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Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: Fats Waller 1941 touring band? (and a question)

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  • yves francois
    Hans Lonnie Simmons was in the 1938 band Franz Jackson and Al Washington I do not know what years, I pretty much know not 1941 by the data provided here, but
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 17, 2009
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      Hans
      Lonnie Simmons was in the 1938 band
      Franz Jackson and Al Washington I do not know what years, I pretty much know not 1941 by the data provided here, but more data may prove otherwise, all spoke highly re Fats (may of been 1940, and none at the same time). It seems that Bob Carroll was Fat's favorite to use in 1940/1 along with Sedric.
         The NE USA tour w Butler and Coleman was with the augmented Rhythm (Coleman speaks of how Butler and he did manage some trumpet solos out of the leader of the brass Bugs Hamilton), mention was made in Coleman's book that there were at least 2 different occasions re these tours in "trumpet story", I do not have the Waller book, thanks for the data, Hans does it mention what years Jackson and Washington toured with Fats?
      --- On Mon, 8/17/09, hans.eekhoff <oriole@...> wrote:


      From: hans.eekhoff <oriole@...>
      Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Fats Waller 1941 touring band?
      To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:29 AM


       



      According to "Fats In Fact", for a few months prior to July 1942 (not 1940/41) the augmented band played theater engagements "in the small towns of New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut and New Jersey".
      This band indeed included Bill Coleman and Jaques Butler, but also Bugs Hamilton who was "leader of the trumpet section".
      Bob Carroll is mentioned on tenor sax and Herb Flemming on trombone but no mention is made of Franz Jackson, Lonnie Simmons or Al Washington.
      The band included the other members of the "Rhythm" as well.
      Hans Eekhoff

      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com, yves francois <aprestitine@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Warren     I do know that in New England around 1940/41 Fats Waller used an augmented band with two much better trumpets than Bugs
      Hamilton could ever hope to be - Jacques Butler and Bill Coleman. Franz Jackson, Lonnie Simmons  and Al Washington all told me of touring with Fats, wish you asked me this 15 or 20 years ago, they were all alive then (and all three actually enjoyed talking about it, will check w Franz's daughter if he wrote anything). Simmons was in 1938 (even recorded a solo on "Scronch"). Franz and Al were in later outfits, but not the one Bill and Jacques was in (as per Bill's memories on his book), sorry I have no further data, but see if anything shows up, I certainly will look some more.   Checking the discography, Fats was in NYC in May 1941, and recorded with a 13 piece big band in Hollywood in July 1 1941 data follows:John Hamilton, Bob Williams, Herman Autrey on trumpets, George Wilson and Ray Hogan trombones, Dave McRae and
      > Jimmy Powell altos, Gene sedric and Bob Carroll tenors, Fats on piano/vocals, Al casey guitar, Cedric Wallace
      bass and yes, Slick Jones on drums.    It would seem logical to me since these are local 802 (NYC) musicians in 1941 that this was the touring band that was both going west in May 1941 and playing in August 1 1941 in whatever city your ticket was from (it would make sense to use the musicians to go back home to NYC, since most of those musicians were working in NYC a few months later).  Now a query: does anyone know if there are there any broadcasts of Fats with these mid sized "augmented" rhythm or the big band, the few mid and large band records seems to inspire Fats to considerably better music, but then I would say having a couple more horns and somewhat better songs may of made the mundanity of recording the same formula over and over agin a little less tedious - I would love to hear a Butler, a Coleman, a Carroll or a Jackson playing
      > with Fats - I happen to like Sedric a lot, but it would be nice to hear some fresh
      talent w Fats ...Yves Francois
    • hans.eekhoff
      According to Fats in Fact Franz Jackson toured with Fats big band on a coast-to-coast tour from May 1940, which lasted until early July. In the book are a
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 17, 2009
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        According to "Fats in Fact" Franz Jackson toured with Fats' big band on a "coast-to-coast" tour from May 1940, which lasted until early July. In the book are a few pictures of the band on tour - one includes Jackson.
        Al Washington toured with Fats (who had taken over Charlie Turner's Arcadians) on-and-off from Sept. 1935 until late 1937.
        Hans Eekhoff


