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Photograph in Keepnews & Grauer

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  • Robert
    Looking last night for the Allen Brass Band photograph in Keepnews & Grauer Pictorial History of Jazz, I turned to page 218 in my edition to see a photograph
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 3, 2011
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      Looking last night for the Allen Brass Band photograph in Keepnews & Grauer Pictorial History of Jazz, I turned to page 218 in my edition to see a photograph of Bunk & band at the Stuyvesant Casino, NYC September 28, 1945. Although listed as he, the bespectacled banjoist in the picture is clearly not Lawrence Marrero. If anyone, it looks more like St. Cyr. Any thoughts anyone?

      Robert Greenwood
    • David Brown
      Right not Marrero. Spring Books, printed in Czechoslovakia on paper recycled, diplomatically, from Gestapo files after a good drubbing by T34s, using the most
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 4, 2011
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        Right not Marrero.

        Spring Books, printed in Czechoslovakia on paper recycled, diplomatically,
        from Gestapo files after a good drubbing by T34s, using the most modern
        printing technique available in 12th century Tibet.

        But they were cheap. I bought mine for 10 bob in the local High Street
        W.H.Smith.

        But honestly the quality of reproduction is very poor, marring the value of
        some very rare photos, some of which I have never seen elsewhere, including
        the Henry Allen Brass Band, the version of which I found online, I think,
        from this very book. Maybe the first edition was better ?

        So they'd all sure be sitting in the back row of that church Pops described
        so very hard to say who on banjo except that he wears specs. Did St Cyr ?
        Also Chilton is he did not leave N.O. from 30s to 1955. I think it might be
        a chunkier and darker than usual Danny Barker who Chilton has as 'gigging'
        with Bunk in 1947.

        Reading round, I find that Marrero was not wanted by the penny pinching
        management for a later season at the 'S.C.' so George left him at home which
        Marrero forever after resented. Hillman excuses George for this as having no
        choice. What we think ?

        Dave


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      • Robert
        Does anyone know anything about the photographs in Keepnews & Grauer of Oscar Celestin and Kid Shots Madison? Were they, perhaps, taken in 1946 when the (now
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 4, 2011
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          Does anyone know anything about the photographs in Keepnews & Grauer of Oscar Celestin and Kid Shots Madison? Were they, perhaps, taken in 1946 when the (now lost) film of a brass band (including Henry Allen senior) was made as part of the research for the feature film New Orleans?
          That piece of film is surely the cinematic equivalent of the Bolden cylinder...

          Robert Greenwood
        • John McCusker
          Trying to put my hands on a quality version of the photo of Oliver s Dixie Syncopators. Not the one with George Fihle on tram...need the one with Ory. Any
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 4, 2011
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            Trying to put my hands on a quality version of the photo of Oliver's Dixie Syncopators. Not the one with George Fihle on tram...need the one with Ory. Any ideas or anyone out there have a first or second generation copy...or know someone who does?
            Many thanks.
            John McCusker
            New Orleans

            --- On Fri, 2/4/11, Robert <robertgreenwood_54uk@...> wrote:

            From: Robert <robertgreenwood_54uk@...>
            Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Photograph in Keepnews & Grauer
            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 6:57 AM







             









            Does anyone know anything about the photographs in Keepnews & Grauer of Oscar Celestin and Kid Shots Madison? Were they, perhaps, taken in 1946 when the (now lost) film of a brass band (including Henry Allen senior) was made as part of the research for the feature film New Orleans?

            That piece of film is surely the cinematic equivalent of the Bolden cylinder...



            Robert Greenwood

























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • BSGoggin
            Hello John, There is no photo of the Dixie Syncopators with Ory in it (unless one has surfaced in the last few years). All three (I m almost certain it s
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 5, 2011
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              Hello John,

              There is no photo of the Dixie Syncopators with Ory in it (unless one has surfaced in the last few years). All three (I'm almost certain it's three) have George Filhe in them. It's Oliver, Schoffner, Filhe, Howard, Nicholas, Bigard, Russell, Scott, Cobb & Barbarin in them and all were done the same day I think...

              The best quality and clearest one I've seen is in Jim Godbolt's Jazz Ephemera and Collectibles book from about 1991. Do you have that book?

              All the best,
              Brian.



