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RE: [RedHotJazz] The return of Flo was: Re: Arnett Nelson

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  • David Brown
    My belief that this is Arville rests on comparison of three solos Red Hot Flo , Leroy Tibbs One O clock Blues and Waller Harlem Fuss in which I find near
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 3, 2009
      My belief that this is Arville rests on comparison of three solos 'Red Hot
      Flo', Leroy Tibbs 'One O'clock Blues' and Waller 'Harlem Fuss' in which I
      find near identical phrasing and sound.

      I will ship MP3 extracts to anybody interested.

      Dave






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    • Michael Rader
      Following Chris Hillman s proposal that the clarinet on Red Hot Flo was Clifford King, I checked my copy of Rust, which only gives him for several sessions
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 3, 2009
        Following Chris Hillman's proposal that the clarinet on "Red Hot Flo" was Clifford King, I checked my copy of Rust, which only gives him for several sessions by Doc Cook(e) and a period with Eddie South. The Cookes mainly have Jimmie Noone as clarinet soloist and the Souths are mainly "ethnically" oriented with little opportunity for clarinet solos. From what little there is, I would say that King is a possibility on "Flo", but remain unconvinced.

        So, is there any more work by Mr. King on record?

        Michael Rader
      • yves francois
        Michael et all   Glad to see this come up again, I like Red Hot Flo, and hope you are having a good day.  Clifford Clarinet King was a consideration of
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 4, 2009
          Michael et all   Glad to see this come up again, I like Red Hot Flo, and hope you are having a good day.
           Clifford "Clarinet" King was a consideration of mine, but I did not even think to voice an opinion, I thought he was always based in Chicago 9and made it to Europe w South). He does solo a little hot jazz clarinet in the South's sessions from 1931 (I decided to give the times so you can pinpoint the moments of jazz solos) "Marcheta" than "Hejre Kati" 78 (Victor 22847, his work on "Hijre Kati" is "straight"), and more titles on the Eddie South CD "Black Gypsy" (play "Marcheta" 1.46 in track #13 on the Black Gypsy CD), very good clarinet solo, also check "Mama yo Quiero Una Novina" (track #16) 2.20 in (titles rec 1931 in Chicago), 1933 he recorded 3 jazzier titles with South, only "Nagasaki" (on the CD 1.04 in for 8 bars) shows a clarinet in the NOLA style lower register, there is almost no blowing room for King on this date, too bad, one has to get his best work playing ethnic songs. BTW King plays bass clarinet on the 1929 titles recorded in
          Europe.    Now the question arises, did King spend time in NYC in the spring of 1927, I thought he was with Cook at the time. I am OK with Harris being Flo, since there are similarities to the solos, and can live with the fact that maybe he declined badly as the bootleg booze took him away from inspiration, still " ... Flo" would be his best example of his playing, if it were he. King, on the other hand, was a terrific player, like Jejo, and closer to the NOLA playing than Mr Jejo . Again, recording jazz for jazz sake was NOT the norm of the day, and that's too bad, isn't it (but then major labels rarely care for jazz for jazz's sake)?   Happy birthday to Louis BTW ...Yves Francois

          --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:

          From: Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...>
          Subject: [RedHotJazz] The return of Flo was: Re: Arnett Nelson
          To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 1:38 AM













           





          Following Chris Hillman's proposal that the clarinet on "Red Hot Flo" was Clifford King, I checked my copy of Rust, which only gives him for several sessions by Doc Cook(e) and a period with Eddie South. The Cookes mainly have Jimmie Noone as clarinet soloist and the Souths are mainly "ethnically" oriented with little opportunity for clarinet solos. From what little there is, I would say that King is a possibility on "Flo", but remain unconvinced.



          So, is there any more work by Mr. King on record?



          Michael Rader















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        • Michael Rader
          Hello Yves and indeed happy remembrances of Louis, I think I listened to the samples you mention (maybe with one exception)and was slightly frustrated by the
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 4, 2009
            Hello Yves and indeed happy remembrances of Louis,

            I think I listened to the samples you mention (maybe with one exception)and was slightly frustrated by the lack of solos. However Chris Hillman hints there might be more, probably, judging by Rust, not previously identified as King.

            I also see that King is listed for the South Cheloni broadcasts. Has anyone who has them ever listened closely to King?

            Michael Rader
          • David Brown
            Hello Yves Nice to have you back. You know I am convinced on Arville but agree his varying standards. His playing of almost the identical solo is far better on
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 5, 2009
              Hello Yves

              Nice to have you back. You know I am convinced on Arville but agree his
              varying standards. His playing of almost the identical solo is far better on
              the Waller than on the Tibbs and he is even better on 'Flo'.

              Just plumbed the Souths and there is very little clarinet here to go on but
              what I hear is much farer from 'Flo' than Arville. A much straighter player
              who in obligato on 'No More Blues' and elsewhere in ensemble sounds much
              nearer to Noone than to Dodds which is, if King, not surprising as he sat
              next to Noone with Doc Cook. The only solo I can find 'Marcheta' also
              seems to me to be an essay at Noone. But caution, I only have King as
              possible/probable here. I hear no clarinet on 'Nagasaki'.

              Also what would put King in NYC for 'Flo' ?

              Also Clarence had his own stable of musicians, including Arville, to whom he
              was loyal. Why would he import a foreigner ?

              Dave





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