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Seldom heard

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  • Mordechai Litzman
    One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano rolls (lost) which were transcribed to sheet music is a tune called San Sue Strut. I have a
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 7, 2010
      One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano rolls (lost) which were transcribed to sheet music is a tune called San Sue Strut. I have a recording with Bent Persson and the Carling Family Band from Sweden playing this catchy tune. Looking for early versions of this tune I only found two:
      The Arcadian Serenaders from 1924 with the first recordings of Wingy Manone. He plays a nice solo around 1:50, and at the end we are treated to a genuine Oliver break.

      http://www.redhotjazz.com/arcadian.html

      The second recording is by the Casa Loma Orchestra 1930 (this issue is a German pressing using the name The OK Rhythm Kings) - also a very nice early big band recording.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTPfBMhpYAw

      Does anybody know of other early recordings of this great tune?





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Patrice Champarou
      ... From: Mordechai Litzman To: Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@...>
        To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
        Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard


        > One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano rolls

        Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he recorded
        *piano* solos?

        Patrice
      • Howard Rye
        This is somebody¹s misunderstanding of ³cylinders². Long ago the idea was dreamed up that the portfolio of Armstrong solos published by Melrose must have
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
          This is somebody¹s misunderstanding of ³cylinders². Long ago the idea was
          dreamed up that the portfolio of Armstrong solos published by Melrose must
          have been based on recordings of those solos on dictaphone cylinders. As far
          as I know this is just a fairy tale.

          Recordings based on these ³lost recordings² are simply played from the sheet
          music.


          on 08/01/2010 09:29, Patrice Champarou at patrice.champarou@... wrote:

          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@... <mailto:folke613%40yahoo.com> >
          > To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com> >
          > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
          > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard
          >
          >> > One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano rolls
          >
          > Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he recorded
          > *piano* solos?
          >
          > Patrice
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
          howard@...
          Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nick Dellow
          Possibly it is a fairy tale , but interviewed about the matter in 1968, Elmer Schoebel stated: “During the Chicago days I was sharing an office with Walter
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
            Possibly it is a 'fairy tale', but interviewed about the matter in 1968,
            Elmer Schoebel stated:

            �During the Chicago days I was sharing an office with Walter Melrose of the
            �Melrose Music Co.� One day in 1927, Melrose said he was going to publish a
            set of Louis Armstrong breaks, but there was a technical problem of getting
            the Armstrong �hot� breaks down on paper. Finally Melrose and I hit on the
            idea of having Armstrong record his breaks. We bought a $15 Edison cylinder
            phonograph and 50 wax cylinders, gave them to Louis and told him to play.
            The cylinders were duly filled up by Armstrong and the �breaks� were copied
            into written form. I transcribed the �breaks� which were published. These
            were not orchestrated at any time and were not made for that purpose. I had
            all the records (cylinders); later I turned them over to Melrose. When I was
            in Chicago, in 1949, a collector was offering $1000 per cylinder but Melrose
            and I couldn�t find them.�


            Does someone possess the Melrose book, "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses
            For Cornet", and if so, are the solos/breaks different from the OKeh
            records?



            Nick




            2010/1/8 Howard Rye <howard@...>

            >
            >
            > This is somebody�s misunderstanding of �cylinders�. Long ago the idea was
            > dreamed up that the portfolio of Armstrong solos published by Melrose must
            > have been based on recordings of those solos on dictaphone cylinders. As
            > far
            > as I know this is just a fairy tale.
            >
            > Recordings based on these �lost recordings� are simply played from the
            > sheet
            > music.
            >
            >
            > on 08/01/2010 09:29, Patrice Champarou at patrice.champarou@...<patrice.champarou%40free.fr>wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@... <folke613%40yahoo.com><mailto:
            > folke613%40yahoo.com <folke613%2540yahoo.com>> >
            > > To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
            > RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com <RedHotJazz%2540yahoogroups.com>> >
            > > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
            > > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard
            > >
            > >> > One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano
            > rolls
            > >
            > > Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he
            > recorded
            > > *piano* solos?
            > >
            > > Patrice
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
            > howard@... <howard%40coppermill.demon.co.uk>
            > Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Howard Rye
            Yeah, okay, Nick. The onus is on me to disprove this and obviously I can t! ... Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
              Yeah, okay, Nick.

