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Re: [RedHotJazz] Sidney Arodin & "Up A Lazy River"

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  • Howard Rye
    If you search the archives of this group you will find detailed evidence that Arodin was not of African ancestry, not for many generations anyway, but I lack
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 24, 2013
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      If you search the archives of this group you will find detailed evidence
      that Arodin was not of African ancestry, not for many generations anyway,
      but I lack the time to dig it all out and present it again. It appears to
      have been a very rare instance in which African-Americans were mistaken in
      believing that someone was passing. I certainly always accepted that Arodin
      was a créole de couleur until Albert Haim (if memory serves) came up with
      the actual evidence.


      on 24/01/2013 12:41, fearfeasa at fearfeasa@... wrote:

      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > The late Jules Gallé, clarinetist with the Brunies Brothers band from Biloxi,
      > Mississippi, knew Arodin well. He told me in the early 1980s:
      >
      > (1) that the melody of Up a Lazy River was most definitely composed by Arodin
      > and was in fact derived from an original practice exercise used regularly by
      > Arodin as a warm-up;
      >
      > (2) that Arodin's original title for the piece was "Lazy Nigger" (sic!); and
      > 
      > (3) that, yes, Arodin WAS "colored passing for white." In that racist society
      > where a black man's efforts attracted something like one tenth of the pay of a
      > white man's, this was done often enough, by those who could get away with it,
      > and that his black compatriots used to laugh about the situation, and
      > applauded his business acumen.
      >
      > J. T. Dyamond.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
      howard@...
      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ron L'Herault
      What CD(s) have all the Monk Hazel material? Ronald L Herault Lab Supervisor, Biomaterials Division B.U. School of Dental Medicine 801 Albany Street S203
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 24, 2013
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        What CD(s) have all the Monk Hazel material?

        Ronald L'Herault

        Lab Supervisor, Biomaterials Division
        B.U. School of Dental Medicine
        801 Albany Street S203
        Roxbury, MA 02119




        -----Original Message-----
        From: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Andrew Homzy

        To the above questions, I have been re-visiting the wonderful 1928
        recordings of Monk Hazel & His Bienville Roof Orchestra
      • Robert
        Frog DGF5: Sizzling the Blues - New Orleans 1927-29. Which also includes the Johnnie Miller sides, the Louis Dumaines, the Jones-Collins Astoria Hot 8. Robert
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 24, 2013
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          Frog DGF5: Sizzling the Blues - New Orleans 1927-29.
          Which also includes the Johnnie Miller sides, the Louis Dumaines, the Jones-Collins Astoria Hot 8.

          Robert Greenwood.

          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Ron L'Herault" wrote:
          >
          > What CD(s) have all the Monk Hazel material?
          >
          > Ronald L'Herault
          >
          > Lab Supervisor, Biomaterials Division
          > B.U. School of Dental Medicine
          > 801 Albany Street S203
          > Roxbury, MA 02119
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Andrew Homzy
          >
          > To the above questions, I have been re-visiting the wonderful 1928
          > recordings of Monk Hazel & His Bienville Roof Orchestra
          >
        • Ron L'Herault
          Thanks! Ronald L Herault Lab Supervisor, Biomaterials Division B.U. School of Dental Medicine 801 Albany Street S203 Roxbury, MA 02119 ... From:
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 24, 2013
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            Thanks!

            Ronald L'Herault

            Lab Supervisor, Biomaterials Division
            B.U. School of Dental Medicine
            801 Albany Street S203
            Roxbury, MA 02119




            -----Original Message-----
            From: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Robert
            Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:59 AM
            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Sidney Arodin & "Up A Lazy River"

            Frog DGF5: Sizzling the Blues - New Orleans 1927-29.
            Which also includes the Johnnie Miller sides, the Louis Dumaines, the
            Jones-Collins Astoria Hot 8.

            Robert Greenwood.

