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Re: [RedHotJazz] String Bass Players

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  • Mordechai Litzman
    The 1927 New Orleans recordings of Sam Morgan s Band feature excellent string bass playing by Sidney Brown. ________________________________ From: David Brown
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 1, 2010
      The 1927 New Orleans recordings of Sam Morgan's Band feature excellent string bass playing by Sidney Brown.




      ________________________________
      From: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
      To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, July 1, 2010 11:19:25 AM
      Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] String Bass Players


      I'm interested in the claim that Bill Johnson 'invented N.O. bass playing.' I've searched my sources in vain for confirmation. Where is this from JT ?

      According to Chilton, he took up string bass in 1900 and left N.O. for California in 1909. Unfortunately, although photos prove he played bass with Oliver, we only have him on banjo. However, he is heard in full glory on the Dodds Victors.

      In his autobiography, Pops Foster, who was playing professionally in N.O. bands from 1906, only mentions Johnson in passing but recalls Henry Kimball ( born 1878) with John Robichaux's band as 'a wonderful bass player.' He also recalls Bolden's bassist Jim Johnson, 'an older guy than me'.

      I speculate that N.O. bass style was communally 'invented' and probably developed naturally from the switch from primarily arco playing to primarily pizzicato. I have never found a definitive account of this transition. Anybody got anything ?

      Dave

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Rader
      While I can t really add anything to the legends surrounding the genesis of New Orleans bass playing, I d like to point out that Jimmy Johnson actually
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 1, 2010
        While I can't really add anything to the legends surrounding the genesis of New Orleans bass playing, I'd like to point out that Jimmy Johnson actually recorded with Don Albert in 1935 or thereabouts. Apparently the first recorded samples of New Orleans bass playing are Ed Garland with Kid Ory in 1922. The recent Off the Record New Orleans double CD has all six titles and on some, the string bass can be heard, albeit faintly.

        Michael Rader



        ---------------------
        Von: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
        Gesendet: 01.07.2010 17:19:25
        An: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        Betreff: RE: [RedHotJazz] String Bass Players


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        I'm interested in the claim that Bill Johnson 'invented N.O. bass playing.' I've searched my sources in vain for confirmation. Where is this from JT ?

        According to Chilton, he took up string bass in 1900 and left N.O. for California in 1909. Unfortunately, although photos prove he played bass with Oliver, we only have him on banjo. However, he is heard in full glory on the Dodds Victors.

        In his autobiography, Pops Foster, who was playing professionally in N.O. bands from 1906, only mentions Johnson in passing but recalls Henry Kimball ( born 1878) with John Robichaux's band as 'a wonderful bass player.' He also recalls Bolden's bassist Jim Johnson, 'an older guy than me'.

        I speculate that N.O. bass style was communally 'invented' and probably developed naturally from the switch from primarily arco playing to primarily pizzicato. I have never found a definitive account of this transition. Anybody got anything ?

        Dave

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        ___________________________________________________________
        WEB.DE DSL ab 19,99 Euro/Monat. Bis zu 150,- Euro Startguthaben und
        50,- Euro Geldprämie inklusive! https://freundschaftswerbung.web.de


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • don higgins
        all this fue frawh.....the best playing i have EVER heard is steve browns work on goldkettes my pretty girl # 2 . who among you has better???? he was a very
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 2, 2010
          all this fue frawh.....the best playing i have EVER heard is steve browns work on goldkettes "my pretty girl # 2". who among you has better???? he was a very early player and if he played like that @ 15 yrs old he surley paved the way.

          --- On Fri, 7/2/10, Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:


          From: Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...>
          Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] String Bass Players
          To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 2:40 AM


           



          While I can't really add anything to the legends surrounding the genesis of New Orleans bass playing, I'd like to point out that Jimmy Johnson actually recorded with Don Albert in 1935 or thereabouts. Apparently the first recorded samples of New Orleans bass playing are Ed Garland with Kid Ory in 1922. The recent Off the Record New Orleans double CD has all six titles and on some, the string bass can be heard, albeit faintly.

