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First ever recording featuring brushes?

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  • Gerry Paton
    Hi all. I m new here.  The last few years I ve taken up drumming and have a question for you: Can anyone name the first ever recording featuring drums played
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 7, 2009
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      Hi all. I'm new here.  The last few years I've taken up drumming and have a question for you:
      Can anyone name the first ever recording featuring drums played using brushes?  

      I think the earliest recording I've come across so far is the Fletcher Henderson recording Copenhagen. I say think as the brush sound (if that's what it is) is pretty 'unique'. There's a section where you hear a percussion effect like a wet rag being slapped on a hard floor. This same sound can be heard on the track Knockin' A Jug by Louis Armstrong and his Orchestra in 1928. The drummer, Kaiser Marshall, played on both tracks and is definitely playing brushes on Knockin' A Jug: you can hear the sweep.  

      I've experimented with dead-sticking brushes on the drum head, using either hand, and provided a little force is used the sound is remarkably close to the effect Marshall achieved. Not exactly a sensitive performance, and not a style I'd like to emulate, but it does suggest that Marshall was using brushes during part of Copenhagen. Or are my ears deceiving me?  

      Anyway, if anyone knows of earlier performances featuring brushes, I'd love to hear from you.
      Gerry




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • kbrau44
      Hi Gerry, I think it is high time that at least one person reacts on your query. I must admit that I have not yet listened to Copenhagen after reading your
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 29, 2009
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        Hi Gerry, I think it is high time that at least one person reacts on your query. I must admit that I have not yet listened to Copenhagen after reading your message, but I certainly shall do. According to New Grove Dictonary of Jazz brushes seem to have been invented in the early 20s, and I vaguely remember Baby Dodds and Ben Pollack claiming to have invented them (but I may be wrong at that point), but I very often seemed to hear brushes on early recordings when, after repeated listening, I became convinced that it were sticks (single strokes). But I agree whole-heartedly, that Marshall is playing brushes - as well as sticks - on Knockin´ A Jug. You should have a look to Louis Armstrong´s band in Copenhagen 1932 - I mean the film-clips - Oliver Tynes on drums, and you can see him playing brushes, which certainly is different than they are played today (Look them up on Youtube or Dailymotion or on Yazoo´s Jazz Band Ball). But I would suggest that you listen to J.R.Morton Trio with Bigard and Singleton, and then sort out what Zutty is playing where. And then we meet again on these sides here. Okeh? Best K-B

        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Gerry Paton <gerry.paton@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all. I'm new here.  The last few years I've taken up drumming and have a question for you:
        > Can anyone name the first ever recording featuring drums played using brushes?  
        >
        > I think the earliest recording I've come across so far is the Fletcher Henderson recording Copenhagen. I say think as the brush sound (if that's what it is) is pretty 'unique'. There's a section where you hear a percussion effect like a wet rag being slapped on a hard floor. This same sound can be heard on the track Knockin' A Jug by Louis Armstrong and his Orchestra in 1928. The drummer, Kaiser Marshall, played on both tracks and is definitely playing brushes on Knockin' A Jug: you can hear the sweep.  
        >
        > I've experimented with dead-sticking brushes on the drum head, using either hand, and provided a little force is used the sound is remarkably close to the effect Marshall achieved. Not exactly a sensitive performance, and not a style I'd like to emulate, but it does suggest that Marshall was using brushes during part of Copenhagen. Or are my ears deceiving me?  
        >
        > Anyway, if anyone knows of earlier performances featuring brushes, I'd love to hear from you.
        > Gerry
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Sue Fischer
        I can t say when the earliest recording was, but I ve seen ads for fan brushes in music magazines as early as 1921. One ad called them Dixie Jazz Sticks.
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 29, 2009
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          I can't say when the earliest recording was, but I've seen ads for fan
          brushes in music magazines as early as 1921. One ad called them "Dixie Jazz
          Sticks." (And some drummers were said to have used fly swatters.)

          Monk Hazel said that most New Orleans players used them (in dance bands)
          earlier than that. So I would doubt that Ben Pollack had anything to do
          with inventing them. Baby Dodds has a better claim.