        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, yves francois <aprestitine@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hans
        > Lonnie Simmons was in the 1938 band
        > Franz Jackson and Al Washington I do not know what years, I pretty much know not 1941 by the data provided here, but more data may prove otherwise, all spoke highly re Fats (may of been 1940, and none at the same time). It seems that Bob Carroll was Fat's favorite to use in 1940/1 along with Sedric.
        >    The NE USA tour w Butler and Coleman was with the augmented Rhythm (Coleman speaks of how Butler and he did manage some trumpet solos out of the leader of the brass Bugs Hamilton), mention was made in Coleman's book that there were at least 2 different occasions re these tours in "trumpet story", I do not have the Waller book, thanks for the data, Hans does it mention what years Jackson and Washington toured with Fats?
        > --- On Mon, 8/17/09, hans.eekhoff <oriole@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: hans.eekhoff <oriole@...>
        > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Fats Waller 1941 touring band?
        > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:29 AM
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > According to "Fats In Fact", for a few months prior to July 1942 (not 1940/41) the augmented band played theater engagements "in the small towns of New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut and New Jersey".
        > This band indeed included Bill Coleman and Jaques Butler, but also Bugs Hamilton who was "leader of the trumpet section".
        > Bob Carroll is mentioned on tenor sax and Herb Flemming on trombone but no mention is made of Franz Jackson, Lonnie Simmons or Al Washington.
        > The band included the other members of the "Rhythm" as well.
        > Hans Eekhoff
        >
        > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com, yves francois <aprestitine@ ...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Warren     I do know that in New England around 1940/41 Fats Waller used an augmented band with two much better trumpets than Bugs
        > Hamilton could ever hope to be - Jacques Butler and Bill Coleman. Franz Jackson, Lonnie Simmons  and Al Washington all told me of touring with Fats, wish you asked me this 15 or 20 years ago, they were all alive then (and all three actually enjoyed talking about it, will check w Franz's daughter if he wrote anything). Simmons was in 1938 (even recorded a solo on "Scronch"). Franz and Al were in later outfits, but not the one Bill and Jacques was in (as per Bill's memories on his book), sorry I have no further data, but see if anything shows up, I certainly will look some more.   Checking the discography, Fats was in NYC in May 1941, and recorded with a 13 piece big band in Hollywood in July 1 1941 data follows:John Hamilton, Bob Williams, Herman Autrey on trumpets, George Wilson and Ray Hogan trombones, Dave McRae and
        > > Jimmy Powell altos, Gene sedric and Bob Carroll tenors, Fats on piano/vocals, Al casey guitar, Cedric Wallace
        > bass and yes, Slick Jones on drums.    It would seem logical to me since these are local 802 (NYC) musicians in 1941 that this was the touring band that was both going west in May 1941 and playing in August 1 1941 in whatever city your ticket was from (it would make sense to use the musicians to go back home to NYC, since most of those musicians were working in NYC a few months later).  Now a query: does anyone know if there are there any broadcasts of Fats with these mid sized "augmented" rhythm or the big band, the few mid and large band records seems to inspire Fats to considerably better music, but then I would say having a couple more horns and somewhat better songs may of made the mundanity of recording the same formula over and over agin a little less tedious - I would love to hear a Butler, a Coleman, a Carroll or a Jackson playing
        > > with Fats - I happen to like Sedric a lot, but it would be nice to hear some fresh
        > talent w Fats ...Yves Francois
        >
      • Agustin Perez Gasco
        Dear list   Chris Albertson s new blog, Stomp Off, Let s Go... , has a lot of material that could be of interest to the members of this list. His last post
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 19, 2009
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          Dear list
           
          Chris Albertson's new blog, "Stomp Off, Let's Go...", has a lot of material that could be of interest to the members of this list. His last post includes Lil Hardin's remembrances of the New Orleans Creole Jazz Band:
           
          http://stomp-off.blogspot.com/
           
          Best regards,
          Agustín Pérez
          Madrid
          ------------------------------------------------
          Mule Walk & Jazz Talk:  http://thereisjazzbeforetrane.blogspot.com/




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael Rader
          Agustin, Very interesting and three articles on Lil, although none addresses the question of her ability to swing ;-). Albertson s book recommendations are
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 19, 2009
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            Agustin,

            Very interesting and three articles on Lil, although none addresses the question of her ability to swing ;-). Albertson's book recommendations are also quite interesting. One to watch...

            Michael Rader
            >
            > Chris Albertson's new blog, "Stomp Off, Let's Go...", has a lot of
            > material that could be of interest to the members of this list. His
            > last post includes Lil Hardin's remembrances of the New Orleans
            > Creole Jazz Band:
            >
            > http://stomp-off.blogspot.com/
            >
            > Best regards,
            > Agustín Pérez

            ________________________________________________________________
            Neu: WEB.DE Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
            für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
          • Michael Rader
            ... Michael Rader
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 19, 2009
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              Also well worth reading is Agustin's own blog:
              > ------------------------------------------------
              > Mule Walk & Jazz Talk:  http://thereisjazzbeforetrane.blogspot.com/


              Michael Rader
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