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NEW ORLEANS CLARINET STYLE

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  • fraser mccombe
    David Brown asked about Andrew Morgan s later recordings.there are quite a few. In 1949 he recorded with Herb Morand, AMCD-9 then in 1958 with the Young Tuxedo
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 10, 2009
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      David Brown asked about Andrew Morgan's later recordings.there are quite a few.

      In 1949 he recorded with Herb Morand, AMCD-9 then in 1958 with the Young Tuxedo Brass band, Mosaic. 1962 'Sam Morgan revisited' on AMCD-58. Probably my favourites are the ones with @sweet' Emma in 1960 504 CD 67 and the 1967 with Louis James, the latter recently re-issued on 504/la croix.

      There is a GHB BCD-369 with the Louisiana Shakers of Genova, recorded 1969,backed by Barry Martyn. was that the year he toured the Uk with Barry Martyn? I remember seeing him play at Accrington Stanley ( the football club's social club,that is) I also seem to recall an LP on Dixie with Barry's band.

      Probably the last was on Jazz crusade when he was with Bill Bissonette, in 1970.

      Re Harry Shields, I haven't many recordings of him. I took a dislike to his playing in the mid sixties when i heard him with Kid Thomas at Presevation Hall. The other musicians referred to him as the 'Flying goose', a criticism of his playing,I fear.I think i might have one Lp with him on but haven't heard it for years,i will look it out and see if time has changed my opinion.I seem to recall it was a promotional LP for louisiana, called 'The Right to profit state and all that Jazz'


      Fraser McCombe
      fraser.mccombe@...

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Brown
      Thanks to everybody for the Morgan details. I have found a Footnote of Feb/March 1986 with much on the Baquets, George and Achille, including an interview
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 11, 2009
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        Thanks to everybody for the Morgan details.

        I have found a 'Footnote' of Feb/March 1986 with much on the Baquets, George
        and Achille, including an interview with the former.

        Too much for even me to overquote but to excerpt :-

        A band battle between Bolden and Robichaux --

        'At first the Frenchmen with their elegant music seemed doomed. Then Baquet
        rose from the Robichaux ranks and went though a stunt routine of throwing
        away parts of his clarinet, while he continued to play as if it were still
        there. He ended up with the mouthpiece and the audience gave him a terrific
        hand winning the cutting contest for Robichaux. Bolden was furious "George
        why did you do it ?"

        This rather undermines the picture we have of Creoles as sombre and serious,
        non-freak players.

        Also interview here with Natty 'if you hear Barney Bigard you hear George
        Baquet with tone' and Louis James ' Big Eye Louis was a wonderful
        clarinettist ; he had a style of his own. Baquet played high but not as high
        as Nelson.'

        Also, Gilbert, a transcription of Baquet's notes for the 'lecture' you just
        mentioned which he gave to New Orleans Jazz Club on 17 April 1948 which ends
        with sincere thanks to -- Mr Gilbert Erskine.

        How did he ever get put on the Bessie session of 15 October 1923 ? That is
        not Baquet nor any N.O. player. The Evelyn Thompson and Clara Smith sides I
        have not checked but wonder what he was doing in N.Y.C. as he lived in
        Philadelphia from 1923 till his death in 1949. But his playing on the
        Mortons is superb.
























        [Unknown]













        -----Original Message-----
        From: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com]On
        Behalf Of fraser mccombe
        Sent: Dienstag, 10. Februar 2009 21:33
        To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [RedHotJazz] NEW ORLEANS CLARINET STYLE



        David Brown asked about Andrew Morgan's later recordings.there are quite a
        few.

        In 1949 he recorded with Herb Morand, AMCD-9 then in 1958 with the Young
        Tuxedo Brass band, Mosaic. 1962 'Sam Morgan revisited' on AMCD-58. Probably
        my favourites are the ones with @sweet' Emma in 1960 504 CD 67 and the 1967
        with Louis James, the latter recently re-issued on 504/la croix.

        There is a GHB BCD-369 with the Louisiana Shakers of Genova, recorded
        1969,backed by Barry Martyn. was that the year he toured the Uk with Barry
        Martyn? I remember seeing him play at Accrington Stanley ( the football
        club's social club,that is) I also seem to recall an LP on Dixie with
        Barry's band.

        Probably the last was on Jazz crusade when he was with Bill Bissonette, in
        1970.

        Re Harry Shields, I haven't many recordings of him. I took a dislike to
        his playing in the mid sixties when i heard him with Kid Thomas at
        Presevation Hall. The other musicians referred to him as the 'Flying goose',
        a criticism of his playing,I fear.I think i might have one Lp with him on
        but haven't heard it for years,i will look it out and see if time has
        changed my opinion.I seem to recall it was a promotional LP for louisiana,
        called 'The Right to profit state and all that Jazz'

        Fraser McCombe
        fraser.mccombe@...

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Howard Rye
        This sent me rushing to the books. Edward Brooks in the Bessie Smith Companion rejects Baquet and firmly blames Brian Rust for naming him. Early sources have
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 11, 2009
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          This sent me rushing to the books. Edward Brooks in the Bessie Smith
          Companion rejects Baquet and firmly blames Brian Rust for naming him. Early
          sources have Don Redman or George Baquet. Current ones Ernest Elliott or
          George Baquet.