              The onus is on me to disprove this and obviously I can't!


              on 08/01/2010 10:10, Nick Dellow at nick.dellow@... wrote:

              > Possibly it is a 'fairy tale', but interviewed about the matter in 1968,
              > Elmer Schoebel stated:
              >
              > „During the Chicago days I was sharing an office with Walter Melrose of the
              > ŒMelrose Music Co.‚ One day in 1927, Melrose said he was going to publish a
              > set of Louis Armstrong breaks, but there was a technical problem of getting
              > the Armstrong Œhot‚ breaks down on paper. Finally Melrose and I hit on the
              > idea of having Armstrong record his breaks. We bought a $15 Edison cylinder
              > phonograph and 50 wax cylinders, gave them to Louis and told him to play.
              > The cylinders were duly filled up by Armstrong and the Œbreaks‚ were copied
              > into written form. I transcribed the Œbreaks‚ which were published. These
              > were not orchestrated at any time and were not made for that purpose. I had
              > all the records (cylinders); later I turned them over to Melrose. When I was
              > in Chicago, in 1949, a collector was offering $1000 per cylinder but Melrose
              > and I couldn‚t find them.‰
              >
              >
              > Does someone possess the Melrose book, "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses
              > For Cornet", and if so, are the solos/breaks different from the OKeh
              > records?
              >
              >
              >
              > Nick
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 2010/1/8 Howard Rye <howard@...>
              >
              >>
              >>
              >> This is somebody’s misunderstanding of “cylinders”. Long ago the idea was
              >> dreamed up that the portfolio of Armstrong solos published by Melrose must
              >> have been based on recordings of those solos on dictaphone cylinders. As
              >> far
              >> as I know this is just a fairy tale.
              >>
              >> Recordings based on these “lost recordings” are simply played from the
              >> sheet
              >> music.
              >>
              >>
              >> on 08/01/2010 09:29, Patrice Champarou at
              >> patrice.champarou@...<patrice.champarou%40free.fr>wrote:
              >>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> ----- Original Message -----
              >>> From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@... <folke613%40yahoo.com><mailto:
              >> folke613%40yahoo.com <folke613%2540yahoo.com>> >
              >>> To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
              >> RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com <RedHotJazz%2540yahoogroups.com>> >
              >>> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
              >>> Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard
              >>>
              >>>>> One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano
              >> rolls
              >>>
              >>> Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he
              >> recorded
              >>> *piano* solos?
              >>>
              >>> Patrice
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>
              >> Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
              >> howard@... <howard%40coppermill.demon.co.uk>
              >> Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
              >>
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >


              Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
              howard@...
              Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
            • Agustin Perez Gasco
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
                <<<Does someone possess the Melrose book, "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses
                For Cornet", and if so, are the solos/breaks different from the OKeh
                records?
                Nick>>>

                You can check it thanks to Bent Persson's recreation for the Kenneth label: "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses for Cornet (1927) As Recreated By Bent Persson, vol. 1&2".

                These discs are hard to find, but Ricky Riccardi did upload some of these recordings in his invaluable blog "The Wonderful World Of Louis Armstrong":

                http://dippermouth.blogspot.com/2009/03/louis-armstrongs-50-hot-choruses.html

                http://dippermouth.blogspot.com/2009/03/in-loving-memory-of-gosta-hagglof.html


                Best regards,
                Agustín Pérez 
                ------------------------------------------------
                Mule Walk & Jazz Talk:  http://thereisjazzbeforetrane.blogspot.com/




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nick Dellow
                Many thanks. In my previous post, I should have mentioned that Melrose apparently published two books of Armstrong transcriptions, the other one being Louis
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
                  Many thanks.

                  In my previous post, I should have mentioned that Melrose apparently
                  published two books of Armstrong transcriptions, the other one being "Louis
                  Armstrong's 125 Jazz Breaks for Cornet".


