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Re: [RedHotJazz] commercial use

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  • Jack Kirschenbaum
    Hi John: I have a question..... Are you able to get the songs to play? And if so,what am I doing wrong. Thank you, Jack ... From: John McFlanagan
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 27, 2011
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      Hi John:
      I have a question.....
      Are you able to get the songs to play?
      And if so,what am I doing wrong.
      Thank you,
      Jack
























      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "John McFlanagan" <imageissurface@...>
      To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 9:37:36 AM
      Subject: [RedHotJazz] commercial use






      Hi! I have a question...can I use the songs of the webpage
      ( http://www.redhotjazz.com/ ) (20's & 30's recordings) in a short
      film for a contest? Or can i use this songs for commercial use? If not,
      what can I do to get rights to use the songs? Thanks (great webpage btw)

      Anyone know how to contact with Scott?

      Thanks

      Victor

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Patrice Champarou
      ... From: John McFlanagan Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 3:37 PM To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com Subject: [RedHotJazz] commercial use ... Hello, Victor, and
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 28, 2011
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        -----Message d'origine-----
        From: John McFlanagan
        Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 3:37 PM
        To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [RedHotJazz] commercial use

        > Hi! I have a question...can I use the songs of the webpage
        > (http://www.redhotjazz.com/) (20's & 30's recordings) in a short
        > film for a contest? Or can i use this songs for commercial use? If not,
        > what can I do to get rights to use the songs? Thanks (great webpage btw)


        > Anyone know how to contact with Scott?

        > Thanks

        > Victor

        Hello, Victor, and welcome to the group.

        I leave the first question to the experts (Michael?), I am not even sure
        that all soundfiles in the RHJ archives are provided quite legally (some
        have suspected that this might be the key to our main problem), but I
        suppose that the commercial use of any music sample follows the same rules
        (national, international, plus various greyish meanders) whether you got it
        from the Internet or from any other source. The RHJ .ram files happening to
        be the lowest possible quality, about 300k each - not originally *meant* to
        be downloaded, see? - while an average mp3 is at least 3Mo, I wonder if it
        would not be safer to "buy" permission from an official label reissuing such
        material (at the same time supporting the few who still do) than pretend to
        ignore a possible copyright for the sole reason that the number is freely
        available somewhere on the Net. But this is a perfect ignorant's suggestion,
        I admit, mainly to launch the discussion.

        We are 804 people here today who would also like to know how to contact
        Scott. Be it only to make sure he's OK... and possibly learn what he intends
        to do about his website in the long run. Maybe I should, once and for all,
        add to the group's description that all our attempts have failed until now.

        Regarding access to the music, Jack, I've just tested the site again (using
        Realplayer) with I.E., Firefox, Opera, Chrome, and Safari, it all works
        here... except, of course, when it doesn't ;) I mean the "files not found".
        Knowing if these have been recently removed, or if they were faulty links
        from the start - the kind of prob Scott used to fix "by hand" when he was
        still with us - is another matter. As well as the various procedures to save
        them, or technical infos, requests and hints regarding everyone's system,
        location etc. when everything seems to go wrong. Questions for which I quite
        unsuccessfully created a separate group a few months ago :
        http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/rhj-tech/ , expecting to keep this one
        free from such discussions. Not that I mind, but I think it would be more
        convenient to separate them from jazz-related topics.
        I also created it in case some friends would like to start thinking, by now,
        about what should be done if the website vanished for good...
        In another life, maybe...

        Patrice
      • imageissurface
        Hi Patrice. First of all, thank you very much for answering my questions so widely. I hope experts (Michael hehe) know help with rights issue. I also hope that
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 28, 2011
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          Hi Patrice.

          First of all, thank you very much for answering my questions so widely.
          I hope experts (Michael hehe) know help with rights issue.
          I also hope that Scott back soon. As you say there are many people waiting for him.

          Greetings and thank you again.

