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Re: Churnbad

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  • ikey100
    Banks certainly does deserve better research; being another figure who lived the transition from brass bands to jazz bands, and like the younger Pete Johnson,
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 23, 2009
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      Banks certainly does deserve better research; being another figure who lived the transition from brass bands to jazz bands, and like the younger Pete Johnson, began as a drummer before switching to piano. I presume your searches turned up the photos of his six piece band, and accompaning Lena and Sylvester Kimbrough.

      And rather than being offended, I wish to thank you for furthering the worthy cause, as perhaps first suggested here on RHJ (messages #7654 and 7657), of codifying "chadbourne" as a word that denotes unoriginal, possibly unreliable information delivered in an irritating andd unnecessarily flamboyant style, without source credits given.

      Warren

      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "serapion@..." <serapion@...> wrote:
      >
      > Having just acquired a sampling of Paul Banks, early jazz pianist of Kansas City, I found some nice details online, including an interview etc. in Jazz Journal 1958. And yes, I am ten miles away from a reference library which has this.
      > There is also a Chadbourne on Answers.com... It might well have been lifted from amg, but my digestion is not in a state to allow me to check.
      > and apparently nobody knows anything about Paul Banks....
      > I would have said nobody knows nothing but -- rather than being a nobody -- Chadbourne the inditer of supposed reference entries is definitely a negative quantity
      >
      > he even manages to say that there was more of a scent of horse manure in the KC where Paul Banks flourished . . . than there was later.
      >
      > This is classic Crudbumme. Extravagant statement in a fake flourish.
      > He can't know what horse manure smells like because unless he wears a mask when concocting his fallacies the scent of the stuff which feeds seed potatoes is presumably uniquitous where he does his writing.
      >
      > Sorry if this offends, but I don't believe in being silent where the Churnbad species is active with words and words.
      >
    • Bob Eagle
      The bare bones re Paul Banks are that he was born in Topeka, KS in 1892, elder brother of Julius (born 1894) and Clifton (1898), also musicians.  Paul s
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 23, 2009
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        The "bare bones" re Paul Banks are that he was born in Topeka, KS in 1892, elder brother of Julius (born 1894) and Clifton (1898), also musicians.  Paul's other occupation was as a butcher.  The family had moved to Kansas City, KS by 1905, and Paul died there in 1966.
         
        Bob

        --- On Wed, 23/12/09, serapion@... <serapion@...> wrote:


        From: serapion@... <serapion@...>
        Subject: [RedHotJazz] Churnbad
        To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        Received: Wednesday, 23 December, 2009, 10:07 PM


         



        Having just acquired a sampling of Paul Banks, early jazz pianist of Kansas City, I found some nice details online, including an interview etc. in Jazz Journal 1958. And yes, I am ten miles away from a reference library which has this.
        There is also a Chadbourne on Answers.com. .. It might well have been lifted from amg, but my digestion is not in a state to allow me to check.
        and apparently nobody knows anything about Paul Banks....
        I would have said nobody knows nothing but -- rather than being a nobody -- Chadbourne the inditer of supposed reference entries is definitely a negative quantity

        he even manages to say that there was more of a scent of horse manure in the KC where Paul Banks flourished . . . than there was later.

        This is classic Crudbumme. Extravagant statement in a fake flourish.
        He can't know what horse manure smells like because unless he wears a mask when concocting his fallacies the scent of the stuff which feeds seed potatoes is presumably uniquitous where he does his writing.

        Sorry if this offends, but I don't believe in being silent where the Churnbad species is active with words and words.









