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Re: Instrumentation similar to the KOCJB

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  • serapion@btinternet.com
    Louis was of course as an aspect of his genius extremely aware of harmony, and I would conjecture on a firm basis of evidence that what he did as second cornet
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 28, 2011
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      Louis was of course as an aspect of his genius extremely aware of harmony, and I would conjecture on a firm basis of evidence that what he did as second cornet to Oliver was as innovatory as anything he did subsequently. Of course he was also matching Oliver in numerous respects which distinguish Oliver as the great musician he was. I think that particular combination of lead and two-cornet work was an innovation almost beyond emulation. Nothing shameful in not being able to do it. Who could? Other than by quoting.
      I do remember a couple of years ago Ken Mathieson's octet playing on an open-air stage in Glasgow, and as a matter of dynamics his wholly admirable and ever lyrical trumpeter (very good on Bix and King Oliver) coped well but took a lot of punishment (as became clear only later in private.
      I can see King Oliver needing support in his Chicago venue and going for as good as he could get and things following from there. Oliver had very definite musical ideas, and an unlyrical power merchant was hardly on the csrds. Louis wasn't just second cornet, he was second cornet to King Oliver. There were other related contexts featuring multiple trumpets, from marching bands to Doc Cook etc.
      Of course a unison lead might not be needed in a studio though useful in a dance-hall, or even necessary in the absence of amplification.
      I think the Oliver-Armstrong twosome marks the supreme advantage of seeking a sound solution to a practical problem rather than in fact just doing away with the problem by making sacrifices elsewhere
      The Mitchell-Dominique front line has always seemed to me a little brass-bandish. Maybe it was the studio?
    • David Brown
      Hello Serapion Wisdom there. Yes, Natty/Mitchell are much freer, less disciplined. But glorious. The idea that Oliver imported Louis to save his chops
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 1 12:59 AM
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        Hello Serapion

        Wisdom there. Yes, Natty/Mitchell are much freer, less disciplined. But
        glorious.

        The idea that Oliver imported Louis to save his chops definitely runs, it
        certainly did in later years with increasing technical problems.

        But on the records Oliver seldom takes down, there are very few actual
        solos, certainly from Louis.

        Of course, it could always be that 'live' it was otherwise but reports of
        the band stress the magical interplay between Oliver and Armstrong.

        I don't really believe that Oliver wanted to keep Louis down. But Oliver
        does comes over as rather enigmatic, both generous and tight like that, both
        jolly and dour.

        I like to think that the glory of the double cornet front line attests to
        the musical creativity and originality of Oliver.

        I forgot to mention that the very first Euro revival band, that of George
        Webb in 1943, also used two cornets.


        Dave


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John McCusker
        Hey all. Headed across the pond for the first time. Will be in Lyon, France in early April. Anyone playing our kind of music there? John ... From: David Brown
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 1 5:02 AM
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          Hey all. Headed across the pond for the first time. Will be in Lyon, France in early April. Anyone playing our kind of music there?
          John
          --- On Tue, 3/1/11, David Brown <johnhaleysims@...> wrote:


          From: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
          Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Re: Instrumentation similar to the KOCJB
          To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 2:59 AM


           



          Hello Serapion

          Wisdom there. Yes, Natty/Mitchell are much freer, less disciplined. But
          glorious.

          The idea that Oliver imported Louis to save his chops definitely runs, it
          certainly did in later years with increasing technical problems.

          But on the records Oliver seldom takes down, there are very few actual
          solos, certainly from Louis.

          Of course, it could always be that 'live' it was otherwise but reports of
          the band stress the magical interplay between Oliver and Armstrong.

          I don't really believe that Oliver wanted to keep Louis down. But Oliver
          does comes over as rather enigmatic, both generous and tight like that, both
          jolly and dour.

          I like to think that the glory of the double cornet front line attests to
          the musical creativity and originality of Oliver.

