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Re: Frank "Josh" Billings

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  • gerry.paton
    Apologies for reviving this old thread, but I just posted a lengthy article about Frank Billings on my website. For those interested, here s the direct link
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 29, 2011
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      Apologies for reviving this old thread, but I just posted a lengthy article about Frank Billings on my website. For those interested, here's the direct link (PDF format):

      http://brushbeat.org/documents/FrankJoshBillings.pdf

      Also accessible via the articles section of my site:

      http://brushbeat.org/Articles.php
    • Nick Dellow
      The train station photograph reproduced in your excellent article on Josh Billings was almost certainly taken on October 28th, 1928, when Paul Whiteman and
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 1, 2011
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        The "train station" photograph reproduced in your excellent article on Josh
        Billings was almost certainly taken on October 28th, 1928, when Paul
        Whiteman and his Orchestra - including Bix Beiderbecke and Frank Trumbauer
        - visited New Orleans during a long tour. Both Philip Evans in "Bix: The
        Leon Bix Beiderbecke Story" and Jean Paul Lion in "Bix: The Definitive
        Biography of a Jazz Legend" give the date of the photograph as October
        28th, 1928, and state that it shows Bix and Trumbauer, not Bix and
        Billings. In the earlier biography "Bix: Man And Legend" (by Richard
        Sudhalter and Philip Evans) the photo is stated to have been taken during
        the Spring of 1929, when the Whiteman Orchestra was en route to Hollywood
        to make "The King Of Jazz", but other photographs taken during the same
        period show Whiteman to be fatter and older-looking.

        Another photograph taken a few minutes earlier (or later) than the one
        reproduced in your article shows the Whiteman band's clarinettist Irving
        Friedman, Bix and Whiteman himself on the same train platform.
        Incidentally, Bix, Whiteman and Trumbauer are wearing identical hats, and
        all except Whiteman are wearing similar grey suits. This may signify that
        the apparel was bought by the Whiteman office for the band members to wear
        during the tour. Whiteman is wearing a white suit.

        I am sure that it is Frank Trumbauer not Josh Billings in the photo in your
        article, and the evidence available suggests that this is the case. Another
        clue is the fact that in the Metronome article the photo of Bix and
        Trumbauer was reproduced courtesy of Frank Trumbauer.

        Finally, I'd like to extend my gratitude to Albert Haim for his help in
        providing important information concerning this photograph.


        Nick


        On 29 November 2011 22:58, gerry.paton <gerry.paton@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Apologies for reviving this old thread, but I just posted a lengthy
        > article about Frank Billings on my website. For those interested, here's
        > the direct link (PDF format):
        >
        > http://brushbeat.org/documents/FrankJoshBillings.pdf
        >
        > Also accessible via the articles section of my site:
        >
        > http://brushbeat.org/Articles.php
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • gerry.paton
        Nick, many thanks for your input. I m going to have to do some rewriting it seems! Personally, Bix s companion doesn t look like Tram to me, but the
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 1, 2011
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          Nick, many thanks for your input. I'm going to have to do some rewriting it seems!

          Personally, Bix's companion doesn't look like 'Tram' to me, but the evidence seems to be stacked in that direction so I need to clarify things and include this info - I'll probably leave the photo in but with a serious question mark as to whether it is actually Billings and then leave the reader to decide.

          Again, thank you for your input.


          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Nick Dellow <nick.dellow@...> wrote:
          >
          > The "train station" photograph reproduced in your excellent article on Josh
          > Billings was almost certainly taken on October 28th, 1928, when Paul
          > Whiteman and his Orchestra - including Bix Beiderbecke and Frank Trumbauer
          > - visited New Orleans during a long tour. Both Philip Evans in "Bix: The
          > Leon Bix Beiderbecke Story" and Jean Paul Lion in "Bix: The Definitive
          > Biography of a Jazz Legend" give the date of the photograph as October
          > 28th, 1928, and state that it shows Bix and Trumbauer, not Bix and
          > Billings. In the earlier biography "Bix: Man And Legend" (by Richard
          > Sudhalter and Philip Evans) the photo is stated to have been taken during
          > the Spring of 1929, when the Whiteman Orchestra was en route to Hollywood
          > to make "The King Of Jazz", but other photographs taken during the same
          > period show Whiteman to be fatter and older-looking.
          >
          > Another photograph taken a few minutes earlier (or later) than the one
          > reproduced in your article shows the Whiteman band's clarinettist Irving
          > Friedman, Bix and Whiteman himself on the same train platform.
          > Incidentally, Bix, Whiteman and Trumbauer are wearing identical hats, and
          > all except Whiteman are wearing similar grey suits. This may signify that
          > the apparel was bought by the Whiteman office for the band members to wear
          > during the tour. Whiteman is wearing a white suit.
          >
          > I am sure that it is Frank Trumbauer not Josh Billings in the photo in your
          > article, and the evidence available suggests that this is the case. Another
          > clue is the fact that in the Metronome article the photo of Bix and
          > Trumbauer was reproduced courtesy of Frank Trumbauer.
          >
          > Finally, I'd like to extend my gratitude to Albert Haim for his help in
          > providing important information concerning this photograph.
          >
          >
          > Nick
          >
          >
          > On 29 November 2011 22:58, gerry.paton <gerry.paton@...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Apologies for reviving this old thread, but I just posted a lengthy
          > > article about Frank Billings on my website. For those interested, here's
          > > the direct link (PDF format):
          > >
          > > http://brushbeat.org/documents/FrankJoshBillings.pdf
          > >
          > > Also accessible via the articles section of my site:
          > >
          > > http://brushbeat.org/Articles.php
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • gerry.paton
          Another clue is the fact that in the Metronome article the photo of Bix and Trumbauer was reproduced courtesy of Frank Trumbauer. There s no mention of this
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 1, 2011
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            "Another clue is the fact that in the Metronome article the photo of Bix and Trumbauer was reproduced courtesy of Frank Trumbauer."