          Sue

          On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 7:27 AM, kbrau44 <kbrau44@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Hi Gerry, I think it is high time that at least one person reacts on your
          > query. I must admit that I have not yet listened to Copenhagen after reading
          > your message, but I certainly shall do. According to New Grove Dictonary of
          > Jazz brushes seem to have been invented in the early 20s, and I vaguely
          > remember Baby Dodds and Ben Pollack claiming to have invented them (but I
          > may be wrong at that point), but I very often seemed to hear brushes on
          > early recordings when, after repeated listening, I became convinced that it
          > were sticks (single strokes). But I agree whole-heartedly, that Marshall is
          > playing brushes - as well as sticks - on Knockin´ A Jug. You should have a
          > look to Louis Armstrong´s band in Copenhagen 1932 - I mean the film-clips -
          > Oliver Tynes on drums, and you can see him playing brushes, which certainly
          > is different than they are played today (Look them up on Youtube or
          > Dailymotion or on Yazoo´s Jazz Band Ball). But I would suggest that you
          > listen to J.R.Morton Trio with Bigard and Singleton, and then sort out what
          > Zutty is playing where. And then we meet again on these sides here. Okeh?
          > Best K-B
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael Rader
          There are a couple of written histories of jazz drumming and one by Theodore D. Brown (quoted in the booklet with Anthology of Jazz Drumming Vol.1 on
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 29, 2009
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            There are a couple of written histories of jazz drumming and one by Theodore D. Brown (quoted in the booklet with Anthology of Jazz Drumming Vol.1 on Media7/Masters of Jazz) is said to credit Ben Pollack in December 1927 with having been recorded first using brushes. However, Georges Paczynski, the author of Une Histoire de la Batterie de Jazz, credits Sonny Greer, who used brushes on "If You Can't Hold The Man You Love" with Evelyn Preer on 10 January 1927.

            Michael Rader
            ______________________________________________________
            GRATIS für alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
            Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de
          • jtdyamond
            Old Man Louis Cottrell from the Piron Orch was the great New Orleans drum master of his day for the Creole and Black communities. He was a very fastidious man,
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 29, 2009
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              Old Man Louis Cottrell from the Piron Orch was the great New Orleans drum master of his day for the Creole and Black communities. He was a very fastidious man, proud of his profession, who always kept his kit in prime condition. As soon as the new-fangled brushes came out, wanting to keep up with the latest developments in his craft, he bought himself a pair and tried them out.

              Though he found the effect they produced interesting, he was horrified to see that the metal brushes left a stain on his pristine pigskin drumhead. He discarded them immediately and was sure to instruct every one of his students to avoid them like the plague.

              The effect of this was to reinforce the pre-eminence of the press-roll in New Orleans drumming, which is its salient feature to this day. Baby Dodds - one of Cottrell's pupils - almost never (if ever!) used brushes. On the other hand, Zutty Singleton - another of Cottrell's pupils - took to them, probably after leaving New Orleans, and used them to good effect on many recordings.

              As regards the White school of New Orleans drumming: the most prominent New Orleans white drummer would have to be the sublime Ray Bauduc of the Bob Crosby Orch. I've heard all their recordings and cannot recall one in which Bauduc used brushes rather than press-rolls - which is not to say he never did!

              I am far from disputing Monk Hazel's quoted assertion "that most New Orleans players used them (in dance bands) earlier than [1921]" - but this would be in reference to white drummers only. As for the earliest recording of brushes: I'd suggest that a trawl through white New York dance-band recordings of the early to mid-1920s - bands such as Sam Lanin's Orch - might bring us closer to the answer.