          I forgot to mention that the very first Euro revival band, that of George
          Webb in 1943, also used two cornets.

          Dave

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael Rader
          Hi John, There are probably few venues with only older music, but there is a web site listing all clubs: http://www.culture.lyon.fr/culture/sections/fr/jazz/
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 1 6:01 AM
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            Hi John,

            There are probably few venues with only older music, but there is a web site listing all clubs: http://www.culture.lyon.fr/culture/sections/fr/jazz/

            The Hot Club seems to regularly feature groups in the older styles, but obviously does not yet have a program for the time you plan to come.


            All the best,

            Michael


            ___________________________________________________________
            Schon gehört? WEB.DE hat einen genialen Phishing-Filter in die
            Toolbar eingebaut! http://produkte.web.de/go/toolbar


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Howard Rye
            To judge from the listings in the current Jazz Dixie/Swing quite a hotbed. The Hot Club de Lyon, 26 rue Lanterne, 69001 Lyon, is said to present a gig every
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 1 6:05 AM
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              To judge from the listings in the current Jazz Dixie/Swing quite a hotbed.

              The Hot Club de Lyon, 26 rue Lanterne, 69001 Lyon, is said to present a gig
              every night from Tuesday to Saturday . There¹s a list of venues with jazz
              from time to time. The only one with a website is Le fox-trot at
              <www.lefoxtrot.fr>, and the only gig listed that far head is Hahmet Gulbay
              (no idea, sounds manouche) on 9 April at Jazz et Gastronomie at Chaponnay,
              which is outer suburban.

              Get in touch again nearer the time.

              on 01/03/2011 13:02, John McCusker at ory1886@... wrote:

              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hey all. Headed across the pond for the first time. Will be in Lyon, France in
              > early April. Anyone playing our kind of music there?
              > John
              > --- On Tue, 3/1/11, David Brown <johnhaleysims@...
              > <mailto:johnhaleysims%40yahoo.co.uk> > wrote:
              >
              > From: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...
              > <mailto:johnhaleysims%40yahoo.co.uk> >
              > Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Re: Instrumentation similar to the KOCJB
              > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 2:59 AM
              >
              >  
              >
              > Hello Serapion
              >
              > Wisdom there. Yes, Natty/Mitchell are much freer, less disciplined. But
              > glorious.
              >
              > The idea that Oliver imported Louis to save his chops definitely runs, it
              > certainly did in later years with increasing technical problems.
              >
              > But on the records Oliver seldom takes down, there are very few actual
              > solos, certainly from Louis.
              >
              > Of course, it could always be that 'live' it was otherwise but reports of
              > the band stress the magical interplay between Oliver and Armstrong.
              >
              > I don't really believe that Oliver wanted to keep Louis down. But Oliver
              > does comes over as rather enigmatic, both generous and tight like that, both
              > jolly and dour.
              >
              > I like to think that the glory of the double cornet front line attests to
              > the musical creativity and originality of Oliver.
              >
              > I forgot to mention that the very first Euro revival band, that of George
              > Webb in 1943, also used two cornets.
              >
              > Dave
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
              howard@...
              Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • JamesJazz
              What timing! I too will visit Lyon (early April) for a weekend and will try to catch some sounds. Jim www.detroitmusichistory.com www.jazzstage.us ... From:
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 1 2:05 PM
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                What timing! I too will visit Lyon (early April) for a weekend and will try to catch some sounds.

                Jim
                www.detroitmusichistory.com
                www.jazzstage.us

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Howard Rye" <howard@...>
                To: "red hot jazz" <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2011 9:05:19 AM
                Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Jazz in Lyon, France

                 





                To judge from the listings in the current Jazz Dixie/Swing quite a hotbed.

                The Hot Club de Lyon, 26 rue Lanterne, 69001 Lyon, is said to present a gig
                every night from Tuesday to Saturday . There¹s a list of venues with jazz
                from time to time. The only one with a website is Le fox-trot at
                <www.lefoxtrot.fr>, and the only gig listed that far head is Hahmet Gulbay
                (no idea, sounds manouche) on 9 April at Jazz et Gastronomie at Chaponnay,
                which is outer suburban.

