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Re: [RedHotJazz] Ma Rainey on the Red Hot Jazz Archive

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  • Bob Smith
    Dear Alan and Patrice, Many thanks for your input regarding the number of recordings made by Ma Rainey. According to the web-site ... keep on living ...
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 27 2:30 PM
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      Dear Alan and Patrice,

      Many thanks for your input regarding the number of recordings made by Ma Rainey.

      According to the web-site '... keep on living ...' there are only 94 titles (counting later recordings of the same titles as different titles), and these are all on the Red Hot Jazz Archive site. However, in addition, 19 titles have two takes that seem to be issued on the same Paramount label, bringing the grand total of viable recordings up to 119, thus validating the claim that Ma Rainey made more than a 100 recordings. I can only assume that those 19 titles had to be issued or re-issued using two different masters due to technical reasons (e.g. lost or damaged masters before the issue was complete). If anyone has any original Ma Rainey Paramounts it would be interesting to know if the matrix number scratched into the wax also includes the take number.

      Kind Regards

      Bob Smith


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    • ALAN BOND
      As with many artistes, no doubt the Ma Rainey sides would have had alternative masters in case of high demand. With the quality of the Paramount recordings
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 27 2:43 PM
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        As with many artistes, no doubt the Ma Rainey sides would have had alternative masters in case of high demand. With the quality of the Paramount recordings being somewhat lower than most, it probably meant that the masters wore out rather quicker that with the better quality labels so additional masters would have been essential. Having said that, I think you will find the Autograph label even worse as testified by the Oliver/Morton duets on that label. The late Richard Grandorge quoted Rex Harris as saying that the recording engineer used a hammer and chisel to cut the grooves while his elbow was nudged by Joe Oliver to indicate the notes  to be recorded. An interesting concept indeed !
        TTFN - 007


        ________________________________
        From: Bob Smith <robert.smith@...>
        To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012, 22:30
        Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Ma Rainey on the Red Hot Jazz Archive

        Dear Alan and Patrice,

        Many thanks for your input regarding the number of recordings made by Ma Rainey.

        According to the web-site '... keep on living ...' there are only 94 titles (counting later recordings of the same titles as different titles), and these are all on the Red Hot Jazz Archive site. However, in addition, 19 titles have two takes that seem to be issued on the same Paramount label, bringing the grand total of viable recordings up to 119, thus validating the claim that Ma Rainey made more than a 100 recordings. I can only assume that those 19 titles had to be issued or re-issued using two different masters due to technical reasons (e.g. lost or damaged masters before the issue was complete). If anyone has any original Ma Rainey Paramounts it would be interesting to know if the matrix number scratched into the wax also includes the take number.

        Kind Regards

        Bob Smith


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      • Patrice Champarou
        I checked, as promised, but never found time to send... The number of 94 is correct, I was confused by the fact that four alternative takes are listed
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 27 3:54 PM
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          I checked, as promised, but never found time to send...
          The number of 94 is correct, I was confused by the fact that four alternative takes are listed separately in B&GR (Bo-Weavil Blues, Grievin’ Hearted Blues, Sleep Taking Blues, and Black Eye Blues) which accounts for the apparent difference. The titles I suspected as missing were, in fact, listed under “solo discography” while I was expecting them in the “Georgia (Jazz) Band” list.

          I have counted 20 more alternative takes which are simply indicated by a number on the same line, so that would make a total of 24 known extra takes.

          There are also 49 single takes which are mentioned as –2, –3, or even –4, could we imagine that a few of these were preceded by something more than false starts...?

          Patrice


          From: Bob Smith
          Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 PM
          To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Ma Rainey on the Red Hot Jazz Archive


          Dear Alan and Patrice,

          Many thanks for your input regarding the number of recordings made by Ma Rainey.

          According to the web-site '... keep on living ...' there are only 94 titles (counting later recordings of the same titles as different titles), and these are all on the Red Hot Jazz Archive site. However, in addition, 19 titles have two takes that seem to be issued on the same Paramount label, bringing the grand total of viable recordings up to 119, thus validating the claim that Ma Rainey made more than a 100 recordings. I can only assume that those 19 titles had to be issued or re-issued using two different masters due to technical reasons (e.g. lost or damaged masters before the issue was complete). If anyone has any original Ma Rainey Paramounts it would be interesting to know if the matrix number scratched into the wax also includes the take number.

          Kind Regards

          Bob Smith

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        • Patrice Champarou
          Ouch! Sorry everyone, I though I had held this stupid, nightly remark... poor memory denied by all evidence, the matrix number did appear on the label, but
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 28 5:46 AM
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            Ouch! Sorry everyone, I though I had held this stupid, nightly remark... poor memory denied by all evidence, the matrix number did appear on the label, but never followed by the take number... so Bob’s question was the relevant one - and the answer is quite probably “yes”.
            Apologies again – not on the head, please !
            Patrice

            From: Patrice Champarou
            Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 1:13 AM
            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Ma Rainey on the Red Hot Jazz Archive


            > If anyone has any original Ma Rainey Paramounts it would be interesting to know if the matrix number scratched into the wax also includes the take number.
            Sorry Bob, I failed to reply to that part. I do not own any original Paramount, but back in my own Middle-Ages, that is... stupidly enough, years before I learnt that discographies existed, I wore my eyes looking at matrix numbers from the photos which appeared in various publications. The were not scratched on the wax (as on some LP’s) but clearly printed on the label. And regarding Paramount, since they kept no files, I suppose this was the only way discographers managed to know of alternative takes.
            Patrice

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