          Michael Rader

          ---------------------
          Von: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
          Gesendet: 01.07.2010 17:19:25
          An: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
          Betreff: RE: [RedHotJazz] String Bass Players

          <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->

          <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->

          I'm interested in the claim that Bill Johnson 'invented N.O. bass playing.' I've searched my sources in vain for confirmation. Where is this from JT ?

          According to Chilton, he took up string bass in 1900 and left N.O. for California in 1909. Unfortunately, although photos prove he played bass with Oliver, we only have him on banjo. However, he is heard in full glory on the Dodds Victors.

          In his autobiography, Pops Foster, who was playing professionally in N.O. bands from 1906, only mentions Johnson in passing but recalls Henry Kimball ( born 1878) with John Robichaux's band as 'a wonderful bass player.' He also recalls Bolden's bassist Jim Johnson, 'an older guy than me'.

          I speculate that N.O. bass style was communally 'invented' and probably developed naturally from the switch from primarily arco playing to primarily pizzicato. I have never found a definitive account of this transition. Anybody got anything ?

          Dave

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->

          <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
          __________________________________________________________
          WEB.DE DSL ab 19,99 Euro/Monat. Bis zu 150,- Euro Startguthaben und
          50,- Euro Geldprämie inklusive! https://freundschaftswerbung.web.de

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • yves francois
          Michael Jimmy Johnson recorded 8 titles w Don Albert in late 1936, it must be said that one of the trombonists doubles on tuba, which is why you hear a tuba at
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 2, 2010
            Michael
            Jimmy Johnson recorded 8 titles w Don Albert in late 1936, it must be said that one of the trombonists doubles on tuba, which is why you hear a tuba at the end of "The Sheik Of Araby" - will give more info this weekend
            Yves

            --- On Fri, 7/2/10, Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:


            From: Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...>
            Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] String Bass Players
            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 1:40 AM


             



            While I can't really add anything to the legends surrounding the genesis of New Orleans bass playing, I'd like to point out that Jimmy Johnson actually recorded with Don Albert in 1935 or thereabouts. Apparently the first recorded samples of New Orleans bass playing are Ed Garland with Kid Ory in 1922. The recent Off the Record New Orleans double CD has all six titles and on some, the string bass can be heard, albeit faintly.

            Michael Rader

            ---------------------
            Von: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
            Gesendet: 01.07.2010 17:19:25
            An: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Betreff: RE: [RedHotJazz] String Bass Players

            <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->

            <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->

            I'm interested in the claim that Bill Johnson 'invented N.O. bass playing.' I've searched my sources in vain for confirmation. Where is this from JT ?

            According to Chilton, he took up string bass in 1900 and left N.O. for California in 1909. Unfortunately, although photos prove he played bass with Oliver, we only have him on banjo. However, he is heard in full glory on the Dodds Victors.

            In his autobiography, Pops Foster, who was playing professionally in N.O. bands from 1906, only mentions Johnson in passing but recalls Henry Kimball ( born 1878) with John Robichaux's band as 'a wonderful bass player.' He also recalls Bolden's bassist Jim Johnson, 'an older guy than me'.

            I speculate that N.O. bass style was communally 'invented' and probably developed naturally from the switch from primarily arco playing to primarily pizzicato. I have never found a definitive account of this transition. Anybody got anything ?

            Dave

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->

            <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
            __________________________________________________________
            WEB.DE DSL ab 19,99 Euro/Monat. Bis zu 150,- Euro Startguthaben und
            50,- Euro Geldprämie inklusive! https://freundschaftswerbung.web.de

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ory1886
            You may want to give Ed Garland a listen. He recorded some really nice stuff with Ory in the forties, including a pretty bowed solo on Mutt s Blues.
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 12 8:08 PM
              You may want to give Ed Garland a listen. He recorded some really nice stuff with Ory in the forties, including a pretty bowed solo on Mutt's Blues.

