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Re: [RedHotJazz] Anyone know why the main site is down?

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  • Nigel Burlinson
    I, too, live in France and I just opened the site and listened to a recording without any problems at all! Nigel Burlinson. ... From: patrice.champarou@free.fr
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 3, 2010
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      I, too, live in France and I just opened the site and listened to a
      recording without any problems at all!

      Nigel Burlinson.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: patrice.champarou@...
      To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 2:51 PM
      Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Anyone know why the main site is down?



      -----Message d'origine-----
      From: bernice joffe
      Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 6:38 AM
      To: redhotjazz@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Anyone know why the main site is down?

      > has the owner decided to disband?

      The short answer is that we do not know, and wish we did.

      Of course I won't delete the group, and it it obvious that if, for whatever
      reason, Scott has decided to stay away, his decision has to be respected.
      What is, I think, quite unfair, is to refuse saying so once and for all - at
      least to one of the people he used to be in touch with. Not excluding the
      possibility that something serious happened to him, which keeps me just as
      worried.

      There is still a link to his bouncing email address on the welcome page of
      the RHJ website, which is probably quite disappointing for visitors, but not
      directly our problem.
      But there is also one to the group's webpage, suggesting that this Yahoo
      group is the official, related mailing-list.
      This was quite nice when Scott was still with us, but it has now created a
      very ambiguous and awkward situation.

      I get subscription requests *every week*, all year long, by first-time
      visitors who seldom take time to read what this group is about. Most never
      post a word, many unsubscribe after a couple of days or weeks, probably
      expecting to receive some kind of newsletter or whatever... not mentioning
      the calls for help and questions regarding the website itself, which I keep
      receiving as the group-owner, and keep patiently replying just to explain
      there is nothing I or anyone I know can do about it.

      I cannot get rid of this hassle by allowing just "anyone" to the group
      without first checking they are (most likely) real people, we would be
      instantly flooded with spam - no joke, the server keeps automatically
      rejecting lots of ads sent by spamming robots with the reason "not
      subscribed".
      And I cannot decide to close subscriptions either, it would be the opposite
      of the policy which Michael and I tried to define in the first place:
      keeping an open place for discussion between people who are sometimes
      discovering pre-war jazz, and confirmed specialists - plus a lot of
      "in-betweens" like myself ;-)

      I took precautions from the start to keep the group from being "abandoned",
      even if I happened to vanish myself. I am sorry to understand that Scott did
      not bother lending anyone the "keys" to his website, which of course cannot
      be argued... but be the assumption correct or not, I think the least would
      be to let us/me/someone know.

      Patrice

      P.S. the group's server seems to have temporary problems, not warning me of
      pending messages or subscription requests for a couple of days. This does
      not only concern new members, but just anyone, since Yahoo sometimes fancies
      marking messages as spam without any obvious reason, and we have to go and
      "unlock" them.





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Richard Lund
      Sorry, too late :-) I am using httracks actually after trying a few others that just didn t work at all... My hope is that I can download all the RAM files,
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 3, 2010
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        Sorry, too late :-)
        I am using httracks actually after trying a few others that just didn't
        work at all...
        My hope is that I can download all the RAM files, parse them into one
        large text file and have a Real Audio downloader pull them all when it's
        done.
        But I am encountering quite a few 404 (page/object not found) errors.
        The program ran overnight and just finished its first run, so I told it
        to go again.
        The program IS fairly slow given my fast connection, so I don't think
        I'm overloading the server :-)


        On 12/3/2010 4:08 AM, patrice.champarou@... wrote:
        >
        > Sorry for the tecchy discussion here, but Richard, just to save you and
        > anyone else a lot of disappointment :
        > you *can* download the whole site, but you'll only get the pages, not the
        > soundfiles which are stored in
        > a protected folder, and "called" by separate streaming files (all in the
        > "songs" folder).
        > These are not the songs themselves, but .ram files, so a backup of the
        > site
        > on your computer won't work.
        > Unless, of course, you have enough time on your side to record
        > thousands of
        > samples, convert, rename and reorganize them into your own folders, and
        > rewrite all links in each of the html pages. I am too busy/lazy to
        > make an
        > estimation of the time it would take...
        >
        > I already thought of these problems when Scott was considering moving his
        > site to France, I think it should either be kept as is (and no-one but
        > Scott
        > has access to the whole content, as far as I know) or completely
        > rewritten,
        > using a CMS which would indeed save a lot time, and allow more
        > functions -
        > like new entries or minor corrections, for a limited number of
        > contributors
        > with the relevant permissions.
        >
        > Not that the purely informative part is not instructive enough in
        > itself, I
        > saved it years ago.
        > But please don't all rush on HTTracks together, or we'll do know why the
        > server is getting slow! ;-))
        >
        > Patrice
        >
        > -----Message d'origine-----
        > From: Richard Lund
        > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 2:27 AM
        > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Anyone know why the main site is down?
        >
        > First of all:
        > Please do NOT hit the Delete button :-)
        >
        > Second, I was able to get to the site today (just now), so at least it
        > is not completely down...
        >
        > But it is slow and seems a little unreliable right now...
        > This thread alarmed be to the degree that I am now attempting to
        > download the entire site just to have an archive should the worst
        > happen. So far I am not having too much luck (timeouts and other
        > errors), but I'll keep trying. This great collection must be preserved!
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Richard Lund
        Well, after 3 days of experimenting I had to finally give up on downloading/archiving the site... Apart from the fact that I received at least 2 dozen file
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 4, 2010
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          Well, after 3 days of experimenting I had to finally give up on
          downloading/archiving the site...
          Apart from the fact that I received at least 2 dozen "file not found"
          errors, I could not find a program that would allow me to batch download
          the over 9,000 (!!!) song files...
          I was able to get the URLs from the header files and combine them into
          one text file, but there is no reliable program out there that will a)
          load a list of URLs, b) download the old PNM protocol and c) work
          without crashing randomly...
          In fact, Streambox was the only program that came close, but it crashes
          to frequently that the work I'd have to put into keeping it going would
          not make it worth the little time I have available.