        __________________________________________________________________________________
        See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/

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      • yves francois
          hello my friends here at RHJ, a little more to add from what Bob mentioned   RE: Paul Banks (pianist) - the most data I have is from Albert McCarthy s
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 23, 2009
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            hello my friends here at RHJ, a little more to add from what Bob mentioned   RE: Paul Banks (pianist) - the most data I have is from Albert McCarthy's book "Big and Jazz" (in the hard cover edition p 140/41) - led bands in the 1920's and 30's - his band in May 1930 had Paul Webster (trumpet), Booker Pittman (reeds) and Baby Lovett (drums) - according to Ike Bell (banjo player in the later 1920's) the band played rather commercial music (they played mostly white jobs, presumably for better money) and that Frank Driggs interviewed him in the later 1950's.hope this helps more than EC ... by the way
              PS re Chadborne - he seems to regurgitate other peoples information with a very curious turn of phrase -amongst other problems with his data,is that he does not quote his sources. I do not care for this practice, real researchers prefer to quote where they received their data from - and do not speak of horse manure when it is not appropriate (makes the writer smell like the aforementioned material sort to speak).
          all the bestYves François






















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bob Eagle
          Paul Banks and his brother, Clifton, accompanied Lottie Beaman (as Lena Kimbrough ) in 1926.  Although her 1928 Gennett session probably featured guitarist
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 25, 2009
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            Paul Banks and his brother, Clifton, accompanied Lottie Beaman (as "Lena Kimbrough") in 1926.  Although her 1928 Gennett session probably featured guitarist Miles Pruitt, an unknown cornetist and pianist are also present.  The pianist may be Banks, in which case perhaps the undermentioned Paul Webster may be the cornetist ("Blue World Blues").
             
            Bob

            --- On Thu, 24/12/09, yves francois <aprestitine@...> wrote:


            From: yves francois <aprestitine@...>
            Subject: Re: PAUL BANKS [RedHotJazz] Churnbad
            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Received: Thursday, 24 December, 2009, 1:58 PM


             



              hello my friends here at RHJ, a little more to add from what Bob mentioned   RE: Paul Banks (pianist) - the most data I have is from Albert McCarthy's book "Big and Jazz" (in the hard cover edition p 140/41) - led bands in the 1920's and 30's - his band in May 1930 had Paul Webster (trumpet), Booker Pittman (reeds) and Baby Lovett (drums) - according to Ike Bell (banjo player in the later 1920's) the band played rather commercial music (they played mostly white jobs, presumably for better money) and that Frank Driggs interviewed him in the later 1950's.hope this helps more than EC ... by the way
                PS re Chadborne - he seems to regurgitate other peoples information with a very curious turn of phrase -amongst other problems with his data,is that he does not quote his sources. I do not care for this practice, real researchers prefer to quote where they received their data from - and do not speak of horse manure when it is not appropriate (makes the writer smell like the aforementioned material sort to speak).
            all the bestYves François

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









            __________________________________________________________________________________
            See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andrew
            This is a classic post. I love how you call him Churnbad and Crudbumme. That is one of the funniest things I ve ever seen. I want to frame this post and hang
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 30, 2010
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              This is a classic post. I love how you call him Churnbad and Crudbumme. That is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. I want to frame this post and hang it on the wall!

              Yes, Eugene Chadbourne is definitely on my (very short) "most hated" list. He has slandered far too many of my favorite musicians for me to take kindly to the knucklehead at all.

              And... I don't think he's even a piano player.

              -Andrew

              --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "serapion@..." <serapion@...> wrote:
              >
              > Having just acquired a sampling of Paul Banks, early jazz pianist of Kansas City, I found some nice details online, including an interview etc. in Jazz Journal 1958. And yes, I am ten miles away from a reference library which has this.
              > There is also a Chadbourne on Answers.com... It might well have been lifted from amg, but my digestion is not in a state to allow me to check.
              > and apparently nobody knows anything about Paul Banks....
              > I would have said nobody knows nothing but -- rather than being a nobody -- Chadbourne the inditer of supposed reference entries is definitely a negative quantity
              >
              > he even manages to say that there was more of a scent of horse manure in the KC where Paul Banks flourished . . . than there was later.
              >
              > This is classic Crudbumme. Extravagant statement in a fake flourish.
              > He can't know what horse manure smells like because unless he wears a mask when concocting his fallacies the scent of the stuff which feeds seed potatoes is presumably uniquitous where he does his writing.
              >
              > Sorry if this offends, but I don't believe in being silent where the Churnbad species is active with words and words.
              >
            • Andrew
              I think I have found what is possibly Churnbad s best writing. He seems to really like singer Margaret Johnson. Take a look:
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 30, 2010
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                I think I have found what is possibly Churnbad's best writing. He seems to really like singer Margaret Johnson. Take a look:

                http://www.amazon.com/Margaret-Johnson/e/B000APVOQY/ref=ac_dpt_sa_bio

                In my opinion, this is decent writing and far removed from his other stupid stuff.

                RAGards,
                Andrew

                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <rag1916@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > This is a classic post. I love how you call him Churnbad and Crudbumme. That is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. I want to frame this post and hang it on the wall!
                >
                > Yes, Eugene Chadbourne is definitely on my (very short) "most hated" list. He has slandered far too many of my favorite musicians for me to take kindly to the knucklehead at all.
                >
                > And... I don't think he's even a piano player.
                >
                > -Andrew
                >
                > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "serapion@" <serapion@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Having just acquired a sampling of Paul Banks, early jazz pianist of Kansas City, I found some nice details online, including an interview etc. in Jazz Journal 1958. And yes, I am ten miles away from a reference library which has this.
                > > There is also a Chadbourne on Answers.com... It might well have been lifted from amg, but my digestion is not in a state to allow me to check.
                > > and apparently nobody knows anything about Paul Banks....
                > > I would have said nobody knows nothing but -- rather than being a nobody -- Chadbourne the inditer of supposed reference entries is definitely a negative quantity
                > >
                > > he even manages to say that there was more of a scent of horse manure in the KC where Paul Banks flourished . . . than there was later.
                > >
                > > This is classic Crudbumme. Extravagant statement in a fake flourish.
                > > He can't know what horse manure smells like because unless he wears a mask when concocting his fallacies the scent of the stuff which feeds seed potatoes is presumably uniquitous where he does his writing.
                > >
                > > Sorry if this offends, but I don't believe in being silent where the Churnbad species is active with words and words.
                > >
                >
              • Bob Eagle
                I agree that this writing is better than most of his stuff, but it still suffers from the fact that he can t contribute any original research to save himself.
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 30, 2010
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                  I agree that this writing is better than most of his stuff, but it still suffers from the fact that he can't contribute any original research to save himself.

                  Others have repeated the old canard about Margaret Johnson turning to piano accompaniments in later years, but it is a common name and there is nothing to show that they are the same person.  It seems most likely that the pianist was at least a decade younger than the singer, and indications are that they came from totally different parts of the country.

                  Churnbad and his ilk can survive only because of the dearth of evidence about a lot of early performers (both jazz and blues) which allows them to indulge in fantasy and supposition without hindrance.

                  Bob




                  ________________________________
                  From: Andrew <rag1916@...>
                  To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sat, 1 May, 2010 5:34:55 AM
                  Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Churnbad

                   
                  I think I have found what is possibly Churnbad's best writing. He seems to really like singer Margaret Johnson. Take a look:

                  http://www.amazon com/Margaret- Johnson/e/ B000APVOQY/ ref=ac_dpt_ sa_bio

                  In my opinion, this is decent writing and far removed from his other stupid stuff.