              --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, reid1947@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi All,
              > Not long ago someone (my apologies) remarked on string bass players of
              > distinction and named John Lindsay from the Peppers and Steve Brown.
              > I have been listening to my 3mp player all this week, and I would like to
              > add, in my opinion, 3 more notables.
              > The bass player with Cab Calloway (I have been working away, so I haven't
              > had a chance to check out his name.) on "Aw You Dog"; the track without the
              > dog bark at the end.
              > "Pops" Foster with The Luis Russell Orchestra, especially on "Doctor Blues"
              > and "Give Me Your Telephone Number".(What a superb band. They are up there
              > with the Peppers.)
              > Walter Page on "Honeysuckle Rose" from Benny's 1938 Carnegie Hall concert.
              > I'm working on a few more.
              >
              > Peter L.
              >
            • fearfeasa
              Cab Calloway s bass player : Al Morgan from NO, brother of Sam, Ike and Andrew. JT ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 13 4:14 AM
                Cab Calloway's bass player : Al Morgan from NO, brother of Sam, Ike
                and Andrew.

                JT

                Ar 13/08/10 04:08 :21, scríobh ory1886:
                >
                > You may want to give Ed Garland a listen. He recorded some really nice
                > stuff with Ory in the forties, including a pretty bowed solo on Mutt's
                > Blues.
                >
                > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>, reid1947@... wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi All,
                > > Not long ago someone (my apologies) remarked on string bass players of
                > > distinction and named John Lindsay from the Peppers and Steve Brown.
                > > I have been listening to my 3mp player all this week, and I would
                > like to
                > > add, in my opinion, 3 more notables.
                > > The bass player with Cab Calloway (I have been working away, so I
                > haven't
                > > had a chance to check out his name.) on "Aw You Dog"; the track
                > without the
                > > dog bark at the end.
                > > "Pops" Foster with The Luis Russell Orchestra, especially on "Doctor
                > Blues"
                > > and "Give Me Your Telephone Number".(What a superb band. They are up
                > there
                > > with the Peppers.)
                > > Walter Page on "Honeysuckle Rose" from Benny's 1938 Carnegie Hall
                > concert.
                > > I'm working on a few more.
                > >
                > > Peter L.
                > >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • hans.eekhoff
                Al Morgan was indeed superb - just look and listen to the last tune of this film! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEoTwTYnc6g Hans Eekhoff
                Message 7 of 18 , Aug 13 10:04 AM
                  Al Morgan was indeed superb - just look and listen to the last tune of this film!

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEoTwTYnc6g

                  Hans Eekhoff


                  --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, fearfeasa <fearfeasa@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Cab Calloway's bass player : Al Morgan from NO, brother of Sam, Ike
                  > and Andrew.
                  >
                  > JT
                  >
                  > Ar 13/08/10 04:08 :21, scríobh ory1886:
                  > >
                  > > You may want to give Ed Garland a listen. He recorded some really nice
                  > > stuff with Ory in the forties, including a pretty bowed solo on Mutt's
                  > > Blues.
                  > >
                  > > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                  > > <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>, reid1947@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi All,
                  > > > Not long ago someone (my apologies) remarked on string bass players of
                  > > > distinction and named John Lindsay from the Peppers and Steve Brown.
                  > > > I have been listening to my 3mp player all this week, and I would
                  > > like to
                  > > > add, in my opinion, 3 more notables.
                  > > > The bass player with Cab Calloway (I have been working away, so I
                  > > haven't
                  > > > had a chance to check out his name.) on "Aw You Dog"; the track
                  > > without the
                  > > > dog bark at the end.
                  > > > "Pops" Foster with The Luis Russell Orchestra, especially on "Doctor
                  > > Blues"
                  > > > and "Give Me Your Telephone Number".(What a superb band. They are up
                  > > there
                  > > > with the Peppers.)
                  > > > Walter Page on "Honeysuckle Rose" from Benny's 1938 Carnegie Hall
                  > > concert.
                  > > > I'm working on a few more.
                  > > >
                  > > > Peter L.
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Randy Skretvedt
                  Is Al Morgan playing bass on brother Sam s record of Steppin on the Gas ? That has a particularly propulsive bass--it really moves that performance along.
                  Message 8 of 18 , Aug 13 11:37 AM
                    Is Al Morgan playing bass on brother Sam's record of "Steppin' on the Gas"? That has a particularly propulsive bass--it really moves that performance along. So does Steve Brown on Goldkette's "My Pretty Girl" and the earliest take of Paul Whiteman's "From Monday On." (Two later takes substitute a tuba, and they're not nearly as exciting.)

