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Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: Classic Jazz today in the UK

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  • Howard Rye
    on 28/7/05 12:52, robertgreenwood_54uk at robertgreenwood_54uk@yahoo.co.uk ... I don t really think it s you that s failed to make your point with sufficient
    Message 1 of 26 , Jul 28, 2005
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      on 28/7/05 12:52, robertgreenwood_54uk at robertgreenwood_54uk@...
      wrote:

      > I obviously haven't made my point with sufficient clarity. I don't
      > for one minute think that PC or multiculty killed traditional jazz.
      > Traditional jazz does persist, thrive even, in the UK. It's just that
      > you would not know it if you depended on your view of UK jazz through
      > the pages of the "quality" newspapers or by watching Jazz Britannia.

      I don't really think it's you that's failed to make your point with
      sufficient clarity, but me.

      The point I was trying to make, and made very badly, was that I can't see
      any reason to think that trad jazz is particularly a working-class music in
      Britain today. If I am right about this, then there is no reason to suppose
      that this is the reason why it is ignored by movers and shakers.

      I actually think the reason it's ignored, and I'm not disagreeing that it
      largely is, is the same reason that representational art gets such a tiny
      proportion of coverage of painting, best summed up I think as the belief
      that only what is technically innovative is creative. Add to this that the
      talentless and those who wish to maximise profits will always prefer to
      promote what can be imitated by purely technical means. Add to this that a
      large proportion of the British trad output is in fact neither innovative
      nor creative. I really don't think we need to consider class-based
      conspiracy theories.

      Oh, and I nearly forgot. Most of the action takes place outside London. This
      could, quite seriously, be the major factor.


      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
      howard@...
      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
    • Linda
      ... It is not hard to figure out what killed Trad jazz in England- 4 guys from Liverpool.-Linda
      Message 2 of 26 , Jul 28, 2005
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        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Howard Rye <howard@c...> wrote:
        >>
        > FWIW, I think your theory about trad jazz being killed by political
        > correctness and multiculturalism is bizarre to say the least.
        >
        It is not hard to figure out what killed Trad jazz in England- 4 guys
        from Liverpool.-Linda
      • Jon Noring
        ... Laugh. As a lover of the Liverpoolian 4 (a.k.a. Beatles), I do understand the role that rock and roll had on the modern music scene. I take a
        Message 3 of 26 , Jul 28, 2005
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          Linda wrote:
          > Howard Rye wrote:

          >> FWIW, I think your theory about trad jazz being killed by political
          >> correctness and multiculturalism is bizarre to say the least.

          > It is not hard to figure out what killed Trad jazz in England- 4 guys
          > from Liverpool.-Linda

          Laugh.

          As a lover of the Liverpoolian 4 (a.k.a. Beatles), I do understand the
          role that rock and roll had on the modern music scene.

          I take a libertarian/free market view of things. Things are the way
          they are. All that matters is that we can personally choose what we
          want to listen to. There's no need to lament anything -- lots of great
          music to go around to meet everyone's tastes.

          In my case, one minute I'm listening to Gene Kardos, the next minute
          Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor (*love* power organ), then
          Renaissance music, then late 60's psychedelic (love that), then late
          90's smooth jazz (love Richard Elliot and yes, even Kenny G), then
          back to Duke Ellington's Jungle Band of 1929-31. Simply put, I love
          most styles of music.

          In many ways, "trad" jazz was never dominant in the musical scene. It
          had its role, but if one looks at this from what type of music the
          public mostly bought, until the Swing Era sweet dance and personality
          music ruled the day. It was Swing Music that brought jazz to its first
          true dominance in the music scene (yeah, some might say Paul Whiteman
          did that, so I'll relent a little on this statement.)

          The cool thing is that there are so many styles and types of jazz to
          choose from -- all of it has its enjoyable moments (even the odd
          experimental "modern jazz" stuff sometimes intrigues me though the odd
          key and time signatures I have difficulty relating to.)