              jtdyamond

              --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Sue Fischer <loerchen2@...> wrote:
              >
              > I can't say when the earliest recording was, but I've seen ads for fan
              > brushes in music magazines as early as 1921. One ad called them "Dixie Jazz
              > Sticks." (And some drummers were said to have used fly swatters.)
              >
              > Monk Hazel said that most New Orleans players used them (in dance bands)
              > earlier than that. So I would doubt that Ben Pollack had anything to do
              > with inventing them. Baby Dodds has a better claim.
              >
              > Sue
              >
              > On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 7:27 AM, kbrau44 <kbrau44@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi Gerry, I think it is high time that at least one person reacts on your
              > > query. I must admit that I have not yet listened to Copenhagen after reading
              > > your message, but I certainly shall do. According to New Grove Dictonary of
              > > Jazz brushes seem to have been invented in the early 20s, and I vaguely
              > > remember Baby Dodds and Ben Pollack claiming to have invented them (but I
              > > may be wrong at that point), but I very often seemed to hear brushes on
              > > early recordings when, after repeated listening, I became convinced that it
              > > were sticks (single strokes). But I agree whole-heartedly, that Marshall is
              > > playing brushes - as well as sticks - on Knockin´ A Jug. You should have a
              > > look to Louis Armstrong´s band in Copenhagen 1932 - I mean the film-clips -
              > > Oliver Tynes on drums, and you can see him playing brushes, which certainly
              > > is different than they are played today (Look them up on Youtube or
              > > Dailymotion or on Yazoo´s Jazz Band Ball). But I would suggest that you
              > > listen to J.R.Morton Trio with Bigard and Singleton, and then sort out what
              > > Zutty is playing where. And then we meet again on these sides here. Okeh?
              > > Best K-B
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Martin J
              -Ralph Berton, writer and brother of drummer and band leader Vic Berton, claims in his semi-autobiography – Remembering Bix – that Vic invented wire
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 29, 2009
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                -Ralph Berton, writer and brother of drummer and band leader Vic Berton, claims in his semi-autobiography – Remembering Bix – that Vic invented wire brushes.

                On page 100 Ralph writes: "His (Vic's) next business triumph occurred around 1921…" ""Vic dug the sound (of upended suitcase and a pair of whisk brooms) and again devised a professional improvements: in our garage he hammered together, onto a pair of flat wooden sticks, two fan-shaped bundles of short steel wires, clamped together at their vertexes. He had just invented wire brushes." "Vic Berton never made a nickel out of it, nor, so far as I know, even got official credit."

                Ralph also claims Vic introduced the metal rod for holding cymbals upright, and his crowning invention, the sock cymbal in 1922.

                There may be some tunnel vision applied to these claims in support of his older brother. I'm just reporting the claim.

                As far as a first recording, I'll be investigating early recordings where Vic is playing drums to see if I might ID the early use of brushes.
              • Sue Fischer
                Another early instance -- Hal Smith mentions the 1926 Red Hot Peppers recordings with Andrew Hillaire.... I don t think I would believe anything that Ralph
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 29, 2009
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                  Another early instance -- Hal Smith mentions the 1926 Red Hot Peppers
                  recordings with Andrew Hillaire....

                  I don't think I would believe anything that Ralph Berton says, considering
                  the other fictions in his book. But now I've got to go back and see if
                  those ads for brushes appear before 1921 --

                  Sue



                  On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Martin J <martin@...>wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -Ralph Berton, writer and brother of drummer and band leader Vic Berton,
                  > claims in his semi-autobiography � Remembering Bix � that Vic invented wire
                  > brushes.
                  >
                  > On page 100 Ralph writes: "His (Vic's) next business triumph occurred
                  > around 1921�" ""Vic dug the sound (of upended suitcase and a pair of whisk
                  > brooms) and again devised a professional improvements: in our garage he
                  > hammered together, onto a pair of flat wooden sticks, two fan-shaped bundles
                  > of short steel wires, clamped together at their vertexes. He had just
                  > invented wire brushes." "Vic Berton never made a nickel out of it, nor, so
                  > far as I know, even got official credit."
                  >
                  > Ralph also claims Vic introduced the metal rod for holding cymbals upright,
                  > and his crowning invention, the sock cymbal in 1922.
                  >
                  > There may be some tunnel vision applied to these claims in support of his
                  > older brother. I'm just reporting the claim.
                  >
                  > As far as a first recording, I'll be investigating early recordings where
                  > Vic is playing drums to see if I might ID the early use of brushes.
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mordechai Litzman
                  Here is a site called Vintage Drum Forum with an enormous amount of information about the use of brushes in jazz with many references and quotes listed. Really
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 30, 2009
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                    Here is a site called Vintage Drum Forum with an enormous amount of information about the use of brushes in jazz with many references and quotes listed. Really fascinating reading!
                    There is a reference to a 1924 film clip as the oldest recorded use of brushes.
                    A wealth of information and very interesting, but too long to quote.
                    And of course, Jelly Roll Morton claims that he invented the brushes!

                    http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=10441




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • silverleafjb
                    To my knowledge, the first recording of brushes may be land Of Cotton Blues by the Georgians, from Sept. 6, 1923. In Dick Sudhalter s book Lost Chords he
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 1, 2010
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                      To my knowledge, the first recording of brushes may be "land Of Cotton Blues" by the Georgians, from Sept. 6, 1923. In Dick Sudhalter's book "Lost Chords" he suggests this may also be the first drum solo (by Chauncey Morehouse).