                    --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "hans.eekhoff" <oriole@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Al Morgan was indeed superb - just look and listen to the last tune of this film!
                    >
                    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEoTwTYnc6g
                    >
                    > Hans Eekhoff
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, fearfeasa <fearfeasa@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Cab Calloway's bass player : Al Morgan from NO, brother of Sam, Ike
                    > > and Andrew.
                    > >
                    > > JT
                    > >
                    > > Ar 13/08/10 04:08 :21, scríobh ory1886:
                    > > >
                    > > > You may want to give Ed Garland a listen. He recorded some really nice
                    > > > stuff with Ory in the forties, including a pretty bowed solo on Mutt's
                    > > > Blues.
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>, reid1947@ wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi All,
                    > > > > Not long ago someone (my apologies) remarked on string bass players of
                    > > > > distinction and named John Lindsay from the Peppers and Steve Brown.
                    > > > > I have been listening to my 3mp player all this week, and I would
                    > > > like to
                    > > > > add, in my opinion, 3 more notables.
                    > > > > The bass player with Cab Calloway (I have been working away, so I
                    > > > haven't
                    > > > > had a chance to check out his name.) on "Aw You Dog"; the track
                    > > > without the
                    > > > > dog bark at the end.
                    > > > > "Pops" Foster with The Luis Russell Orchestra, especially on "Doctor
                    > > > Blues"
                    > > > > and "Give Me Your Telephone Number".(What a superb band. They are up
                    > > > there
                    > > > > with the Peppers.)
                    > > > > Walter Page on "Honeysuckle Rose" from Benny's 1938 Carnegie Hall
                    > > > concert.
                    > > > > I'm working on a few more.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Peter L.
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                  • fearfeasa
                    No, that s Sidney Brown. JT ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 18 , Aug 13 2:29 PM
                      No, that's Sidney Brown.

                      JT

                      Ar 13/08/10 19:37 :06, scríobh Randy Skretvedt:
                      >
                      > Is Al Morgan playing bass on brother Sam's record of "Steppin' on the
                      > Gas"? That has a particularly propulsive bass--it really moves that
                      > performance along. So does Steve Brown on Goldkette's "My Pretty Girl"
                      > and the earliest take of Paul Whiteman's "From Monday On." (Two later
                      > takes substitute a tuba, and they're not nearly as exciting.)
                      >
                      > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>, "hans.eekhoff" <oriole@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Al Morgan was indeed superb - just look and listen to the last tune
                      > of this film!
                      > >
                      > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEoTwTYnc6g
                      > >
                      > > Hans Eekhoff
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>, fearfeasa <fearfeasa@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Cab Calloway's bass player : Al Morgan from NO, brother of Sam, Ike
                      > > > and Andrew.
                      > > >
                      > > > JT
                      > > >
                      > > > Ar 13/08/10 04:08 :21, scríobh ory1886:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > You may want to give Ed Garland a listen. He recorded some
                      > really nice
                      > > > > stuff with Ory in the forties, including a pretty bowed solo on
                      > Mutt's
                      > > > > Blues.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > > <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>, reid1947@ wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hi All,
                      > > > > > Not long ago someone (my apologies) remarked on string bass
                      > players of
                      > > > > > distinction and named John Lindsay from the Peppers and Steve
                      > Brown.
                      > > > > > I have been listening to my 3mp player all this week, and I would
                      > > > > like to
                      > > > > > add, in my opinion, 3 more notables.
                      > > > > > The bass player with Cab Calloway (I have been working away, so I
                      > > > > haven't
                      > > > > > had a chance to check out his name.) on "Aw You Dog"; the track
                      > > > > without the
                      > > > > > dog bark at the end.
                      > > > > > "Pops" Foster with The Luis Russell Orchestra, especially on
                      > "Doctor
                      > > > > Blues"
                      > > > > > and "Give Me Your Telephone Number".(What a superb band. They
                      > are up
                      > > > > there
                      > > > > > with the Peppers.)
                      > > > > > Walter Page on "Honeysuckle Rose" from Benny's 1938 Carnegie Hall
                      > > > > concert.
                      > > > > > I'm working on a few more.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Peter L.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • jfpitet
                      Hi everyone, I m just plugging in the conversation but if ever you want to read a short biography about Al MORGAN, especially during his stay with Cab
                      Message 10 of 18 , Aug 14 1:09 PM
                        Hi everyone,