          Btw, when I first was introduced to jazz in a way which I really
          noticed it (though as a youngster I was drawn to it a little) was in
          my teen and early adult years when I listened to Carole King's "Jazz
          Man" (a more modern style of jazz, jump blues saxophone, played in the
          background), and Seals and Crofts 1975 recording of "I'll Play For
          You" (which has two really cool Dixieland-type clarinet solos.) How
          jazz fits into both these rock-era recordings is really quite good.

          It was these two recordings which got me consciously very interested
          in jazz and 78 record collecting. (There are a few other rock-era hits
          which included traditional jazz elements.) From there I experimented
          with all styles from earliest to newest, and I find over time my
          interests expanding. There is *great jazz* in all styles of jazz, from
          true "mouldy-fygge" trad stuff to contemporary jazz. (I have to say I
          am more partial to hot 30's style pre-swing jazz and some modern jump
          blues -- I loved Lavay Smith and Her Red Hot Skillet Lickers when I
          heard them last year: http://www.lavaysmith.com/ -- it was the damned
          hottest music I've ever listened to -- their CD is not very good.)

          Anyway, my $0.02 worth.

          Jon
        • Linda
          ... I can t take much 60 s rock.About all i can stand is House of The Rising Sun by Eric Burdon and the Animals, some of Janis Joplin s blues numbers and
          Message 4 of 26 , Jul 28, 2005
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            > In my case, one minute I'm listening to Gene Kardos, the next minute
            > Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor (*love* power organ), then
            > Renaissance music, then late 60's psychedelic (love that), then late
            > 90's smooth jazz (love Richard Elliot and yes, even Kenny G), then
            > back to Duke Ellington's Jungle Band of 1929-31. Simply put, I love
            > most styles of music.
            I can't take much 60's rock.About all i can stand is "House of The
            Rising Sun" by Eric Burdon and the Animals, some of Janis Joplin's
            blues numbers and some Jimi Hendrix acoustic guitar blues solos.Sorry
            but NO Beatles, Stones,The Creation( ever heard of them, Jon?),
            Jefferson Airplane.I don't even like 1930's and 1940's Swing- Way too
            modern sounding for me.I guess i am a real mouldy figge.And what
            happened to my favorite British Trad era clarinetist, Cy Laurie?That
            guy plays in the style of and really sounds like Johnny Dodds!-I only
            have 2 lp's of his. I wish i could find more!-Linda-( and how can
            anyone even mention Kenny G's name if they have heard Sidney Bechet!)
          • Mike
            There are plenty of gems from the 60 s for the fan of strictly blues based rock. One of my favorites is the John Mayall Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton.
            Message 5 of 26 , Jul 28, 2005
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              There are plenty of "gems" from the 60's for the fan of strictly "blues
              based" rock. One of my favorites is the John Mayall "Bluesbreakers"
              with Eric Clapton. None of the "Cream" excessive and repetitive
              jamming here. Also of note are the Rolling Stones sides cut in the
              Chess Studio. I'm a rock and roll fan though I much prefer jazz. One
              other hidden gem is Johnny Winter's first album which I can't remember
              the name of.



              --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Linda" <jazzgirl1920s@a...> wrote:
              > I can't take much 60's rock.About all i can stand is "House of The
              > Rising Sun" by Eric Burdon and the Animals, some of Janis Joplin's
              > blues numbers and some Jimi Hendrix acoustic guitar blues solos.Sorry
              > but NO Beatles, Stones,The Creation( ever heard of them, Jon?),
              > Jefferson Airplane.I don't even like 1930's and 1940's Swing- Way too
              > modern sounding for me.I guess i am a real mouldy figge.And what
              > happened to my favorite British Trad era clarinetist, Cy Laurie?That
              > guy plays in the style of and really sounds like Johnny Dodds!-I only
              > have 2 lp's of his. I wish i could find more!-Linda-( and how can
              > anyone even mention Kenny G's name if they have heard Sidney Bechet!)
            • robertgreenwood_54uk
              I absolutely agree. All great music has an awareness of, and adds to, a great tradition by facing backwards as well as forwards. Robert Greenwood. ... by ...
              Message 6 of 26 , Jul 29, 2005
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                I absolutely agree. All great music has an awareness of, and adds to,
                a great tradition by facing backwards as well as forwards.