          I can only hope that Scott finally will answer again and let us know of
          his plans.

          If he should contact someone, I would like to offer an alternate
          technology for serving the audio files - they could be stored in better
          quality as MP3 files and played through a Flash interface (which is a
          lot more common to find pre-installed than Real Player). Hopefully he
          kept the original quality sound bites archived somewhere...

          Anyway, that's neither here nor there until he surfaces again.

          In any case, except for some "file not found" errors, the few audio
          files that the program tried to download were downloaded successfully,
          so it would seem that at least most of the site is still intact.
        • patrice.champarou@free.fr
          I personally wish this discussion to be over, but since (for once) I started replying to a query regarding the RHJ site, here we go : The most important thing
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 4, 2010
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            I personally wish this discussion to be over, but since (for once) I started
            replying to a query regarding the RHJ site, here we go :

            The most important thing (which I already mentioned) is, I think, that we
            can expect the site to keep working at least until December 2011.
            The have been so many temporary failures over the years that I suppose the
            safest thing, now that we've lost concact with Scott, is to wait until
            things are settled.

            Another comment is that I think one of the reasons why Scott chose the
            realaudio format was that he simply did not want his files to be downloaded.

            Plenty of things have changed since then, not only the actual downloading
            facility offered by the latest version of the Realplayer, but also the
            amazing number of free downloads now offered all over the web, with the more
            or less valid excuse of public domain status.

            Keeping a streaming protocol, rather than dowloadable mp3's with better
            sound quality is, among other things, a way to expressly support the efforts
            of the few small records companies which still remaster, publish, and of
            course, expect to sell pre-war music. I suppose I do not have to elaborate
            any further about this.
            Another, very important thing is that Scott's labor of love cannot be
            compared to large streaming websites supported by ads and/or some related
            commercial activities, which can afford to pay for broadcasting music. We
            did fear, a couple of years ago, that new directives regarding online
            radios in the US might kill the Archives for good, I do not know much about
            these questions but if I consider the crazy ambiguities of French law, I
            assume the risk is still pending.

            This is why I've always tried to be as discreet as possible about
            downloading, and I encourage everyone here to do the same. Of course I am
            not candid, the possibility of capturing online music has always existed, be
            it only by recording what comes out of your soundcard.

            I am not exerting any censorship here, but please remember that discussing
            some questions privately with other members you know or trust is still a
            possibility, and sometimes a more efficient one than making them public. Up
            to your judgement, and I must add that this group is the only one I've known
            or run where there are nearly no "moderating" problems, because of
            everyone's self-discipline.

            Best,

            Patrice


            -----Message d'origine-----
            From: Richard Lund
            Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 9:04 PM
            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Anyone know why the main site is down?

            Well, after 3 days of experimenting I had to finally give up on
            downloading/archiving the site...
            Apart from the fact that I received at least 2 dozen "file not found"
            errors, I could not find a program that would allow me to batch download
            the over 9,000 (!!!) song files...
            I was able to get the URLs from the header files and combine them into
            one text file, but there is no reliable program out there that will a)
            load a list of URLs, b) download the old PNM protocol and c) work
            without crashing randomly...
            In fact, Streambox was the only program that came close, but it crashes
            to frequently that the work I'd have to put into keeping it going would
            not make it worth the little time I have available.

            I can only hope that Scott finally will answer again and let us know of
            his plans.

            If he should contact someone, I would like to offer an alternate
            technology for serving the audio files - they could be stored in better
            quality as MP3 files and played through a Flash interface (which is a
            lot more common to find pre-installed than Real Player). Hopefully he
            kept the original quality sound bites archived somewhere...

            Anyway, that's neither here nor there until he surfaces again.

            In any case, except for some "file not found" errors, the few audio
            files that the program tried to download were downloaded successfully,
            so it would seem that at least most of the site is still intact.
          • patrice.champarou@free.fr
            ... From: myself ... I meant to add next time the site is down .
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 4, 2010
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              -----Message d'origine-----
              From: myself

              >TheRE have been so many temporary failures over the years that I suppose
              >the
              > safest thing (...) is to wait until things are settled.

              I meant to add "next time the site is down".
            • Richard Lund
              Sorry, I guess I went a little overboard with this, partially because of my fear that the site might disappear some day... If this wasn t a realistic
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 4, 2010
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                Sorry, I guess I went a little overboard with this, partially because
                of my fear that the site might disappear some day...
                If this wasn't a realistic possibility, I would never have said anything
                publicly, and now after reading your last message I will stop talking
                about it - done.
                One clarification: MP3s when played through a Flash interface are not
                particularly easy to download either unless you know a few tricks.
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