          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Patrice Champarou" <patrice.champarou@...> wrote:
          >
          > -----Message d'origine-----
          > From: John McFlanagan
          > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 3:37 PM
          > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [RedHotJazz] commercial use
          >
          > > Hi! I have a question...can I use the songs of the webpage
          > > (http://www.redhotjazz.com/) (20's & 30's recordings) in a short
          > > film for a contest? Or can i use this songs for commercial use? If not,
          > > what can I do to get rights to use the songs? Thanks (great webpage btw)
          >
          >
          > > Anyone know how to contact with Scott?
          >
          > > Thanks
          >
          > > Victor
          >
          > Hello, Victor, and welcome to the group.
          >
          > I leave the first question to the experts (Michael?), I am not even sure
          > that all soundfiles in the RHJ archives are provided quite legally (some
          > have suspected that this might be the key to our main problem), but I
          > suppose that the commercial use of any music sample follows the same rules
          > (national, international, plus various greyish meanders) whether you got it
          > from the Internet or from any other source. The RHJ .ram files happening to
          > be the lowest possible quality, about 300k each - not originally *meant* to
          > be downloaded, see? - while an average mp3 is at least 3Mo, I wonder if it
          > would not be safer to "buy" permission from an official label reissuing such
          > material (at the same time supporting the few who still do) than pretend to
          > ignore a possible copyright for the sole reason that the number is freely
          > available somewhere on the Net. But this is a perfect ignorant's suggestion,
          > I admit, mainly to launch the discussion.
          >
          > We are 804 people here today who would also like to know how to contact
          > Scott. Be it only to make sure he's OK... and possibly learn what he intends
          > to do about his website in the long run. Maybe I should, once and for all,
          > add to the group's description that all our attempts have failed until now.
          >
          > Regarding access to the music, Jack, I've just tested the site again (using
          > Realplayer) with I.E., Firefox, Opera, Chrome, and Safari, it all works
          > here... except, of course, when it doesn't ;) I mean the "files not found".
          > Knowing if these have been recently removed, or if they were faulty links
          > from the start - the kind of prob Scott used to fix "by hand" when he was
          > still with us - is another matter. As well as the various procedures to save
          > them, or technical infos, requests and hints regarding everyone's system,
          > location etc. when everything seems to go wrong. Questions for which I quite
          > unsuccessfully created a separate group a few months ago :
          > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/rhj-tech/ , expecting to keep this one
          > free from such discussions. Not that I mind, but I think it would be more
          > convenient to separate them from jazz-related topics.
          > I also created it in case some friends would like to start thinking, by now,
          > about what should be done if the website vanished for good...
          > In another life, maybe...
          >
          > Patrice
          >
        • Bob Eagle
          Patrice s answer was wide-ranging but bearing in mind that most of the music was written by American composers, it is imperative to investigate the USA
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 28, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Patrice's answer was wide-ranging but bearing in mind that most of the music was written by American composers, it is imperative to investigate the USA copyright code. 
             
            There are two major areas to consider: (1) insofar as it is a federal issue, just about anything pre-1923 is in the public domain, and much of the later works are not.
            (2) insofar as state copyright may continue to apply, much material may still be protected.
             
            Given that there may be criminal penalties in the event of breach, as well as civil penalties, you should seek the advice of an experienced American copyright lawyer.
             
            Bob

            From: imageissurface <imageissurface@...>
            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, 28 August 2011 6:23 PM
            Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: commercial use


             
            Hi Patrice.

            First of all, thank you very much for answering my questions so widely.
            I hope experts (Michael hehe) know help with rights issue.
            I also hope that Scott back soon. As you say there are many people waiting for him.

            Greetings and thank you again.