              --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, John McCusker <ory1886@...> wrote:
              >
              > Trying to put my hands on a quality version of the photo of Oliver's Dixie Syncopators. Not the one with George Fihle on tram...need the one with Ory. Any ideas or anyone out there have a first or second generation copy...or know someone who does?
              > Many thanks.
              > John McCusker
              > New Orleans
              >
              > --- On Fri, 2/4/11, Robert <robertgreenwood_54uk@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: Robert <robertgreenwood_54uk@...>
              > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Photograph in Keepnews & Grauer
              > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 6:57 AM
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              > Does anyone know anything about the photographs in Keepnews & Grauer of Oscar Celestin and Kid Shots Madison? Were they, perhaps, taken in 1946 when the (now lost) film of a brass band (including Henry Allen senior) was made as part of the research for the feature film New Orleans?
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            • Mordechai Litzman
              Don t know if this is helpful, but go to Google Images and type in King Oliver s Dixie Syncopators. A number of images come up, but only a couple of different
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 5, 2011
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                Don't know if this is helpful, but go to Google Images and type in King Oliver's
                Dixie Syncopators. A number of images come up, but only a couple of different
                pictures. Some are clearer than others.





                ________________________________
                From: BSGoggin <goggin_jrm@...>
                To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 12:12:22 PM
                Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Oliver's Dixie Syncopators Photo



                Hello John,

                There is no photo of the Dixie Syncopators with Ory in it (unless one has
                surfaced in the last few years). All three (I'm almost certain it's three) have
                George Filhe in them. It's Oliver, Schoffner, Filhe, Howard, Nicholas, Bigard,
                Russell, Scott, Cobb & Barbarin in them and all were done the same day I
                think...

                The best quality and clearest one I've seen is in Jim Godbolt's Jazz Ephemera
                and Collectibles book from about 1991. Do you have that book?

                All the best,
                Brian.

                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, John McCusker <ory1886@...> wrote:
                >
                > Trying to put my hands on a quality version of the photo of Oliver's Dixie
                >Syncopators. Not the one with George Fihle on tram...need the one with Ory. Any
                >ideas or anyone out there have a first or second generation copy...or know
                >someone who does?
                > Many thanks.
                > John McCusker
                > New Orleans
                >
                > --- On Fri, 2/4/11, Robert <robertgreenwood_54uk@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: Robert <robertgreenwood_54uk@...>
                > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Photograph in Keepnews & Grauer
                > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 6:57 AM
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                > Does anyone know anything about the photographs in Keepnews & Grauer of
                >Oscar Celestin and Kid Shots Madison? Were they, perhaps, taken in 1946 when the
                >(now lost) film of a brass band (including Henry Allen senior) was made as part
                >of the research for the feature film New Orleans?
                >
                > That piece of film is surely the cinematic equivalent of the Bolden
                cylinder...
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                > Robert Greenwood
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              • Michael Rader
                John, the photo I think you mean is reproduced twice in Laurie Wright s King Oliver (p. 70 and p. 81). It is credited to Frank Driggs, but I believe that he
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 6, 2011
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                  John, the photo I think you mean is reproduced twice in Laurie Wright's
                  "King Oliver" (p. 70 and p. 81). It is credited to Frank Driggs, but I
                  believe that he has since sold his photo collection.
                  Best,

                  Michael Rader

                  John McCusker schrieb:

                  >
                  >
                  > Trying to put my hands on a quality version of the photo of Oliver's
                  > Dixie Syncopators. Not the one with George Fihle on tram...need the
                  > one with Ory. Any ideas or anyone out there have a first or second
                  > generation copy...or know someone who does?
                  > Many thanks.
                  > John McCusker
                  > New Orleans
                  >
                • Peter L Reid
                  ... John, I think it is the same photo that is on the front of an LP record I have. The record is entitled King Oliver s Dixie Syncopators and is an Ace of
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 6, 2011
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                    On 6/02/2011 9:41 PM, Michael Rader wrote:
                    >
                    > John, the photo I think you mean is reproduced twice in Laurie Wright's
                    > "King Oliver" (p. 70 and p. 81). It is credited to Frank Driggs, but I
                    > believe that he has since sold his photo collection.
                    > Best,
                    >
                    > Michael Rader
                    >
                    > .
                    >
                    >
                    John,
                    I think it is the same photo that is on the front of an LP record I have.
                    The record is entitled "King Oliver's Dixie Syncopators" and is an "Ace
                    of Hearts"
                    release on English Decca (Mono AH34). Brian Rust wrote the cover notes
                    and it
                    was released in 1962.
                    The photo is of the band on a stage, behind a curtained balustrade. The
                    trombonist
                    who appears to be Kid Ory is on the very left of the photo, seated next
                    to King Oliver.
                    In front of the band is a hanging cloth sign with King Oliver's Dixie
                    Syncopators on it.
                    Looking at the musicians it would appear to be the April 1926 band.
                    Unfortunately the cover does not scan at all well owing to the age and
                    usage the
                    record has had over the last 50 years. Perhaps a list member has a more
                    pristine
                    cover they can scan from and forward to you.
                    If you can let me have your e-mail address I will forward the best copy
                    I could make
                    direct to you. Probably not much help to you except to maybe confirm the
                    existence
                    of the photo you seek.