                Robert Greenwood.

                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@y...> wrote:
                > Traditional JAZZ,
                > In order to have something as a tradition, homework should be done
                by
                > contemporary and followers of that tradition at any point in order
                not
                > to break the chain.
                >
                > If one check out as an example, he'll find that in Classics Music
                > there were more than a few interesting new things that happened in
                the
                > 20th century. however, any one that want to be a serious Classics
                > musician, he must do some homework first. This includes as an
                example,
                > he must be able to play some Bach stuff, although it's obviously a
                > tradition. And he must sit in in an orchestra that play that old
                stuff
                > every now and then. Now, he can write new stuff. Thats tradition ,
                and
                > I doubt anyone would claim that Classics music is not a traditional
                > music, or that it's not continuum art , at the same time. It's not
                > mutual exclusive.
                >
                > Jazz has a problem IMO that several (and I'm not saying all of them)
                > contemporary musicians in the Jazz world are not doing their
                homework,
                > and without naming any I even consider it as a trend. A trend that
                > someone is playing his "own" music rather than a tradition , thats
                > because he don't think he has to. IMO, a (Jazz) musician , as modern
                > as he can be, if he don't know (musically) about Louis Armstrong or
                > others from that era it's exactly like a (Classics) musician who
                don't
                > know about Mozart.
                >
                > Modern listeners to Classics music sure can tell about Mozart. It's
                > not obvious for modern Jazz listeners to know about Armstrong.
                >
                > No wonder that Jazz is fading away as a tradition, although it still
                > has all the required elements to be one.
                >
                > tommersl
              • robertgreenwood_54uk
                Howard: I obviously did NOT make my point with sufficient clarity. I didn t mean to give the impression that the proletarian gin palaces of Tulse Hill or the
                Message 7 of 26 , Jul 29, 2005
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                  Howard: I obviously did NOT make my point with sufficient clarity. I
                  didn't mean to give the impression that the proletarian gin palaces
                  of Tulse Hill or the Mile End Road nightly resound to the strains of
                  Bad Penny Blues, or that traditional jazz forms an important part of
                  contemporary white English working class culture. What I said was
                  that the audience for traditional jazz in Britain is composed
                  largely, though not exclusively, of admittedly ageing members of the
                  white English working class. I advanced this as one reason (not the
                  sole reason) for its lack of coverage, or even acknowledgement, from
                  what you have called "the movers and shakers."
                  I think you are right that attention is usually given only to work
                  that appears to be technically innovative. To work well, as many
                  British traditional jazz musicians do, within a fixed area without
                  making any special innovations doesn't seem to be valued at all. I
                  always suspect, though, that it is novelty rather than real
                  innovation that attracts most attention. When modern jazz was
                  fashionable, attention was lavished on figures as Charles Lloyd and
                  Ahmed Jamal while, for example, Art Pepper and Warne Marsh were
                  ignored. Then the pseudo-intellectuals discovered the Beatles and
                  suddenly We All Live in a Yellow Submarine was as great a report on
                  the human condition as Schubert's Winterreise and jazz (all jazz) was
                  forgotten.
                  Robert Greenwood.
                • Hugh Crozier
                  Hi Linda and all. I had quite a lengthy reply for you a day or two ago and then my dear wife thoughtfully logged me off without saving it. First, Linda, thanks
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jul 29, 2005
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                    Hi Linda and all. I had quite a lengthy reply for you a day or two ago and then my dear wife thoughtfully logged me off without saving it.

                    First, Linda, thanks so much for the Morton Day tape - I am going on holiday tomorrow but as soon as I can I will copy it digitally. I'll either send you a CD or else if we chat on MSN I can transfer it to you immediately that way. Up to you.

                    I knew Cy Laurie in the 70s and 80s. He had a club in Central London in the 50s and 60s which featured scandalous all-night sessions on Saturday nights. As it happens, Bill Brunskill often played at these but I was a bit too young to get involved. As another perspective on the debate on jazz in Britian it is worth noting that 'trad' jazz (how I loathe that adjective!) was seen as at least a challenge to the establishment if not actually an emblem of the downfall of civilised society! Cy Laurie and the all-night sessions were definitely a part of that.

