jewish music on jazz, and I learned that Nathan Milstein had studied with a klezmer: dance music. Got it?!

        I agree about 1917--but don't forget about James Reese Europe, Will Marion Cook, and particularly the Original Creole Orchestra.

        Was never crazy about the Swingles--they seemed to be gilding the lily. 

        Best--Peter G

        On Jun 17, 2014, at 3:42 PM, 'levi.marco@...' levi.marco@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:

         

        Oh yes Peter, the "Swing Era" is so called because the jazz of that time emphasized this important element of jazz music, possibly the more important (It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing...Ipse Duke Dixit!). Swing is not only related to jazz and the modern era. J.S Bach is the most beloved classical musician among the jazzmen that love his stunning scales, harmonies and his rhythms containing lots of  implicit and explicit swing.  They sometimes love to explore the Bach's music in a jazzy way (I remember the "Swingle Singers" from France, f.e.). And what about Domenico Scarlatti? The first time I listened to some of his harpsichord sonatas I told myself: Oh my God, that's bossa nova! Many years later I read a monography on this musician where my opinion was confirmed and explained with his stage at the Portuguese Court. You can easily imagine why that is related to some Scarlatti'! s south american influence (how much swing in samba, bossa nova etc!)

        Just a little highlight: 1917 is not the year when jazz was born but only the year when the first known jazz record was released. So the ODJB was the first Band to record  this music but not the only one to play it at the time.The rarely quoted " Wilbur Sweatman's Original Jass band" was already active in 1917/18 and this orchestra has nothing to envy to the O.D.J.B.

        Marco


        ----Messaggio originale----
        Da: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        Data: 17/06/2014 20.23
        A: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
        Ogg: Re: R: Re: [RedHotJazz] What a shame to be so lo-tech

         

        One other thing about the "swing era"--(I just gotta chime in here, even though I'm likely preaching to the choir.) Whenever I use the word "swing" with people, they say, "Oh, you mean the swing era, and big bands." Even musicians I know have no idea that "swing" in jazz is an action, not a style. Before it is a noun or adjective, it is a verb. Some American music was swinging even before 1900. 


        To my mind, this heartbeat of American music, coming as it did from work song, brass bands, and the sanctified church, is the "active ingredient" in all jazz styles--the river than runs through.

        PG
        On Jun 17, 2014, at 1:33 PM, David Brown johnhaleysims@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:


         







      • fearfeasa
        Really ??? George Lewis was influenced by Woody Herman, you mean. Lewis s St. Philip Street Break Down is only a simplified, bowdlerised version of Herman s
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 19, 2014
          Really ???  George Lewis was influenced by Woody Herman, you mean. Lewis's "St. Philip Street Break Down" is only a simplified, bowdlerised version of Herman's Chips Boogie Woogie (1940).

          On 20/06/2014, at 1:53 AM, PETER GERLER pgerler@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:

          …Woody was also influenced by George Lewis…


          PG


        • Michael Rader
          He actually wrote Woody Allen, although you re right in the latter part of your mail. Michael Rader ... He actually wrote Woody Allen, although you re right in
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 20, 2014
            He actually wrote Woody Allen, although you're right in the latter part of your mail.
            Michael Rader

            Am 20.06.2014 08:24, schrieb fearfeasa fearfeasa@... [RedHotJazz]:
             
            Really ???  George Lewis was influenced by Woody Herman, you mean. Lewis's "St. Philip Street Break Down" is only a simplified, bowdlerised version of Herman's Chips Boogie Woogie (1940).

            On 20/06/2014, at 1:53 AM, PETER GERLER pgerler@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:

            …Woody was also influenced by George Lewis…


            PG



          • fearfeasa
            I quoted the sentence exactly as Peter wrote it. Perhaps he wrote Woody Allen in an earlier post that I missed. Apologies to Peter if I got him wrong. It s
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 20, 2014
              I quoted the sentence exactly as Peter wrote it. Perhaps he wrote "Woody Allen" in an earlier post that I missed. Apologies to Peter if I got him wrong. It's no easier to follow the sequence of posts in this revived edition of RHJ than it was in the old one.

              On 20/06/2014, at 5:26 PM, Michael Rader Rader.Michael@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:

               

              He actually wrote Woody Allen, although you're right in the latter part of your mail.
              Michael Rader

              Am 20.06.2014 08:24, schrieb fearfeasa fearfeasa@... [RedHotJazz]:
               
              Really ???  George Lewis was influenced by Woody Herman, you mean. Lewis's "St. Philip Street Break Down" is only a simplified, bowdlerised version of Herman's Chips Boogie Woogie (1940).

              On 20/06/2014, at 1:53 AM, PETER GERLER pgerler@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:

              …Woody was also influenced by George Lewis…


              PG





            • PETER GERLER
              Zounds! I can t follow this. But I do hear George Lewis influence in Woody Allen s playing--particularly in the descending step arpeggios. Know what I mean?
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 20, 2014
                Zounds! I can't follow this. But I do hear George Lewis' influence in Woody Allen's playing--particularly in the descending step arpeggios. Know what I mean?

                On Jun 20, 2014, at 4:43 AM, fearfeasa fearfeasa@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:

                 

                I quoted the sentence exactly as Peter wrote it. Perhaps he wrote "Woody Allen" in an earlier post that I missed. Apologies to Peter if I got him wrong. It's no easier to follow the sequence of posts in this revived edition of RHJ than it was in the old one.


                On 20/06/2014, at 5:26 PM, Michael Rader Rader.Michael@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:

                 

                He actually wrote Woody Allen, although you're right in the latter part of your mail.
                Michael Rader

                Am 20.06.2014 08:24, schrieb fearfeasa fearfeasa@... [RedHotJazz]:
                 
                Really ???  George Lewis was influenced by Woody Herman, you mean. Lewis's "St. Philip Street Break Down" is only a simplified, bowdlerised version of Herman's Chips Boogie Woogie (1940).

                On 20/06/2014, at 1:53 AM, PETER GERLER pgerler@... [RedHotJazz] wrote:

                …Woody was also influenced by George Lewis…


                PG







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