                  RAGards,
                  Andrew

                  --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com, "Andrew" <rag1916@... > wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > This is a classic post. I love how you call him Churnbad and Crudbumme. That is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. I want to frame this post and hang it on the wall!
                  >
                  > Yes, Eugene Chadbourne is definitely on my (very short) "most hated" list. He has slandered far too many of my favorite musicians for me to take kindly to the knucklehead at all.
                  >
                  > And... I don't think he's even a piano player.
                  >
                  > -Andrew
                  >
                  > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com, "serapion@" <serapion@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Having just acquired a sampling of Paul Banks, early jazz pianist of Kansas City, I found some nice details online, including an interview etc. in Jazz Journal 1958. And yes, I am ten miles away from a reference library which has this.
                  > > There is also a Chadbourne on Answers.com. .. It might well have been lifted from amg, but my digestion is not in a state to allow me to check.
                  > > and apparently nobody knows anything about Paul Banks....
                  > > I would have said nobody knows nothing but -- rather than being a nobody -- Chadbourne the inditer of supposed reference entries is definitely a negative quantity
                  > >
                  > > he even manages to say that there was more of a scent of horse manure in the KC where Paul Banks flourished . . . than there was later.
                  > >
                  > > This is classic Crudbumme. Extravagant statement in a fake flourish.
                  > > He can't know what horse manure smells like because unless he wears a mask when concocting his fallacies the scent of the stuff which feeds seed potatoes is presumably uniquitous where he does his writing.
                  > >
                  > > Sorry if this offends, but I don't believe in being silent where the Churnbad species is active with words and words.
                  > >
                  >







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • serapion@btinternet.com
                  I see that some silly person has copied the Chadbourne about Margaret Johnson working with Lester Young from Ailing Music Guide into Wiki (but here wonky)
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 1, 2010
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                    I see that some silly person has copied the Chadbourne about Margaret Johnson working with Lester Young from Ailing Music Guide into Wiki (but here wonky) pedia.

                    Margaret "Countess" or "Queenie" Johnson was a girl prodigy on piano, and her life is well documented. There was so little of it. So it's even worse that the cad Chavbrains should seek to bury her in a fake entry about an earlier singer.
                    If they were the same it would have been a little more obvious that the woman who later recorded with Lester Young was only four years old when she supposedly recorded with was it Bechet (how much grease does a girl of that age need in her frying pan?) ?

                    The beast some call Eugene Chadbourne is actually a banjo-player. I am not joking! When still living in Germany I decided against going to see him playing in the band of a Japanese lady who seemed more likely to be sending up 1920s cliches according to 21st century prejudices, than actually to be serving musical ends in their Waller programme. Who knows, I might have forestalled the writing of some rubbish if I'd gone along, since the surgical extraction of a banjo whence I might have thrust his would have been a potentially life-threatening procedure.

                    If anyone has the expertise to adjust the wiki entry on Margaret Johnson and could also upload one for the other lady I'd be delighted to assist. There is plenty on "Countess" Johnson (as I recall she was known as "Queenie" normally but her one recording session was with Basie sidemen -- Ruby Braff enthuses about it in his immortal interview with Jim Godbolt). She died of TB aged around twenty.

                    Eugene Chadbourne does present evidence of being a self-serving swollen-headed sheud and pschitt. The added excrescence in Wikipedia is credited to ALL MUSIC GUIDE. They were singularly unresponsive when I complained about the Chadbournism of the George Chisholm entry.

                    all the best to you all,

                    Robert
                    --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Bob Eagle <prof_hi_jinx@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I agree that this writing is better than most of his stuff, but it still suffers from the fact that he can't contribute any original research to save himself.
                    >
                    > Others have repeated the old canard about Margaret Johnson turning to piano accompaniments in later years, but it is a common name and there is nothing to show that they are the same person.  It seems most likely that the pianist was at least a decade younger than the singer, and indications are that they came from totally different parts of the country.
                    >
                    > Churnbad and his ilk can survive only because of the dearth of evidence about a lot of early performers (both jazz and blues) which allows them to indulge in fantasy and supposition without hindrance.
                    >
                    > Bob
                    > > ________________________________
                    > From: Andrew <rag1916@...>
                    > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sat, 1 May, 2010 5:34:55 AM
                    > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Churnbad
                    >
                    >  
                    > I think I have found what is possibly Churnbad's best writing. He seems to really like singer Margaret Johnson. Take a look:
                    >
                    > http://www.amazon com/Margaret- Johnson/e/ B000APVOQY/ ref=ac_dpt_ sa_bio
                    >
                    >
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