                    I co-founded a band that is still going called the Blackbottom Stompers and Cy Laurie took over on clarinet when the original clarinettist, John Maddocks, left. Cy was, of course, very well known not only from his club but also the Esquire sides Linda mentions. I was therefore very keen to hear the band after he joined and was frankly disappointed because he played out of tune throughout. I think he was trying to overblow so no doubt he blew the instrument sharp.

                    There is actually a musician in the UK, George Huxley (who coincidentally sometimes works with Maddocks these days), who produces a far more authentic Dodds sound than Cy Laurie did. Moreover, while there is no doubt that Cy's enthusiasm shines through the Esquire sidea I remember my disillusionment when I first heard them (strangely enough that happened in Maddocks's house!). It was not so much Cy as the rest of the band. By that time I was already familiar with the classics of the 20s, including most of Dodds's output, and the Cy Laurie band simply wasn't up to it.

                    So I don't want to pour cold water on Linda's enthusiasm and maybe my recollection is tarnished by Cy playing so far out of tune, but Cy's place in British jazz history seems to me to be warranted more by his status as a 'figure' of the 1950s and 60s rather than his musical legacy.

                    I'm sure other Brits must have heard Cy with the Blackbottom Stompers, perhaps at the Mitre in Greenwich.

                    Incidentally, I don't think there has ever been a working class following for classic jazz in this country. What both shared was a kind of anti-establishment aura. Middle-class sentiments therefore lumped the two together but they never were bedfellows althought the proletarian origins of the music recommended it to Trades Unionists and others who needed 'authentic' symbols of their own orientation. Sure, parade bands accompanied CND marches and TU parades, but part of that was the fact that they were mobile and could therefore keep up with marchers. There is still a market for such bands today, including the daily Walt Disney train to Eurodisney (or it did, at least). I don't think anyone would suggest that the Walt Disney corporation is particularly proletarian.

                    Hugh Crozier


                    Linda <jazzgirl1920s@...> wrote:
                    > In my case, one minute I'm listening to Gene Kardos, the next minute
                    > Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor (*love* power organ), then
                    > Renaissance music, then late 60's psychedelic (love that), then late
                    > 90's smooth jazz (love Richard Elliot and yes, even Kenny G), then
                    > back to Duke Ellington's Jungle Band of 1929-31. Simply put, I love
                    > most styles of music.
                    I can't take much 60's rock.About all i can stand is "House of The
                    Rising Sun" by Eric Burdon and the Animals, some of Janis Joplin's
                    blues numbers and some Jimi Hendrix acoustic guitar blues solos.Sorry
                    but NO Beatles, Stones,The Creation( ever heard of them, Jon?),
                    Jefferson Airplane.I don't even like 1930's and 1940's Swing- Way too
                    modern sounding for me.I guess i am a real mouldy figge.And what
                    happened to my favorite British Trad era clarinetist, Cy Laurie?That
                    guy plays in the style of and really sounds like Johnny Dodds!-I only
                    have 2 lp's of his. I wish i could find more!-Linda-( and how can
                    anyone even mention Kenny G's name if they have heard Sidney Bechet!)