            --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Ron L'Herault" wrote:
            >
            > What CD(s) have all the Monk Hazel material?
            >
            > Ronald L'Herault
            >
            > Lab Supervisor, Biomaterials Division
            > B.U. School of Dental Medicine
            > 801 Albany Street S203
            > Roxbury, MA 02119
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com]
            > On Behalf Of Andrew Homzy
            >
            > To the above questions, I have been re-visiting the wonderful 1928
            > recordings of Monk Hazel & His Bienville Roof Orchestra
            >




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          • Bob Eagle
            If Sidney was colored passing for white , then it started with his grandparents - his paternal grandfather (and his 6 children, including Sidney s dad,
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 24, 2013
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              If Sidney was "colored passing for white", then it started with his grandparents - his paternal grandfather (and his 6 children, including Sidney's dad, Victor) is listed at Westwego in the 1900 census as white.  The rest of the 50 people listed on that page were also presumably "passing", as they are all listed as "W" (white).  Victor, his father and his eldest brother were all "Fisherman" - maybe their attitude to race was temperred by working alongside black fishermen.

              20 years later, in New Orleans, Sidney and his wife are again listed as white, as were all 50 people listed on the page.
               
              I realise this doesn't disprove "passing", but if they were passing, the family did it for decades and they were very successful at it.  And if the family culture was "white" then it is likely that Sidney thought of himself that way.
               
              Unfortunately, this looks like being a comment by a performer designed to curry favor with an enthusiast.  People like Arodin and Brunies were so involved with the roots of the music that they shouldn't have felt the need to prove themselves to be black.
               
              Bob
               

              ________________________________
              From: fearfeasa <fearfeasa@...>
              To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2013 11:41 PM
              Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Sidney Arodin & "Up A Lazy River"


               

              The late Jules Gallé, clarinetist with the Brunies Brothers band from Biloxi, Mississippi, knew Arodin well. He told me in the early 1980s:

              (1) that the melody of Up a Lazy River was most definitely composed by Arodin and was in fact derived from an original practice exercise used regularly by Arodin as a warm-up;

              (2) that Arodin's original title for the piece was "Lazy Nigger" (sic!); and
              
              (3) that, yes, Arodin WAS "colored passing for white." In that racist society where a black man's efforts attracted something like one tenth of the pay of a white man's, this was done often enough, by those who could get away with it, and that his black compatriots used to laugh about the situation, and applauded his business acumen.

              J. T. Dyamond.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ory1886
              Most of the people living in Westwego in that period had moved there from the coast from the area around Caminada Bay which was wiped out by a hurricane in
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 24, 2013
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                Most of the people living in Westwego in that period had moved there from the coast from the area around Caminada Bay which was wiped out by a hurricane in 1892. It was a white community.
                John McCusker
                New Orleans

                Sent from my iPhone

                On Jan 24, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Bob Eagle <prof_hi_jinx@...> wrote:

                > If Sidney was "colored passing for white", then it started with his grandparents - his paternal grandfather (and his 6 children, including Sidney's dad, Victor) is listed at Westwego in the 1900 census as white. The rest of the 50 people listed on that page were also presumably "passing", as they are all listed as "W" (white). Victor, his father and his eldest brother were all "Fisherman" - maybe their attitude to race was temperred by working alongside black fishermen.
                >
                > 20 years later, in New Orleans, Sidney and his wife are again listed as white, as were all 50 people listed on the page.
                >
                > I realise this doesn't disprove "passing", but if they were passing, the family did it for decades and they were very successful at it. And if the family culture was "white" then it is likely that Sidney thought of himself that way.
                >
                > Unfortunately, this looks like being a comment by a performer designed to curry favor with an enthusiast. People like Arodin and Brunies were so involved with the roots of the music that they shouldn't have felt the need to prove themselves to be black.
                >
                > Bob
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: fearfeasa fearfeasa@...>
                > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2013 11:41 PM
                > Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Sidney Arodin & "Up A Lazy River"
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The late Jules Gallé, clarinetist with the Brunies Brothers band from Biloxi, Mississippi, knew Arodin well. He told me in the early 1980s:
                >
                > (1) that the melody of Up a Lazy River was most definitely composed by Arodin and was in fact derived from an original practice exercise used regularly by Arodin as a warm-up;
                >
                > (2) that Arodin's original title for the piece was "Lazy Nigger" (sic!); and
                > 
                > (3) that, yes, Arodin WAS "colored passing for white." In that racist society where a black man's efforts attracted something like one tenth of the pay of a white man's, this was done often enough, by those who could get away with it, and that his black compatriots used to laugh about the situation, and applauded his business acumen.
                >
                > J. T. Dyamond.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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