                  2010/1/8 Agustin Perez Gasco <ekebbbapg@...>

                  >
                  >
                  > <<<Does someone possess the Melrose book, "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot
                  > Choruses
                  > For Cornet", and if so, are the solos/breaks different from the OKeh
                  > records?
                  > Nick>>>
                  >
                  > You can check it thanks to Bent Persson's recreation for the Kenneth label:
                  > "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses for Cornet (1927) As Recreated By Bent
                  > Persson, vol. 1&2".
                  >
                  > These discs are hard to find, but Ricky Riccardi did upload some of these
                  > recordings in his invaluable blog "The Wonderful World Of Louis Armstrong":
                  >
                  >
                  > http://dippermouth.blogspot.com/2009/03/louis-armstrongs-50-hot-choruses.html
                  >
                  >
                  > http://dippermouth.blogspot.com/2009/03/in-loving-memory-of-gosta-hagglof.html
                  >
                  > Best regards,
                  > Agust�n P�rez
                  > ------------------------------------------------
                  > Mule Walk & Jazz Talk: http://thereisjazzbeforetrane.blogspot.com/
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mordechai Litzman
                  I meant cylinder rolls ________________________________ From: Patrice Champarou To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
                    I meant cylinder rolls




                    ________________________________
                    From: Patrice Champarou <patrice.champarou@...>
                    To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 4:29:26 AM
                    Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard



                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@yahoo. com>
                    To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
                    Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard

                    > One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano rolls

                    Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he recorded
                    *piano* solos?

                    Patrice







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Mordechai Litzman
                    My source for this information comes from the record jackets of a 3 LP series entitled Louis Armstrong s 50 Hot Choruses for Cornet as Recreated by Bent
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 8, 2010
                      My source for this information comes from the record jackets of a 3 LP series entitled "Louis Armstrong's 50 Hot Choruses for Cornet as Recreated by Bent Persson" on the Kenneth label from Sweden. I quote:
                      "During the Chicago days I was sharing an office with Walter Melrose of the 'Melrose Music Co.' One day, in 1927, Melrose said that he was going to publish a set of Louis Armstrong breaks but there was a technical problem of getting the Armstrong 'hot' breaks down on paper. Finally, Melrose and I hit upon the idea of having Armstrong record his breaks. We bought a $15 Edison cylinder phonograph and 50 wax cylinders, gave them to Louis and told him to play. The cylinders were duly filled up by Armstrong and the 'breaks' were copied into written form. I transcribed the 'breaks', which were published. These were not orchestrated at any time, and were not made for that purpose."
                      The Elmer Schoebel story, Doctor Jazz No. 32 (Oct 1968).

                      The people in Sweden involved in this project spent years tracking down the tunes that are represented by the transcribed sheet music solos and breaks; it is possible that a few tunes have not been found yet.

                      IMHO, the above quote sounds plausible. According to the LP jacket information, the sheet music covers 53 solos and 119 breaks, and their method of capturing Louis' playing makes sense to me. I do not have access to the source quoted, but maybe the discographers/researchers in the RHJ group can verify this information.






                      ________________________________
                      From: Howard Rye <howard@...>
                      To: red hot jazz <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 4:44:22 AM
                      Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard


                      This is somebody¹s misunderstanding of ³cylinders². Long ago the idea was
                      dreamed up that the portfolio of Armstrong solos published by Melrose must
                      have been based on recordings of those solos on dictaphone cylinders. As far
                      as I know this is just a fairy tale.

                      Recordings based on these ³lost recordings² are simply played from the sheet
                      music.

                      on 08/01/2010 09:29, Patrice Champarou at patrice.champarou@ free.fr wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Mordechai Litzman" <folke613@yahoo. com <mailto:folke613% 40yahoo.com> >
                      > To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz% 40yahoogroups. com> >
                      > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 5:38 AM
                      > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Seldom heard
                      >
                      >> > One of the 50 solos that Louis Armstrong recorded in 1927 on piano rolls
                      >
                      > Sorry about my ignorance, do I have to clearly understand that he recorded
                      > *piano* solos?
                      >
                      > Patrice
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                      howard@coppermill. demon.co. uk
                      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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