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                  • robertgreenwood_54uk
                    I am not sure if Hugh mentions anywhere in his posting the fact that Cy Laurie died in 2002. I think Hugh gives a very fair assessment of Laurie. May I mention
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jul 29, 2005
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                      I am not sure if Hugh mentions anywhere in his posting the fact that Cy
                      Laurie died in 2002. I think Hugh gives a very fair assessment of
                      Laurie. May I mention my own favourite clarinettist among UK
                      traditional or classic jazz performers? Alan Cooper. The last I heard
                      was that he had retired to Hay-on-Wye and is now only playing
                      occasionally. I always feel that he never recorded enough. There is a
                      CD on Jazz Crusade of him playing in a pick-up band put together by
                      Johnny Parker and including Ken Colyer and Graham Stewart. This was
                      recorded live at the 100 Club. I was at that gig and it was sheer joy
                      to hear Cooper playing with the Guv'nor. Cooper also appears on the
                      Richard Sudhalter Anglo-American Alliance sessions released on 77, and,
                      of course, he is on all of the early recordings by the Temperance
                      Seven, alongside the great and much-missed John RT Davies.
                      Robert Greenwood.
                    • Howard Rye
                      on 29/7/05 10:47, robertgreenwood_54uk at robertgreenwood_54uk@yahoo.co.uk ... Agreed 100%. I d go further and suspect that most people do not actually realize
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jul 29, 2005
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                        on 29/7/05 10:47, robertgreenwood_54uk at robertgreenwood_54uk@...
                        wrote:

                        > I
                        > always suspect, though, that it is novelty rather than real
                        > innovation that attracts most attention.

                        Agreed 100%. I'd go further and suspect that most people do not actually
                        realize that there is any distinction, and I think I would reiterate the
                        point that it is very much in the interests of entrepreneurs to encourage
                        these confusions, and that commentators in the mainstream press are largely
                        part of "the industry", however defined.

                        But, facing in the other direction, I do think one of the problems facing
                        traditional jazz is that there are so many participants who have exhausted
                        their creativity and are just repeating themselves, which is no doubt why
                        younger bands when you do find them come as a breath of fresh air. The point
                        may be a silly one but if you picked a trad gig at random you would be very
                        lucky to convert even an artistically sensitive person to the notion that
                        this was a significant creative music. What you would more likely encounter
                        would be a bunch of tired old farts producing a very tired old noise.

                        Others have made very valid points about tradition, but a significant
                        consideration here is the extent to which European revivalism has divorced
                        itself from its roots. Perhaps exposure to the new generation in New Orleans
                        would work wonders!

                        Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                        howard@...
                        Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
                      • robertgreenwood_54uk
                        if you picked a trad gig at random you would be very ... that ... encounter ... On the whole, I think you are right, Howard, but I would make a couple of
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jul 29, 2005
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                          if you picked a trad gig at random you would be very
                          > lucky to convert even an artistically sensitive person to the notion
                          that
                          > this was a significant creative music. What you would more likely
                          encounter
                          > would be a bunch of tired old farts producing a very tired old noise.
                          >

                          On the whole, I think you are right, Howard, but I would make a couple
                          of exceptions among UK traditional jazz players for Alan Cooper and
                          Cuff Billett.
                          I think an "artistically sensitive person" would also be appalled at
                          the parochialism of most this music's followers. Very few of them
                          follow up their interest by looking into the origins of the music they
                          supposedly love.
                          Robert.
                        • Michael Rader
                          While I don t want to put forward any hypotheses on the nature of British trad audiences, there is one point regarding creativity - most bands and musicians
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jul 29, 2005
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                            While I don't want to put forward any hypotheses on the nature of British trad audiences, there is one point regarding creativity - most bands and musicians have been playing virtually the same style for decades while their models (the bands they use as a point of departure) existed for a few years at best. Even the best musicians were accused of lacking creativity once they settled into routines, like Louis Armstrong with the All-Stars.

                            Best

                            Michael Rader

                            RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com schrieb am 29.07.05 14:19:53:
                            >
                            > if you picked a trad gig at random you would be very
                            > > lucky to convert even an artistically sensitive person to the notion
                            > that
                            > > this was a significant creative music. What you would more likely
                            > encounter
                            > > would be a bunch of tired old farts producing a very tired old noise.
                            > >
                            >
                            > On the whole, I think you are right, Howard, but I would make a couple
                            > of exceptions among UK traditional jazz players for Alan Cooper and
                            > Cuff Billett.
                            > I think an "artistically sensitive person" would also be appalled at
                            > the parochialism of most this music's followers. Very few of them
                            > follow up their interest by looking into the origins of the music they
                            > supposedly love.
                            > Robert.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


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                          • Hugh Crozier
                            What you would more likely encounter would be a bunch of tired old farts producing a very tired old noise. Damn your impudence Sir! Maybe you go to the wrong
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jul 29, 2005
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                              What you would more likely encounter
                              would be a bunch of tired old farts producing a very tired old noise.