                      Cheers,
                      Chris Tyle
                      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Gerry Paton <gerry.paton@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi all. I'm new here.  The last few years I've taken up drumming and have a question for you:
                      > Can anyone name the first ever recording featuring drums played using brushes?  
                      >
                      > I think the earliest recording I've come across so far is the Fletcher Henderson recording Copenhagen. I say think as the brush sound (if that's what it is) is pretty 'unique'. There's a section where you hear a percussion effect like a wet rag being slapped on a hard floor. This same sound can be heard on the track Knockin' A Jug by Louis Armstrong and his Orchestra in 1928. The drummer, Kaiser Marshall, played on both tracks and is definitely playing brushes on Knockin' A Jug: you can hear the sweep.  
                      >
                      > I've experimented with dead-sticking brushes on the drum head, using either hand, and provided a little force is used the sound is remarkably close to the effect Marshall achieved. Not exactly a sensitive performance, and not a style I'd like to emulate, but it does suggest that Marshall was using brushes during part of Copenhagen. Or are my ears deceiving me?  
                      >
                      > Anyway, if anyone knows of earlier performances featuring brushes, I'd love to hear from you.
                      > Gerry
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • silverleafjb
                      Regarding Copenhagen by Fletcher Henderson, there are two takes available for listening, masters 13828 and 13829. On the first take, I hear what sounds like
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 1, 2010
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                        Regarding "Copenhagen" by Fletcher Henderson, there are two takes available for listening, masters 13828 and 13829. On the first take, I hear what sounds like a woodblock being played. On the second, it sounds to me as though someone is clapping on the afterbeats. But I don't think it's a brush.

                        Cheers,
                        Chris Tyle

                        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "kbrau44" <kbrau44@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Gerry, I think it is high time that at least one person reacts on your query. I must admit that I have not yet listened to Copenhagen after reading your message, but I certainly shall do. According to New Grove Dictonary of Jazz brushes seem to have been invented in the early 20s, and I vaguely remember Baby Dodds and Ben Pollack claiming to have invented them (but I may be wrong at that point), but I very often seemed to hear brushes on early recordings when, after repeated listening, I became convinced that it were sticks (single strokes). But I agree whole-heartedly, that Marshall is playing brushes - as well as sticks - on Knockin´ A Jug. You should have a look to Louis Armstrong´s band in Copenhagen 1932 - I mean the film-clips - Oliver Tynes on drums, and you can see him playing brushes, which certainly is different than they are played today (Look them up on Youtube or Dailymotion or on Yazoo´s Jazz Band Ball). But I would suggest that you listen to J.R.Morton Trio with Bigard and Singleton, and then sort out what Zutty is playing where. And then we meet again on these sides here. Okeh? Best K-B
                        >
                        > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Gerry Paton <gerry.paton@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi all. I'm new here.  The last few years I've taken up drumming and have a question for you:
                        > > Can anyone name the first ever recording featuring drums played using brushes?  
                        > >
                        > > I think the earliest recording I've come across so far is the Fletcher Henderson recording Copenhagen. I say think as the brush sound (if that's what it is) is pretty 'unique'. There's a section where you hear a percussion effect like a wet rag being slapped on a hard floor. This same sound can be heard on the track Knockin' A Jug by Louis Armstrong and his Orchestra in 1928. The drummer, Kaiser Marshall, played on both tracks and is definitely playing brushes on Knockin' A Jug: you can hear the sweep.  
                        > >
                        > > I've experimented with dead-sticking brushes on the drum head, using either hand, and provided a little force is used the sound is remarkably close to the effect Marshall achieved. Not exactly a sensitive performance, and not a style I'd like to emulate, but it does suggest that Marshall was using brushes during part of Copenhagen. Or are my ears deceiving me?  
                        > >
                        > > Anyway, if anyone knows of earlier performances featuring brushes, I'd love to hear from you.
                        > > Gerry
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                      • Howard Rye
                        It all depends on whatever arbitrary definition of the dividing line between ragtime and jazz you choose to adopt. There are plenty of drum solos on
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 2, 2010
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                          It all depends on whatever arbitrary definition of the dividing line between
                          ragtime and jazz you choose to adopt. There are plenty of drum solos on
                          ³ragtime² records, but jazz enthusiasts who don¹t listen to ragtime and
                          string band records naturally think that something else is ³the first².