                        I'm just plugging in the conversation but if ever you want to read a short biography about Al MORGAN, especially during his stay with Cab Calloway, please visit my website : http://www.thehidehoblog.com/index.php?sujet_id=7092

                        Jeff Pitet
                        thehidehoblog@...
                        www.thehidehoblog.com


                        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Randy Skretvedt" <forwardintothepast@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Is Al Morgan playing bass on brother Sam's record of "Steppin' on the Gas"? That has a particularly propulsive bass--it really moves that performance along. So does Steve Brown on Goldkette's "My Pretty Girl" and the earliest take of Paul Whiteman's "From Monday On." (Two later takes substitute a tuba, and they're not nearly as exciting.)
                      • fearfeasa
                        Thanks, Jeff. Great website ! Chouette. JT ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 18 , Aug 15 5:04 PM
                          Thanks, Jeff. Great website ! Chouette.

                          JT

                          Ar 14/08/10 21:09 :58, scríobh jfpitet:
                          >
                          > Hi everyone,
                          >
                          > I'm just plugging in the conversation but if ever you want to read a
                          > short biography about Al MORGAN, especially during his stay with Cab
                          > Calloway, please visit my website :
                          > http://www.thehidehoblog.com/index.php?sujet_id=7092
                          >
                          > Jeff Pitet
                          > thehidehoblog@... <mailto:thehidehoblog%40gmail.com>
                          > www.thehidehoblog.com
                          >
                          > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                          > <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>, "Randy Skretvedt"
                          > <forwardintothepast@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Is Al Morgan playing bass on brother Sam's record of "Steppin' on
                          > the Gas"? That has a particularly propulsive bass--it really moves
                          > that performance along. So does Steve Brown on Goldkette's "My Pretty
                          > Girl" and the earliest take of Paul Whiteman's "From Monday On." (Two
                          > later takes substitute a tuba, and they're not nearly as exciting.)
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Agustin Perez Gasco
                          Dear list Recently, someone in other jazz email list reported that several tracks on discs 1 & 2 of the Armstrong Decca Mosaic have been transfered at the
                          Message 12 of 18 , Aug 20 12:51 AM
                            Dear list

                            Recently, someone in other jazz email list reported that several tracks on discs
                            1 & 2 of the Armstrong Decca Mosaic have been transfered at the wrong speed,
                            what makes it a difference of up to a half tone.

                            As I don't have that boxed set yet, could anybody confirm this?

                            (sorry if this has been discussed before or it is common knowledge, but I made a
                            quick search through the group's archives and could find anything related)

                            Best regards,
                            Agustín Pérez
                            ------------------------------------------------
                            Mule Walk & Jazz Talk:  http://thereisjazzbeforetrane.blogspot.com/




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • silverleafjb
                            Augustin - It might be useful to know which tracks you think are suspect. For the most part, I ve found that Armstrong tending to play tunes in the written
                            Message 13 of 18 , Aug 29 10:03 PM
                              Augustin - It might be useful to know which tracks you think are suspect. For the most part, I've found that Armstrong tending to play tunes in the written key. So anyone with a sheet music collection could confirm the correct key for various pieces.

                              Cheers,
                              Chris
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