                              Damn your impudence Sir! Maybe you go to the wrong gigs.

                              Seriously, though, while I agree there are a number of very very mediocre bands about whose artistic merit seems to rest on the belief that the louder the out of tune banjo the better, I still feel when I play that I am trying for new ideas within the overall tradition. I take it that this is notion of 'innovation' as opposed to 'novelty'. Just as James P Johnson said, when questioned about atonal jazz, that he did not feel that the tonal had been fully explored, my opinion is that the closer one comes to the limits of classic jazz the further one discovers that the limits have receded. This paradox is not unlike the paradox of oil exploration - the more oil that is used by the world the more is discovered.

                              There are people playing today, old and young farts alike, who are sufficiently knowledgeable about the music and sufficiently in control of their instruments to be able to explore with confidence. I assure Howard that this does happen and that when it does it is entirely satisfactory for performers and for those audience members who are sensitive enough to realise what is happening.

                              But, being realistic, I have to agree that too often the limit of audience appreciation is 'Ice Cream' and the musical aspiration of some truly dreadful bands ends with the King of the Swingers. However, Howard, please don't write us all off because trad still rules the roost too often. Remember, too, that jazz players have to be paid - it was Roger Horton's famous maxim that when banjos are ringing, tills are singing.

                              I love this music but I also love baroque music, early rock 'n' roll and I greatly enjoy Anglican choral singing and occasional organ playing. Classic jazz scores points off all these and remains my first love. If I thought for a moment I could be described as a tired old fart producing a tired old noise I would give it up today and embrace Purcell, Bach, Wesley, Parry, Blow, Stanford and all the other greats of Church music.

                              Hugh Crozier




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                            • Linda
                              ... Stompers and Cy Laurie took over on clarinet when the original clarinettist, John Maddocks, left. Cy was, of course, very well known not only from his club
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jul 30, 2005
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                                >
                                > I co-founded a band that is still going called the Blackbottom
                                Stompers and Cy Laurie took over on clarinet when the original
                                clarinettist, John Maddocks, left. Cy was, of course, very well known
                                not only from his club but also the Esquire sides Linda mentions. I
                                was therefore very keen to hear the band after he joined and was
                                frankly disappointed because he played out of tune throughout. I
                                think he was trying to overblow so no doubt he blew the instrument
                                sharp.
                                >
                                > There is actually a musician in the UK, George Huxley (who
                                coincidentally sometimes works with Maddocks these days), who
                                produces a far more authentic Dodds sound than Cy Laurie did. >

                                I have a Blackbottom Stompers Lp on VJM LC 13S but unfortunately John
                                Maddocks is on clarinet instead of Cy Laurie.Are there any Lp's of
                                this band with Cy Laurie?The only recording i have of Cy Laurie past
                                his 1950's Esquire period is Max Collie Rhythm Aces on Reality Lp
                                R105 1 W-It is a live concert recording made in Bremen, West Germany
                                on September 28, 1971.Are there any other recordings of Cy Laurie
                                with this band or any other band after the 1950's Esquire period when
                                he lead his own band?

                                John R.T. Davies sent me an Lp acetate of Cy Laurie but he didn't
                                identify the source of the recordings or the date they were made-
                                These titles were on the acetate- 1. Joe Turner Blues 2. Buddy's
                                Habits 3. Canal Street Blues 4. Runnin' Wild 5. Krooked Blues
                                6.Gatemouth 7. Bugle Boy March- Can anyone tell me if these titles
                                match some Esquire Lp recorded in the 1950's?