                          James I Lent¹s drum solo record ŒThe Ragtime Drummer¹ recorded for several
                          companies in London in 1904 repays listening. Lent was in London with the
                          African-American show ŒIn Dahomey¹, but was apparently not an
                          African-American (ancestry still under investigation but he was reputed
                          white back in New York) so Sudhalter might have rated him if he had heard of
                          him. Many of the records of the Savoy Quartet might as well be drum solos by
                          Alec Williams (who was African-American) so completely does he dominate
                          them.

                          on 02/01/2010 06:15, silverleafjb at silverleafjb@... wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To my knowledge, the first recording of brushes may be "land Of Cotton Blues"
                          > by the Georgians, from Sept. 6, 1923. In Dick Sudhalter's book "Lost Chords"
                          > he suggests this may also be the first drum solo (by Chauncey Morehouse).
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          > Chris Tyle
                          > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                          > Gerry Paton <gerry.paton@...> wrote:
                          >> >
                          >> > Hi all. I'm new here.  The last few years I've taken up drumming and have a
                          >> question for you:
                          >> > Can anyone name the first ever recording featuring drums played using
                          >> brushes?  
                          >> >
                          >> > I think the earliest recording I've come across so far is the Fletcher
                          >> Henderson recording Copenhagen. I say think as the brush sound (if that's
                          >> what it is) is pretty 'unique'. There's a section where you hear a
                          >> percussion effect like a wet rag being slapped on a hard floor. This same
                          >> sound can be heard on the track Knockin' A Jug by Louis Armstrong and his
                          >> Orchestra in 1928. The drummer, Kaiser Marshall, played on both tracks and
                          >> is definitely playing brushes on Knockin' A Jug: you can hear the sweep.  
                          >> >
                          >> > I've experimented with dead-sticking brushes on the drum head, using either
                          >> hand, and provided a little force is used the sound is remarkably close to
                          >> the effect Marshall achieved. Not exactly a sensitive performance, and not a
                          >> style I'd like to emulate, but it does suggest that Marshall was using
                          >> brushes during part of Copenhagen. Or are my ears deceiving me?  
                          >> >
                          >> > Anyway, if anyone knows of earlier performances featuring brushes, I'd love
                          >> to hear from you.
                          >> > Gerry
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >> >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                          howard@...
                          Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • gerry.paton
                          Wow, thanks so much for all the replies everyone! Apologies for being a little late getting back to you all. Firstly, I ve chanced my mind about Henderson s
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 2, 2010
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                            Wow, thanks so much for all the replies everyone! Apologies for being a little late getting back to you all.

                            Firstly, I've chanced my mind about Henderson's Copenhagen. I agree with you Chris about it either being a hand-clap or wood block. However, I didn't know about "land Of Cotton Blues" so I'll definitely check that out (many thanks!)

                            Since posting my original question I've unearthed a huge amount of info about the history of brushes and have been busy writing it up for an article that will eventually get posted (although I don't know where it will be housed, yet). silverleafjb, I've already checked out ragtime recordings, but couldn't find any evidence of brushes ever having being used. They did use sand-blocks in those days, however, to replicate the rhythms and sound of the 'sand dance'.

                            Re Ralph Berton, yes I recently became aware of his claim. I have no doubt that Vic Berton cobbled together a pair of brushes and was responsible for alerting his "Manufacturing Friend" (almost certainly Ludwig & Ludwig) to the commercial potential of selling brushes, but it seems that brushes were already being use in New York. A case of 'great minds think alike'.

                            Re flyswatters, Ludwig were probably the first to come to market with brushes made specifically for drummers, but their design was based on a 'telescopic fly swatter' and they were taken to court for copyright infringement. Interestingly, the makers of the flyswatter were even marketing their product as a 'drum beater' by the time of the court case (1928).