                    Peter


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John McCusker
                    Thanks Michael. That s a help. That means a picture agency now has it which is probably a good thing. Thanks. ... From: Michael Rader
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 6, 2011
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                      Thanks Michael. That's a help. That means a picture agency now has it which is probably a good thing. Thanks.

                      --- On Sun, 2/6/11, Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:


                      From: Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...>
                      Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Oliver's Dixie Syncopators Photo
                      To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 4:41 AM


                       



                      John, the photo I think you mean is reproduced twice in Laurie Wright's
                      "King Oliver" (p. 70 and p. 81). It is credited to Frank Driggs, but I
                      believe that he has since sold his photo collection.
                      Best,

                      Michael Rader

                      John McCusker schrieb:

                      >
                      >
                      > Trying to put my hands on a quality version of the photo of Oliver's
                      > Dixie Syncopators. Not the one with George Fihle on tram...need the
                      > one with Ory. Any ideas or anyone out there have a first or second
                      > generation copy...or know someone who does?
                      > Many thanks.
                      > John McCusker
                      > New Orleans
                      >











                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • BSGoggin
                      Apologies re below - I was wrong - forgot about that one (there might be 2 actually) - it was used in an advert...
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 6, 2011
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                        Apologies re below - I was wrong - forgot about that one (there might be 2 actually) - it was used in an advert...

                        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "BSGoggin" <goggin_jrm@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Hello John,
                        >
                        > There is no photo of the Dixie Syncopators with Ory in it (unless one has surfaced in the last few years). All three (I'm almost certain it's three) have George Filhe in them. It's Oliver, Schoffner, Filhe, Howard, Nicholas, Bigard, Russell, Scott, Cobb & Barbarin in them and all were done the same day I think...
                        >
                        > The best quality and clearest one I've seen is in Jim Godbolt's Jazz Ephemera and Collectibles book from about 1991. Do you have that book?
                        >
                        > All the best,
                        > Brian.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, John McCusker <ory1886@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Trying to put my hands on a quality version of the photo of Oliver's Dixie Syncopators. Not the one with George Fihle on tram...need the one with Ory. Any ideas or anyone out there have a first or second generation copy...or know someone who does?
                        > > Many thanks.
                        > > John McCusker
                        > > New Orleans
                        > >
                        > > --- On Fri, 2/4/11, Robert <robertgreenwood_54uk@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > From: Robert <robertgreenwood_54uk@>
                        > > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Photograph in Keepnews & Grauer
                        > > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Date: Friday, February 4, 2011, 6:57 AM
                        > >
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                        > > Does anyone know anything about the photographs in Keepnews & Grauer of Oscar Celestin and Kid Shots Madison? Were they, perhaps, taken in 1946 when the (now lost) film of a brass band (including Henry Allen senior) was made as part of the research for the feature film New Orleans?
                        > >
                        > > That piece of film is surely the cinematic equivalent of the Bolden cylinder...
                        > >
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                        > >
                        > > Robert Greenwood
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                      • Michael Rader
                        It is indeed the same photo and was used for both Volumes of the Ace of Hearts. One of the reproductions in the King Oliver book is actually of a handbill.
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 7, 2011
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                          It is indeed the same photo and was used for both Volumes of the Ace of Hearts.
                          One of the reproductions in the "King" Oliver book is actually of a handbill. The photo is rather darker, giving less detail than the handbill.

                          Best

                          Michael



                          John,
                          I think it is the same photo that is on the front of an LP record I have.
                          The record is entitled "King Oliver's Dixie Syncopators" and is an "Ace
                          of Hearts"
                          release on English Decca (Mono AH34).
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