            --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Patrice Champarou" <patrice.champarou@...> wrote:
            >
            > -----Message d'origine-----
            > From: John McFlanagan
            > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 3:37 PM
            > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [RedHotJazz] commercial use
            >
            > > Hi! I have a question...can I use the songs of the webpage
            > > (http://www.redhotjazz.com/) (20's & 30's recordings) in a short
            > > film for a contest? Or can i use this songs for commercial use? If not,
            > > what can I do to get rights to use the songs? Thanks (great webpage btw)
            >
            >
            > > Anyone know how to contact with Scott?
            >
            > > Thanks
            >
            > > Victor
            >
            > Hello, Victor, and welcome to the group.
            >
            > I leave the first question to the experts (Michael?), I am not even sure
            > that all soundfiles in the RHJ archives are provided quite legally (some
            > have suspected that this might be the key to our main problem), but I
            > suppose that the commercial use of any music sample follows the same rules
            > (national, international, plus various greyish meanders) whether you got it
            > from the Internet or from any other source. The RHJ .ram files happening to
            > be the lowest possible quality, about 300k each - not originally *meant* to
            > be downloaded, see? - while an average mp3 is at least 3Mo, I wonder if it
            > would not be safer to "buy" permission from an official label reissuing such
            > material (at the same time supporting the few who still do) than pretend to
            > ignore a possible copyright for the sole reason that the number is freely
            > available somewhere on the Net. But this is a perfect ignorant's suggestion,
            > I admit, mainly to launch the discussion.
            >
            > We are 804 people here today who would also like to know how to contact
            > Scott. Be it only to make sure he's OK... and possibly learn what he intends
            > to do about his website in the long run. Maybe I should, once and for all,
            > add to the group's description that all our attempts have failed until now.
            >
            > Regarding access to the music, Jack, I've just tested the site again (using
            > Realplayer) with I.E., Firefox, Opera, Chrome, and Safari, it all works
            > here... except, of course, when it doesn't ;) I mean the "files not found".
            > Knowing if these have been recently removed, or if they were faulty links
            > from the start - the kind of prob Scott used to fix "by hand" when he was
            > still with us - is another matter. As well as the various procedures to save
            > them, or technical infos, requests and hints regarding everyone's system,
            > location etc. when everything seems to go wrong. Questions for which I quite
            > unsuccessfully created a separate group a few months ago :
            > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/rhj-tech/ , expecting to keep this one
            > free from such discussions. Not that I mind, but I think it would be more
            > convenient to separate them from jazz-related topics.
            > I also created it in case some friends would like to start thinking, by now,
            > about what should be done if the website vanished for good...
            > In another life, maybe...
            >
            > Patrice
            >




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael
            Hi, and since Patrice mentioned me specifically, It all depends on where you re situated and if you intend to use Scott s transfers or others. Many of the
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 28, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi, and since Patrice mentioned me specifically,

              It all depends on where you're situated and if you intend to use Scott's transfers or others. Many of the recordings on Scott's web site are available on commercial reissues, mainly from European countries or Canada. The problem is that many of them are probably technically illegal in the US, even though the current copyright owners wouldn't bother to even consider their reissue. I won't go into the details, and I can't even remember if copyright now extends to 75 or 95 years. In some cases, and depending on what US state you're located in, recordings might be locked in until 2056. A rather stupid example was Mosaic's projected reissue of the complete Red Nichols Brunswicks and Vocalions which include the Five Pennies.Wishing to do things right, Mosaic contacted the current copyright holder, Universal, who held up things endlessly. The last excuse I heard was that they were looking for the original contracts. The bottom line was that Mosaic abandoned the project and sold it to Jazz Oracle, who are located in Canada. Now, the CDs have finally seen the light of day.

              In Jack's case, there should be no problem if you're located outside the US. If you are and are afraid of infringing copyright, you should contact the legal departments of the record companies concerned. If you use someone else's transfers, these are also subject to copyright (something like 25 years), but probably the reissue companies run by enthusiasts would give permission to use if they receive credit.

              Michael Rader

              --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "imageissurface" <imageissurface@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Patrice.
              >
              > First of all, thank you very much for answering my questions so widely.
              > I hope experts (Michael hehe) know help with rights issue.
              > I also hope that Scott back soon. As you say there are many people waiting for him.
              >
              > Greetings and thank you again.
              >
              > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Patrice Champarou" <patrice.champarou@> wrote:
              > >
              > > -----Message d'origine-----
              > > From: John McFlanagan
              > > Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 3:37 PM
              > > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [RedHotJazz] commercial use
              > >
              > > > Hi! I have a question...can I use the songs of the webpage
              > > > (http://www.redhotjazz.com/) (20's & 30's recordings) in a short
              > > > film for a contest? Or can i use this songs for commercial use? If not,
              > > > what can I do to get rights to use the songs? Thanks (great webpage btw)
              > >
              > >
              > > > Anyone know how to contact with Scott?
              > >
              > > > Thanks
              > >
              > > > Victor
              > >
              > > Hello, Victor, and welcome to the group.
              > >
              > > I leave the first question to the experts (Michael?), I am not even sure
              > > that all soundfiles in the RHJ archives are provided quite legally (some
              > > have suspected that this might be the key to our main problem), but I
              > > suppose that the commercial use of any music sample follows the same rules
              > > (national, international, plus various greyish meanders) whether you got it
              > > from the Internet or from any other source. The RHJ .ram files happening to
              > > be the lowest possible quality, about 300k each - not originally *meant* to
              > > be downloaded, see? - while an average mp3 is at least 3Mo, I wonder if it
              > > would not be safer to "buy" permission from an official label reissuing such
              > > material (at the same time supporting the few who still do) than pretend to
              > > ignore a possible copyright for the sole reason that the number is freely
              > > available somewhere on the Net. But this is a perfect ignorant's suggestion,
              > > I admit, mainly to launch the discussion.
              > >
              > > We are 804 people here today who would also like to know how to contact
              > > Scott. Be it only to make sure he's OK... and possibly learn what he intends
              > > to do about his website in the long run. Maybe I should, once and for all,
              > > add to the group's description that all our attempts have failed until now.
              > >
              > > Regarding access to the music, Jack, I've just tested the site again (using
              > > Realplayer) with I.E., Firefox, Opera, Chrome, and Safari, it all works
              > > here... except, of course, when it doesn't ;) I mean the "files not found".
              > > Knowing if these have been recently removed, or if they were faulty links
              > > from the start - the kind of prob Scott used to fix "by hand" when he was
              > > still with us - is another matter. As well as the various procedures to save
              > > them, or technical infos, requests and hints regarding everyone's system,
              > > location etc. when everything seems to go wrong. Questions for which I quite
              > > unsuccessfully created a separate group a few months ago :
              > > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/rhj-tech/ , expecting to keep this one
              > > free from such discussions. Not that I mind, but I think it would be more
              > > convenient to separate them from jazz-related topics.
              > > I also created it in case some friends would like to start thinking, by now,
              > > about what should be done if the website vanished for good...
              > > In another life, maybe...
              > >
              > > Patrice
              > >
              >
            • Michael
              Hi, and since Patrice mentioned me specifically, It all depends on where you re situated and if you intend to use Scott s transfers or others. Many of the
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 28, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi, and since Patrice mentioned me specifically,

                It all depends on where you're situated and if you intend to use Scott's transfers or others. Many of the recordings on Scott's web site are available on commercial reissues, mainly from European countries or Canada. The problem is that many of them are probably technically illegal in the US, even though the current copyright owners wouldn't bother to even consider their reissue. I won't go into the details, and I can't even remember if copyright now extends to 75 or 95 years. In some cases, and depending on what US state you're located in, recordings might be locked in until 2056. A rather stupid example was Mosaic's projected reissue of the complete Red Nichols Brunswicks and Vocalions which include the Five Pennies.Wishing to do things right, Mosaic contacted the current copyright holder, Universal, who held up things endlessly. The last excuse I heard was that they were looking for the original contracts. The bottom line was that Mosaic abandoned the project and sold it to Jazz Oracle, who are located in Canada. Now, the CDs have finally seen the light of day.

                In Jack's case, there should be no problem if you're located outside the US. If you are and are afraid of infringing copyright, you should contact the legal departments of the record companies concerned. If you use someone else's transfers, these are also subject to copyright (something like 25 years), but probably the reissue companies run by enthusiasts would give permission to use if they receive credit.

                Michael Rader

                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Bob Eagle <prof_hi_jinx@...> wrote:
                >
                > Patrice's answer was wide-ranging but bearing in mind that most of the music was written by American composers, it is imperative to investigate the USA copyright code. 
                >  
                > There are two major areas to consider: (1) insofar as it is a federal issue, just about anything pre-1923 is in the public domain, and much of the later works are not.
                > (2) insofar as state copyright may continue to apply, much material may still be protected.
                >  
                > Given that there may be criminal penalties in the event of breach, as well as civil penalties, you should seek the advice of an experienced American copyright lawyer.
                >  
                > Bob
                >
                >
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