                                Would it be possible to send me a tape or cd copy of some recordings
                                with George Huxley? You mention he produces a far more authentic
                                Dodds sound than Cy Laurie did- I would really like to hear him and
                                compare his Dodds sound to Cy Laurie- thanks, Linda
                              • Howard Rye
                                ... If no one knows the answers to these questions there is a Cy Laurie discography in Gerard Bielderman s Euro-Dixie discographies series, which has run to at
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jul 30, 2005
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                                  on 30/7/05 14:00, Linda at jazzgirl1920s@... wrote:

                                  > I have a Blackbottom Stompers Lp on VJM LC 13S but unfortunately John
                                  > Maddocks is on clarinet instead of Cy Laurie.Are there any Lp's of
                                  > this band with Cy Laurie?The only recording i have of Cy Laurie past
                                  > his 1950's Esquire period is Max Collie Rhythm Aces on Reality Lp
                                  > R105 1 W-It is a live concert recording made in Bremen, West Germany
                                  > on September 28, 1971.Are there any other recordings of Cy Laurie
                                  > with this band or any other band after the 1950's Esquire period when
                                  > he lead his own band?
                                  >
                                  > John R.T. Davies sent me an Lp acetate of Cy Laurie but he didn't
                                  > identify the source of the recordings or the date they were made-
                                  > These titles were on the acetate- 1. Joe Turner Blues 2. Buddy's
                                  > Habits 3. Canal Street Blues 4. Runnin' Wild 5. Krooked Blues
                                  > 6.Gatemouth 7. Bugle Boy March- Can anyone tell me if these titles
                                  > match some Esquire Lp recorded in the 1950's?

                                  If no one knows the answers to these questions there is a Cy Laurie
                                  discography in Gerard Bielderman's Euro-Dixie discographies series, which
                                  has run to at least 5 editions (!) and would no doubt provide the answer.

                                  There is an LP with a quartet on Sunstreamer S/12L/A1 recorded at Eltham (a
                                  London suburb) on 29 September 1984 called "Shades of Cy".

                                  Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                                  howard@...
                                  Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
                                • Hugh Crozier
                                  OK - I ll ask him. I have a gig with George in October. I know he sells CDs at gigs but I don t know what s on them. Hugh ... Stompers and Cy Laurie took over
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Aug 15, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    OK - I'll ask him. I have a gig with George in October. I know he sells CDs at gigs but I don't know what's on them.

                                    Hugh

                                    Linda <jazzgirl1920s@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I co-founded a band that is still going called the Blackbottom
                                    Stompers and Cy Laurie took over on clarinet when the original
                                    clarinettist, John Maddocks, left. Cy was, of course, very well known
                                    not only from his club but also the Esquire sides Linda mentions. I
                                    was therefore very keen to hear the band after he joined and was
                                    frankly disappointed because he played out of tune throughout. I
                                    think he was trying to overblow so no doubt he blew the instrument
                                    sharp.
                                    >
                                    > There is actually a musician in the UK, George Huxley (who
                                    coincidentally sometimes works with Maddocks these days), who
                                    produces a far more authentic Dodds sound than Cy Laurie did. >

                                    I have a Blackbottom Stompers Lp on VJM LC 13S but unfortunately John
                                    Maddocks is on clarinet instead of Cy Laurie.Are there any Lp's of
                                    this band with Cy Laurie?The only recording i have of Cy Laurie past
                                    his 1950's Esquire period is Max Collie Rhythm Aces on Reality Lp
                                    R105 1 W-It is a live concert recording made in Bremen, West Germany
                                    on September 28, 1971.Are there any other recordings of Cy Laurie
                                    with this band or any other band after the 1950's Esquire period when
                                    he lead his own band?

                                    John R.T. Davies sent me an Lp acetate of Cy Laurie but he didn't
                                    identify the source of the recordings or the date they were made-
                                    These titles were on the acetate- 1. Joe Turner Blues 2. Buddy's
                                    Habits 3. Canal Street Blues 4. Runnin' Wild 5. Krooked Blues
                                    6.Gatemouth 7. Bugle Boy March- Can anyone tell me if these titles
                                    match some Esquire Lp recorded in the 1950's?

                                    Would it be possible to send me a tape or cd copy of some recordings
                                    with George Huxley? You mention he produces a far more authentic
                                    Dodds sound than Cy Laurie did- I would really like to hear him and
                                    compare his Dodds sound to Cy Laurie- thanks, Linda




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