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Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: Gus Aiken - verified recordings?

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  • Howard Rye
    No, sorry, I hadn¹t actually related this to the trip to Cuba, and talked nonsense as a result. I am actively working on this at the moment (for other reasons
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 24, 2012
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      No, sorry, I hadn¹t actually related this to the trip to Cuba, and talked
      nonsense as a result.

      I am actively working on this at the moment (for other reasons than Gus) but
      the last gig I currently have for Gonzell White and Her Jazzerinos (the
      billing varies from gig to gig) is with the Jimmy Cooper Revue at the Gayety
      Theater, Worcester, MA, in mid-April 1923. Though the report quoted in
      Storyville 1996-7 is anticipatory, this is consistent with the notion that
      they went to Cuba in late April or early May.

      It follows I think that here as elsewhere Perry Bradford was recalling how
      things were rather than the specific date which in this case Albert McCarthy
      says he claimed to be recalling. I suppose it is just conceivable that he on
      the 17 May 1923 date, but not very probable. These recording dates do come
      from the Columbia files and are unlikely to be wrong.

      It is conceivable that Havana passenger lists survive but if they do I doubt
      they will be digitized any time soon!


      on 24/02/2012 09:05, Michael Rader at Rader.Michael@... wrote:

      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > If I understand you correctly, this would imply either that the date given for
      > the Gulf Coast Seven session is wrong, i.e. that the session took place
      > earlier, or that Gonzell White's company left for Cuba later than previously
      > thought, i.e. after 17 May 1923. Are there any passenger lists showing when
      > the company travelled to Cuba?
      >
      > There is no suggestion that Gus Aiken played solos on any of the big band
      > recordings of the 1930s. The interview with Pops Foster printed in "Oh, Mr.
      > Jelly" suggests that he tried to change his style to sound more like Louis
      > Armstrong. This is borne out by the recordings with Bechet where he sounds
      > like a rather lacklustre Armstrong disciple.
      >
      > Michael Rader
      > Karlsruhe, Germany
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
      howard@...
      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bob Eagle
      Once again, assuming that they took the Orizaba both ways, the voyage took a maximum of 7 days (the round trip being 14 days), but maybe only (say) 6 days each
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 24, 2012
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        Once again, assuming that they took the Orizaba both ways, the voyage took a maximum of 7 days (the round trip being 14 days), but maybe only (say) 6 days each way, to allow a day at each end to load and unload.
         
        If the Orizaba was arriving in New York on 2, 16 and 30 January 1923 (as we know it was), in May it was arriving in New York on 8 and 22 May.  If the troupe had arrived in Havana by 26 May, they would be expected to have arrived in Havana on 15 May (the midpoint between 8 and 22), the Orizaba having left New York about 8-9 May 1923.  The ship's next arrival in Cuba would not be until 29 May.  This scenario is consistent with communications of the time - a letter to Chicago from Havana would have taken a few days, and typesetting would add an extra couple.
         
        If they took the Orizaba both ways, then they would be unavailable for any New York recording session after about 8-9 May 1923.  Even if they took another vessel, mail delivery times suggest that they could not have left after about 11 May 1923 - in other words, Gus could not be on either Gulf Coast Seven session, because he was in Havana on both session dates.
         
        Bob


        ________________________________
        From: Michael <Rader.Michael@...>
        To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 6:19 PM
        Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Gus Aiken - verified recordings?


         
        The Gonzell White company is reported as having been in Cuba from mid-May 1923 until the end of the year, so the interesting question if there are no passenger lists is when vessels departed for Cuba and how long the voyage took. The Chicago Defender of 26 May 1923 reports that they had arrived in Cuba (cf. Storyville 1996/7, p.189).

        Michael Rader
        Karlsruhe, Germany

        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Bob Eagle <prof_hi_jinx@...> wrote:
        >
        > Apologies for responding to my own post, but Orizaba kept arriving in New York from Havana on a regular fortnightly basis during 1923 - on 2, 16 and 30 January, 13 and 27 February etc.  This is consistent with an arrival on 4 December.
        > In theory, assuming the Gonzell White troupe booked a round trip on the same vessel, their stay could have been as little as 2 weeks - leaving NY (say) on about 13 November and boarding to return on about 27 November.
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Bob Eagle <prof_hi_jinx@...>
        > To: "RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com" <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 5:20 PM
        > Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: Gus Aiken - verified recordings?
        >
        >
        >  
        > I'm not aware of a passenger listing for the outward trip to Cuba, but the troupe arrived back in New York aboard the S. S. Orizaba on 4 December 1923.  Incidentally, they all led the purser a merry dance.  In Gus' case, he claimed to have been born in NewYork and said he was born 2 years later than he was.
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Michael <Rader.Michael@...>
        > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 5:05 PM
        > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Gus Aiken - verified recordings?
        >
        >  
        > If I understand you correctly, this would imply either that the date given for the Gulf Coast Seven session is wrong, i.e. that the session took place earlier, or that Gonzell White's company left for Cuba later than previously thought, i.e. after 17 May 1923. Are there any passenger lists showing when the company travelled to Cuba?
        >
        > There is no suggestion that Gus Aiken played solos on any of the big band recordings of the 1930s. The interview with Pops Foster printed in "Oh, Mr. Jelly" suggests that he tried to change his style to sound more like Louis Armstrong. This is borne out by the recordings with Bechet where he sounds like a rather lacklustre Armstrong disciple.
        >
        > Michael Rader
        > Karlsruhe, Germany
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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