                Get in touch again nearer the time.

                on 01/03/2011 13:02, John McCusker at ory1886@... wrote:

                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Hey all. Headed across the pond for the first time. Will be in Lyon, France in
                > early April. Anyone playing our kind of music there?
                > John
                > --- On Tue, 3/1/11, David Brown < johnhaleysims@...
                > <mailto:johnhaleysims%40yahoo.co.uk> > wrote:
                >
                > From: David Brown < johnhaleysims@...
                > <mailto:johnhaleysims%40yahoo.co.uk> >
                > Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Re: Instrumentation similar to the KOCJB
                > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 2:59 AM
                >
                >  
                >
                > Hello Serapion
                >
                > Wisdom there. Yes, Natty/Mitchell are much freer, less disciplined. But
                > glorious.
                >
                > The idea that Oliver imported Louis to save his chops definitely runs, it
                > certainly did in later years with increasing technical problems.
                >
                > But on the records Oliver seldom takes down, there are very few actual
                > solos, certainly from Louis.
                >
                > Of course, it could always be that 'live' it was otherwise but reports of
                > the band stress the magical interplay between Oliver and Armstrong.
                >
                > I don't really believe that Oliver wanted to keep Louis down. But Oliver
                > does comes over as rather enigmatic, both generous and tight like that, both
                > jolly and dour.
                >
                > I like to think that the glory of the double cornet front line attests to
                > the musical creativity and originality of Oliver.
                >
                > I forgot to mention that the very first Euro revival band, that of George
                > Webb in 1943, also used two cornets.
                >
                > Dave
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                howard@...
                Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • louis
                Thanks Michael, Howard and Louis. Looks like I m headed for the Hot Club of Lyon. ... From: louis Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Jazz in
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 2 6:03 AM
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                  Thanks Michael, Howard and Louis. Looks like I'm headed for the Hot Club of Lyon.

                  --- On Wed, 3/2/11, louis <louis.iosub@...> wrote:


                  From: louis <louis.iosub@...>
                  Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Jazz in Lyon, France
                  To: ory1886@...
                  Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011, 2:07 AM


                  
                  Hello John,

                  Michael and Howard are right : the best place is the Hot Club de Lyon. You will find their schedule for january and february there : http://www.hotclubdelyon.org/
                  Obviously their site should be updated soon, at least for the march schedule...

                  All the best for your european stay, from Sid, Christer and myself,
                  Louis

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: John McCusker
                  To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 2:02 PM
                  Subject: [RedHotJazz] Jazz in Lyon, France




                  Hey all. Headed across the pond for the first time. Will be in Lyon, France in early April. Anyone playing our kind of music there?
                  John
                  --- On Tue, 3/1/11, David Brown <johnhaleysims@...> wrote:

                  From: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
                  Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Re: Instrumentation similar to the KOCJB
                  To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011, 2:59 AM



                  Hello Serapion

                  Wisdom there. Yes, Natty/Mitchell are much freer, less disciplined. But
                  glorious.

                  The idea that Oliver imported Louis to save his chops definitely runs, it
                  certainly did in later years with increasing technical problems.

                  But on the records Oliver seldom takes down, there are very few actual
                  solos, certainly from Louis.

                  Of course, it could always be that 'live' it was otherwise but reports of
                  the band stress the magical interplay between Oliver and Armstrong.

                  I don't really believe that Oliver wanted to keep Louis down. But Oliver
                  does comes over as rather enigmatic, both generous and tight like that, both
                  jolly and dour.

                  I like to think that the glory of the double cornet front line attests to
                  the musical creativity and originality of Oliver.

                  I forgot to mention that the very first Euro revival band, that of George
                  Webb in 1943, also used two cornets.

                  Dave

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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