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Re: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard

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  • Patrice Champarou
    ... From: Mordechai Litzman To: Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@...>
      To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
      Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard


      > One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano rolls

      Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he recorded
      *piano* solos?

      Patrice
    • Howard Rye
      This is somebody¹s misunderstanding of ³cylinders². Long ago the idea was dreamed up that the portfolio of Armstrong solos published by Melrose must have
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
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        This is somebody¹s misunderstanding of ³cylinders². Long ago the idea was
        dreamed up that the portfolio of Armstrong solos published by Melrose must
        have been based on recordings of those solos on dictaphone cylinders. As far
        as I know this is just a fairy tale.

        Recordings based on these ³lost recordings² are simply played from the sheet
        music.


        on 08/01/2010 09:29, Patrice Champarou at patrice.champarou@... wrote:

        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@... <mailto:folke613%40yahoo.com> >
        > To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com> >
        > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
        > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard
        >
        >> > One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano rolls
        >
        > Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he recorded
        > *piano* solos?
        >
        > Patrice
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
        howard@...
        Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nick Dellow
        Possibly it is a fairy tale , but interviewed about the matter in 1968, Elmer Schoebel stated: “During the Chicago days I was sharing an office with Walter
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
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          Possibly it is a 'fairy tale', but interviewed about the matter in 1968,
          Elmer Schoebel stated:

          �During the Chicago days I was sharing an office with Walter Melrose of the
          �Melrose Music Co.� One day in 1927, Melrose said he was going to publish a
          set of Louis Armstrong breaks, but there was a technical problem of getting
          the Armstrong �hot� breaks down on paper. Finally Melrose and I hit on the
          idea of having Armstrong record his breaks. We bought a $15 Edison cylinder
          phonograph and 50 wax cylinders, gave them to Louis and told him to play.
          The cylinders were duly filled up by Armstrong and the �breaks� were copied
          into written form. I transcribed the �breaks� which were published. These
          were not orchestrated at any time and were not made for that purpose. I had
          all the records (cylinders); later I turned them over to Melrose. When I was
          in Chicago, in 1949, a collector was offering $1000 per cylinder but Melrose
          and I couldn�t find them.�


          Does someone possess the Melrose book, "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses
          For Cornet", and if so, are the solos/breaks different from the OKeh
          records?



          Nick




          2010/1/8 Howard Rye <howard@...>

          >
          >
          > This is somebody�s misunderstanding of �cylinders�. Long ago the idea was
          > dreamed up that the portfolio of Armstrong solos published by Melrose must
          > have been based on recordings of those solos on dictaphone cylinders. As
          > far
          > as I know this is just a fairy tale.
          >
          > Recordings based on these �lost recordings� are simply played from the
          > sheet
          > music.
          >
          >
          > on 08/01/2010 09:29, Patrice Champarou at patrice.champarou@...<patrice.champarou%40free.fr>wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@... <folke613%40yahoo.com><mailto:
          > folke613%40yahoo.com <folke613%2540yahoo.com>> >
          > > To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
          > RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com <RedHotJazz%2540yahoogroups.com>> >
          > > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
          > > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard
          > >
          > >> > One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano
          > rolls
          > >
          > > Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he
          > recorded
          > > *piano* solos?
          > >
          > > Patrice
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
          > howard@... <howard%40coppermill.demon.co.uk>
          > Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Howard Rye
          Yeah, okay, Nick. The onus is on me to disprove this and obviously I can t! ... Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
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            Yeah, okay, Nick.

            The onus is on me to disprove this and obviously I can't!


            on 08/01/2010 10:10, Nick Dellow at nick.dellow@... wrote:

            > Possibly it is a 'fairy tale', but interviewed about the matter in 1968,
            > Elmer Schoebel stated:
            >
            > „During the Chicago days I was sharing an office with Walter Melrose of the
            > ŒMelrose Music Co.‚ One day in 1927, Melrose said he was going to publish a
            > set of Louis Armstrong breaks, but there was a technical problem of getting
            > the Armstrong Œhot‚ breaks down on paper. Finally Melrose and I hit on the
            > idea of having Armstrong record his breaks. We bought a $15 Edison cylinder
            > phonograph and 50 wax cylinders, gave them to Louis and told him to play.
            > The cylinders were duly filled up by Armstrong and the Œbreaks‚ were copied
            > into written form. I transcribed the Œbreaks‚ which were published. These
            > were not orchestrated at any time and were not made for that purpose. I had
            > all the records (cylinders); later I turned them over to Melrose. When I was
            > in Chicago, in 1949, a collector was offering $1000 per cylinder but Melrose
            > and I couldn‚t find them.‰
            >
            >
            > Does someone possess the Melrose book, "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses
            > For Cornet", and if so, are the solos/breaks different from the OKeh
            > records?
            >
            >
            >
            > Nick
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > 2010/1/8 Howard Rye <howard@...>
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> This is somebody’s misunderstanding of “cylinders”. Long ago the idea was
            >> dreamed up that the portfolio of Armstrong solos published by Melrose must
            >> have been based on recordings of those solos on dictaphone cylinders. As
            >> far
            >> as I know this is just a fairy tale.
            >>
            >> Recordings based on these “lost recordings” are simply played from the
            >> sheet
            >> music.
            >>
            >>
            >> on 08/01/2010 09:29, Patrice Champarou at
            >> patrice.champarou@...<patrice.champarou%40free.fr>wrote:
            >>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> ----- Original Message -----
            >>> From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@... <folke613%40yahoo.com><mailto:
            >> folke613%40yahoo.com <folke613%2540yahoo.com>> >
            >>> To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
            >> RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com <RedHotJazz%2540yahoogroups.com>> >
            >>> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
            >>> Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard
            >>>
            >>>>> One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano
            >> rolls
            >>>
            >>> Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he
            >> recorded
            >>> *piano* solos?
            >>>
            >>> Patrice
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >> Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
            >> howard@... <howard%40coppermill.demon.co.uk>
            >> Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >


            Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
            howard@...
            Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
          • Agustin Perez Gasco
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
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              <<<Does someone possess the Melrose book, "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses
              For Cornet", and if so, are the solos/breaks different from the OKeh
              records?
              Nick>>>

              You can check it thanks to Bent Persson's recreation for the Kenneth label: "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses for Cornet (1927) As Recreated By Bent Persson, vol. 1&2".