            There's no mention of this in the Metronome article Nick (I own a copy). Perhaps in one of the other publications that you mentioned? Until I've checked those references (will do so in the New Year) I'll leave the photo in.

            I have rewritten that section, however, so that it's only a possibility that the photo is of Josh (and not a certainty). Will change things again if necessary (once I've checked the other publications - thanks again!)
          • Nick Dellow
            Sorry Gerry, I didn t give enough related information with respect to the Metronome photo and the fact that it was originally reproduced in the magazine
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 2, 2011
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              Sorry Gerry, I didn't give enough related information with respect to the
              Metronome photo and the fact that it was originally reproduced in the
              magazine courtesy of Frank Trumbauer.

              There are actually two editions of Metronome that include this photo
              - November 1938 and July 1940. On page 19 of the November 1938 edition,
              there is an article entitled "Bix" by Frank Trumbauer. There are two photos
              on that page. One is of Bix and Tram, which is the same as that given in
              the July 1940 Metronome, reproduced in your article. The caption reads "Bix
              and Trumbauer" (no credit specified). The other photo on the page is the
              one of Friedman, Bix and Whiteman on the same train platform (as also
              referred to in my previous message). The caption reads "Izzy Friedman
              (clarinetist), Bix and Whiteman. (Pictures this page courtesy Frank
              Trumbauer.)" As the caption specifies that both photos are "courtesy Frank
              Trumbauer" we can safely assume that the original source of the Metronome
              photo, as reproduced in your article, is Frank Trumbauer.


              Nick


              On 1 December 2011 23:08, gerry.paton <gerry.paton@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > "Another clue is the fact that in the Metronome article the photo of Bix
              > and Trumbauer was reproduced courtesy of Frank Trumbauer."
              >
              > There's no mention of this in the Metronome article Nick (I own a copy).
              > Perhaps in one of the other publications that you mentioned? Until I've
              > checked those references (will do so in the New Year) I'll leave the photo
              > in.
              >
              > I have rewritten that section, however, so that it's only a possibility
              > that the photo is of Josh (and not a certainty). Will change things again
              > if necessary (once I've checked the other publications - thanks again!)
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • gerry.paton
              Many thanks for the clarification Nick. It looks like I should pull the photo as it s only going to muddy the waters. I ll rewrite that section when I have a
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 2, 2011
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                Many thanks for the clarification Nick. It looks like I should pull the photo as it's only going to muddy the waters. I'll rewrite that section when I have a moment. I already have a known photo of Josh in the article, plus the info re Bix still holds up, so not a huge loss.

                Thanks again.

                Gerry

                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Nick Dellow <nick.dellow@...> wrote:
                >
                > Sorry Gerry, I didn't give enough related information with respect to the
                > Metronome photo and the fact that it was originally reproduced in the
                > magazine courtesy of Frank Trumbauer.
                >
                > There are actually two editions of Metronome that include this photo
                > - November 1938 and July 1940. On page 19 of the November 1938 edition,
                > there is an article entitled "Bix" by Frank Trumbauer. There are two photos
                > on that page. One is of Bix and Tram, which is the same as that given in
                > the July 1940 Metronome, reproduced in your article. The caption reads "Bix
                > and Trumbauer" (no credit specified). The other photo on the page is the
                > one of Friedman, Bix and Whiteman on the same train platform (as also
                > referred to in my previous message). The caption reads "Izzy Friedman
                > (clarinetist), Bix and Whiteman. (Pictures this page courtesy Frank
                > Trumbauer.)" As the caption specifies that both photos are "courtesy Frank
                > Trumbauer" we can safely assume that the original source of the Metronome
                > photo, as reproduced in your article, is Frank Trumbauer.
                >
                >
                > Nick
                >
                >
                > On 1 December 2011 23:08, gerry.paton <gerry.paton@...> wrote:
                >
                > > **
                > >
                > >
                > > "Another clue is the fact that in the Metronome article the photo of Bix
                > > and Trumbauer was reproduced courtesy of Frank Trumbauer."
                > >
                > > There's no mention of this in the Metronome article Nick (I own a copy).
                > > Perhaps in one of the other publications that you mentioned? Until I've
                > > checked those references (will do so in the New Year) I'll leave the photo
                > > in.
                > >
                > > I have rewritten that section, however, so that it's only a possibility
                > > that the photo is of Josh (and not a certainty). Will change things again
                > > if necessary (once I've checked the other publications - thanks again!)
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
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