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Re: [RedHotJazz] Noone and Procope

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  • lastofthebarons
    I ve got to say that I agree with Dave Green, not Dave Brown regarding Benny Waters tone on clarinet. I saw him many times from the 70s to the 80s and was
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 12, 2011
      I've got to say that I agree with Dave Green, not Dave Brown regarding Benny Waters' tone on clarinet. I saw him many times from the 70s to the 80s and was always impressed with it, particularly on slow numbers. I do agree with you Dave regarding his energy he would have made a fortune if he'd been able to bottle it. His sound on Tenor and Alto was bordering on the hard, particularly into the 80s his as well as the Century's. I think that that was largely due to his hard driving style but on ballads his tone on alto was lovely, perhaps not velvety but expressive none-the-less. He seemed give up tenor in his later years, I'm talking about his very late 80s and beyond.

      Cheers,

      Marc

      On 12 Sep 2011, at 10:55, David Brown wrote:

      > Hi Robert
      >
      > And excuse late reply -- I've been away.
      >
      > That Procope studied with Tio is extremely interesting and, as far as I can
      > tell, unreported elsewhere. It leads me to re-appraise his work on 'Deep
      > Creek' which I previously attributed to Morton. It would also enhance his
      > claim to be a real N.O. player rather than an ersatz.
      >
      > Also interesting that the wonderful Dave Green cites Waters clarinet as a
      > beautiful sound. I myself heard him on several occasions and, while admiring
      > his energy, do not have the memory of glorious sound on any instrument. Does
      > anybody know example of this on record ?
      >
      > In the old days, a player had one style and sound and maybe a problem I have
      > with retromen is that they can change hats so readily. What is their real
      > musical identity ?
      >
      > I have early Davern where he is playing like George but he later became more
      > eclectic and eventually moulded a style of some originality, even if his
      > influences, especially Noone, were always evident.
      >
      > Goodman essayed classical repertoire although not entirely successfully and
      > certainly not in the class of De Peyer or Brymer.
      >
      > All best
      >
      > Dave
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >



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    • David Brown
      Hi Marc Quite prepared to believe you and Dave Green but can t find any Waters on clarinet. Quite a lot Youtube but alto. Anybody point at some online or
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 12, 2011
        Hi Marc

        Quite prepared to believe you and Dave Green but can't find any Waters on
        clarinet. Quite a lot Youtube but alto.

        Anybody point at some online or anywhere else ?


        Dave


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      • stevenabrams78jazz
        HI DAVID: You might find Ben Waters on clarinet with King Oliver s Dixie Syncopators especially perhaps TIN ROOF blues. He also played with Clarence Williams
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 13, 2011
          HI DAVID:
          You might find Ben Waters on clarinet with King Oliver's Dixie Syncopators especially perhaps TIN ROOF blues.
          He also played with Clarence Williams Blue Five around 1925 perhaps on the Sarah Martin side doing Cushion Foot Stomp.

          Steven Abrams
          San Francisco

          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "David Brown" <johnhaleysims@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Marc
          >
          > Quite prepared to believe you and Dave Green but can't find any Waters on
          > clarinet. Quite a lot Youtube but alto.
          >
          > Anybody point at some online or anywhere else ?
          >
          >
          > Dave
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Bob Smith
          Dear David, I ve also got Ben Waters as sometimes possible, sometimes probable, and almost certain on Clarence Williams with King Oliver recordings in 1928,
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 14, 2011
            Dear David,

            I've also got Ben Waters as sometimes possible, sometimes probable, and almost certain on Clarence Williams with King Oliver recordings in 1928, thus:
            CW' Jazz Kings: Red River Blues and I Need You (possible) clt & alt 1928-05-29
            CW & His Orchestra: Long , Deep, And Wide; Speakeasy; Squeeze Me; New Down Home Blues (probably) ten & clt c.1928-08
            Katherine Henderson, CW and his Orchestra: Lonesome Lovesick Blues; Have You Felt That Way?; What Can You Do Without Me? (almost certain) ten c. 1928-10
            CW & His Orchestra: Wildflower Rag; Midnight Stomp; I'm Through (almost certain) ten & clt c. 1928-11
            CW & His Orchestra: Bozo; Longshoreman's Blues (almost certain) ten c.1928-11
            Katherine Henderson, CW and his Orchestra: Do It Baby; Mushy Love; If You Like Me (possibly) ten c. 1928-11
            CW & His Orchestra: Beau-Koo Jack; Sister Kate; Pane In The Glass (almost certain) ten & clt c. 1928-12

            Source: K.-B Rau

            Kind Regards

            Bob Smith



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          • David Brown
            Hi Bob Many thanks for the long list. Reasonable bustling neo-Hawkins tenor solos there are but few clarinet solos and those are very, very unimpressive and on
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 14, 2011
              Hi Bob

              Many thanks for the long list. Reasonable bustling neo-Hawkins tenor solos
              there are but few clarinet solos and those are very, very unimpressive and
              on this evidence he must rank as the worst clarinet that Clarence used --
              which is saying something.

              Nothing here to equate with the happy memories of fine and mellow clarinet.
              So I must assume he later improved.


              All Best

              Dave


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