          The simple answer is that his name is carried forward from the unissued
          session of 27 September 1923 to the remake. This only puts the question one
          stage back. He is definitely not named on the file card. Rust¹s certainty
          about his presence is likely to be based on something somebody once said but
          whether we can now establish who and when, well, any offers?

          There are no names on the file card for the 17 January 1929 Clara Smith
          session either. Tom Lord (the bio-discographer of Clarence Williams, not the
          Canadian encyclopedist) rejecting early suggestions that Williams is the
          pianist, notes that George Baquet, Ben Whittet, Bob Fuller, and Ernest
          Elliott have all been suggested as possibles for the clarinet duet. He adds
          Emerson Harper as a suggestion apparently on the grounds that Harper told
          Dave Goldenburg in 1974 that he took part in a Clara Smith session with
          Porter Grainger, whom Lord thinks is the pianist here. This is a wonderful
          record but I doubt we will ever have more than guesses who the players are
          and I¹m certainly not going to add to them. One of them has a gloriously
          woody chalumeau register.

          Evelyn Thompson is the married name of the singer better known as Evelyn
          Preer. Baquet and the other impressive names once attached to Vocalion 15548
          have been dropped from the latest editions of Rust and let us wave them
          goodbye without regret. [James P.] ³Johnson¹s presence is very doubtful²,
          says Robert Hilbert in his Johnson discography. You¹re telling me! This is
          an intriguing record but it doesn¹t need or deserve these fantasies. It¹s on
          ŒToo Late, Too Late, Vol.9¹ (Document DODC5590). This also includes Preer¹s
          1926 ŒBirth Of The Blues¹, once a soughtafter item for English junkshoppers
          in the Imperial version credited to Radio Red.


          on 11/02/2009 10:58, David Brown at johnhaleysims@... wrote:

          >
          >
          >
          >
          > How did he ever get put on the Bessie session of 15 October 1923 ? That is
          > not Baquet nor any N.O. player. The Evelyn Thompson and Clara Smith sides I
          > have not checked but wonder what he was doing in N.Y.C. as he lived in
          > Philadelphia from 1923 till his death in 1949. But his playing on the
          > Mortons is superb.
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Brown
          Thanks Howard for the, as ever, definitive discographical overview. The Clara clarinet duo sound very similar to the Fuller/Elliot of the Bessies 5 months
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 12, 2009
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            Thanks Howard for the, as ever, definitive discographical overview.

            The Clara clarinet duo sound very similar to the Fuller/Elliot of the
            Bessies 5 months earlier.

            Yes, Sticky would also be a candidate for the 1923 Bessies. It's not Redman
            who is, reputedly, on adjacent sides.

            Can anyone find exposed bona fide Sticky from this period --- or any period
            ?

            I have been listening to Achille, apparently always known as Joe, on his
            only sides, Original N.O. Jazz Band 1918 & 1919. ( I do not hear him on the
            Durantes ) He was yet another brother who failed in brotherly emulation.

            'Cause Baquet ( Achille) he went round saying his brother couldn't play a
            clarinet as good as he could. And I told the people different. I say he'll
            never be the clarinet player that George Baquet was. Course he was a nice
            little clarinet player but not like his brother George and George Baquet
            taught his brother.'

            -- Natty Dominique interview with Bill Russell.

            Achille plays in staccato Shields style, albeit a bit smoother, less edgy.
            No Creole fluidity here. We heard from Pops that Achille 'passed' and played
            in the same band as Shields. Achille was 8 years older than Shields and one
            speculates that the younger man would more likely have been influenced by
            the older than vice versa.

            The Footnote article has Achille 15 November 1885 and not 1886 as in
            Chilton.





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Howard Rye
            I¹m sure we¹ve discussed the Baquet¹s before on this list. 1885 is the birth year on Achille¹s draft card. I think we can take it as correct. ... [Non-text
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 12, 2009
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              I¹m sure we¹ve discussed the Baquet¹s before on this list. 1885 is the birth
              year on Achille¹s draft card. I think we can take it as correct.


              on 12/02/2009 10:19, David Brown at johnhaleysims@... wrote:

              >
              >
              >
              > Thanks Howard for the, as ever, definitive discographical overview.
              >
              > The Clara clarinet duo sound very similar to the Fuller/Elliot of the
              > Bessies 5 months earlier.
              >
              > Yes, Sticky would also be a candidate for the 1923 Bessies. It's not Redman
              > who is, reputedly, on adjacent sides.
              >
              > Can anyone find exposed bona fide Sticky from this period --- or any period
              > ?
              >
              > I have been listening to Achille, apparently always known as Joe, on his
              > only sides, Original N.O. Jazz Band 1918 & 1919. ( I do not hear him on the
              > Durantes ) He was yet another brother who failed in brotherly emulation.
              >
              > 'Cause Baquet ( Achille) he went round saying his brother couldn't play a
              > clarinet as good as he could. And I told the people different. I say he'll
              > never be the clarinet player that George Baquet was. Course he was a nice
              > little clarinet player but not like his brother George and George Baquet
              > taught his brother.'
              >
              > -- