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Re: [RedHotJazz] What the Papers Say...

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  • Howard Rye
    But the guess is wrong. HMV B9131 was issued about September 1940. I could no doubt recover the exact release date but it¹s not worth the trouble. So it¹s
    Message 1 of 54 , May 24, 2011
      But the guess is wrong. HMV B9131 was issued about September 1940. I could
      no doubt recover the exact release date but it¹s not worth the trouble. So
      it¹s virtually contemporary with the American issue. Loads of jazz and many
      more current American pop records were pressed in the U.K. in wartime.
      Master shells didn¹t take up a lot of space in the convoys and it was
      considered good for morale.

      As to the substantive issue, what a fuss about nothing. Of course there is a
      whiff of minstrelism, which does mean something different from minstrelsy,
      in early jazz, and in a lot of later jazz too. The ofays held all the purse
      strings and if you wanted to work where the big money was you had to give
      them what they wanted. I hold no brief for Larkin, who thought this was a
      good thing and mourned its passing, which is still deeply resented by many
      white folk as the incessant attacks on Wynton Marsalis demonstrate all too
      conclusively.

      The miracle is that so much great music got played in the process. In his
      autobiography, Cab Calloway has some very pertinent things to say about this
      in the context of the ultimate Harlem plantation, the Cotton Club.

      Patronizing necrophilia? I think not. Just an attempt to imitate (and
      contribute to) something which appeared fresh, new, and significant. The
      Edwardian British stage was littered with ³coon delineators² who tried to
      sound like Belle Davis and Pete Hampton, the clubs were littered with
      ragtimers who tried to sound like Seth Weeks and Harry Wellmon (who wrote
      shed loads of songs for British ³coon-singers²). Nat Gonella¹s take on Louis
      Armstrong was just the next stage. No different from that or what white
      Americans were doing. They copied ³all God's piccaninnies got rhythm on de
      ol' Mississippi plantation² because that¹s what the Cotton Club audience
      demanded of its peons, and they didn¹t know enough to know that that wasn¹t
      quite what the performers would have been doing if left to themselves.

      But as a description of some aspects of the trad jazz revival, ³patronizing
      necrophilia² is inspired. Are you copywriting it, Dave?



      on 24/05/2011 09:14, David Brown at johnhaleysims@... wrote:

      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hello Robert
      >
      > I guess this shows, as did your JJ quote, that mostly out there now are
      > those having the arrogance to pontificate upon jazz from a position of
      > profound ignorance. (Just check the Net) But that not only goes for jazz,
      > these dumbdown days.
      >
      > 'Nobody Knows' is one of the greatest of all jazz records and Larkin himself
      > cites it, together with 'Blue Horizon' and 'Maple Leaf Rag', as the greatest
      > Bechet. But he also complains of 'gobbling irrelevancy, mannered quotes
      > from minor classics, sticky balladry, instant Dixieland, frightful
      > travelling companions.'
      >
      > 'Maple Leaf Rag' is not one of my favourite Bechet performances, qualifying
      > in at least one of Larkin's categories, so was he also pontificating from a
      > position of ignorance, despite his undoubted enthusiasm and love for the
      > music ? Actually his criticisms of Bechet are, sadly, often correct.
      >
      > 'The whiff of yes -sirree minstrelism' is not bad for a sunflower shirted
      > pseudo hipster although hard to find relevance to pre-war UK jazz. Except
      > that UK musicians of the 30s were often, if not predominantly, taking black
      > models. And I think that even the most mundane of British Dance Orchestras
      > were essaying cover versions of black American bands, especially Ellington,
      > notably Madame Tussaud's Dance Orchestra and Spike Hughes. Was there
      > possibly a 'whiff' of patronising necrophilia -- if not yes sirree
      > minstrelism ( a word which research reveals is now cool UK although I prefer
      > minstrelsy) in those 'all God's piccaninnies got rhythm on de ol'
      > Mississippi plantation' titles that spatter the output of UK dance bands ?
      >
      > And I wonder just how many Anderson sheltering Brits would have heard
      > 'Nobody Knows', recorded June 1940, during the war. Surely it was not
      > pressed UK in wartime. My guess would be that first copies arrived with the
      > US forces.
      >
      > Dave
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
      howard@...
      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • ROBERT R. CALDER
      Well said, Luis!  NETIQUETTE, PLEASE, some would-be contributors!!! You come here to respond to messages NOT TO BURY THEM in copies of the same text Please
      Message 54 of 54 , Aug 23, 2012
        Well said, Luis! 
        NETIQUETTE, PLEASE, some would-be contributors!!!
        You come here to respond to messages
        NOT TO BURY THEM in copies of the same text
        Please delete the hundreds of lines to which
        you are replying. 

        RRC

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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