              These discs are hard to find, but Ricky Riccardi did upload some of these recordings in his invaluable blog "The Wonderful World Of Louis Armstrong":

              http://dippermouth.blogspot.com/2009/03/louis-armstrongs-50-hot-choruses.html

              http://dippermouth.blogspot.com/2009/03/in-loving-memory-of-gosta-hagglof.html


              Best regards,
              Agustín Pérez 
              ------------------------------------------------
              Mule Walk & Jazz Talk:  http://thereisjazzbeforetrane.blogspot.com/




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nick Dellow
              Many thanks. In my previous post, I should have mentioned that Melrose apparently published two books of Armstrong transcriptions, the other one being Louis
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
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                Many thanks.

                In my previous post, I should have mentioned that Melrose apparently
                published two books of Armstrong transcriptions, the other one being "Louis
                Armstrong's 125 Jazz Breaks for Cornet".


                2010/1/8 Agustin Perez Gasco <ekebbbapg@...>

                >
                >
                > <<<Does someone possess the Melrose book, "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot
                > Choruses
                > For Cornet", and if so, are the solos/breaks different from the OKeh
                > records?
                > Nick>>>
                >
                > You can check it thanks to Bent Persson's recreation for the Kenneth label:
                > "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses for Cornet (1927) As Recreated By Bent
                > Persson, vol. 1&2".
                >
                > These discs are hard to find, but Ricky Riccardi did upload some of these
                > recordings in his invaluable blog "The Wonderful World Of Louis Armstrong":
                >
                >
                > http://dippermouth.blogspot.com/2009/03/louis-armstrongs-50-hot-choruses.html
                >
                >
                > http://dippermouth.blogspot.com/2009/03/in-loving-memory-of-gosta-hagglof.html
                >
                > Best regards,
                > Agust�n P�rez
                > ------------------------------------------------
                > Mule Walk & Jazz Talk: http://thereisjazzbeforetrane.blogspot.com/
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mordechai Litzman
                I meant cylinder rolls ________________________________ From: Patrice Champarou To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
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                  I meant cylinder rolls




                  ________________________________
                  From: Patrice Champarou <patrice.champarou@...>
                  To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 4:29:26 AM
                  Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@yahoo. com>
                  To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
                  Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard

                  > One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano rolls

                  Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he recorded
                  *piano* solos?

                  Patrice







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mordechai Litzman
                  My source for this information comes from the record jackets of a 3 LP series entitled Louis Armstrong s 50 Hot Choruses for Cornet as Recreated by Bent
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
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                    My source for this information comes from the record jackets of a 3 LP series entitled "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses for Cornet as Recreated by Bent Persson" on the Kenneth label from Sweden. I quote:
                    "During the Chicago days I was sharing an office with Walter Melrose of the 'Melrose Music Co.' One day, in 1927, Melrose said that he was going to publish a set of Louis Armstrong breaks but there was a technical problem of getting the Armstrong 'hot' breaks down on paper. Finally, Melrose and I hit upon the idea of having Armstrong record his breaks. We bought a $15 Edison cylinder phonograph and 50 wax cylinders, gave them to Louis and told him to play. The cylinders were duly filled up by Armstrong and the 'breaks' were copied into written form. I transcribed the 'breaks', which were published. These were not orchestrated at any time, and were not made for that purpose."
                    The Elmer Schoebel story, Doctor Jazz No. 32 (Oct 1968).

                    The people in Sweden involved in this project spent years tracking down the tunes that are represented by the transcribed sheet music solos and breaks; it is possible that a few tunes have not been found yet.

                    IMHO, the above quote sounds plausible. According to the LP jacket information, the sheet music covers 53 solos and 119 breaks, and their method of capturing Louis' playing makes sense to me. I do not have access to the source quoted, but maybe the discographers/researchers in the RHJ group can verify this information.






                    ________________________________
                    From: Howard Rye <howard@...>
                    To: red hot jazz <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 4:44:22 AM
                    Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard


                    This is somebody¹s misunderstanding of ³cylinders². Long ago the idea was
                    dreamed up that the portfolio of Armstrong solos published by Melrose must
                    have been based on recordings of those solos on dictaphone cylinders. As far
                    as I know this is just a fairy tale.

                    Recordings based on these ³lost recordings² are simply played from the sheet
                    music.

                    on 08/01/2010 09:29, Patrice Champarou at patrice.champarou@ free.fr wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@yahoo. com <mailto:folke613% 40yahoo.com> >
                    > To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz% 40yahoogroups. com> >
                    > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
                    > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard
                    >
                    >> > One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano rolls
                    >
                    > Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he recorded
                    > *piano* solos?
                    >
                    > Patrice
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                    howard@coppermill. demon.co. uk
                    Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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