                            As Ralph Berton mentioned, there was a tradition of playing suitcases with 'whisk-brooms' at jam sessions. As I'm sure many of you are aware, Frank 'Josh' Billings performed with the Mound City Blue Blowers using brooms and case, and film footage exists showing him doing just that. Basically, the whisk broom seems to be where the tradition of using brushes stems from: drummers wishing to replicate the sound looked around for more manageable 'brushes' to use with the drum-kit and stumbled upon using wire-brush fly-swatters. I found an article about Charleston, written in 1907, and the author describes in great detail how the barbers of that area would drum out syncopated ragtime rhythms with a whisk broom when brushing down a customer. Ralph Berton was probably right when he said the idea of using whisk brooms probably came from the 'spasm bands'.

                            Re Cottrell, Zutty Singleton said that "The first pair of brushes I ever had were sent from Chicago by Manuel Perez to Louis 'Old Man' Cotrelle [sic], the drummer from Piron. I studied Cotrelle's work a lot during the early days. But Cotrelle didn't care about brushes, so he gave them to me and those were the first pair of brushes I ever saw in my life. Before that, you had to get your soft effects just by controlling your touch with the sticks." jtdyamond, may I ask where you got the info about Cottrell being horrified by the discolouring that brushes caused? It complies with Singleton's account and I'd love to check the original source.

                            Once again, many thanks for all your input. I now have a few more leads to follow up.
                          • David Weiner
                            In the 1929 Mound City Blue Blowers film shorts, drummer Josh Billings plays hand-held whisk brooms on a suitcase as brushes. Dave Weiner ... Blues ...
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 2, 2010
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                              In the 1929 Mound City Blue Blowers film shorts, drummer Josh Billings plays
                              hand-held whisk brooms on a suitcase as "brushes."

                              Dave Weiner
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To my knowledge, the first recording of brushes may be "land Of Cotton
                              Blues"
                              > by the Georgians, from Sept. 6, 1923. In Dick Sudhalter's book "Lost
                              Chords"
                              > he suggests this may also be the first drum solo (by Chauncey Morehouse).
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              > Chris Tyle
                            • Ron L'Herault
                              I just listened to a nice recording of nothing but drums on an orange label (I think), Emerson 7 disk. I don t know what year the disk is from but it did
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 2, 2010
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                                I just listened to a nice recording of nothing but drums on an orange label
                                (I think), Emerson 7" disk. I don't know what year the disk is from but it
                                did have a c.1918 on it so it had to be 1918 or newer.

                                I play trombone and like using mutes. One leader I play for thinks that
                                they are out of place in early jazz performances. He cites one time on a
                                Dodds record that he has heard a recorded muted bone. I'd love to be able
                                to point out other early/earlier recorded examples of muted trombone are
                                there any?

                                Ron L

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of silverleafjb

                                To my knowledge, the first recording of brushes may be "land Of Cotton
                                Blues" by the Georgians, from Sept. 6, 1923. In Dick Sudhalter's book "Lost
                                Chords" he suggests this may also be the first drum solo (by Chauncey
                                Morehouse).

                                Cheers,
                                Chris Tyle
                              • jtdyamond
                                As I recall it was Cie Frazier who told me, about 1982. Do you know anything about the use of temple blocks or skulls ? jtdyamond
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                                  As I recall it was Cie Frazier who told me, about 1982.

                                  Do you know anything about the use of temple blocks or skulls ?

                                  jtdyamond

                                  --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "gerry.paton" <gerry.paton@...> wrote:
                                  >

                                  > Re Cottrell, Zutty Singleton said that "The first pair of brushes I ever had were sent from Chicago by Manuel Perez to Louis 'Old Man' Cotrelle [sic], the drummer from Piron. I studied Cotrelle's work a lot during the early days. But Cotrelle didn't care about brushes, so he gave them to me and those were the first pair of brushes I ever saw in my life. Before that, you had to get your soft effects just by controlling your touch with the sticks." jtdyamond, may I ask where you got the info about Cottrell being horrified by the discolouring that brushes caused? It complies with Singleton's account and I'd love to check the original source.
                                  >
                                  > Once again, many thanks for all your input. I now have a few more leads to follow up.
                                  >
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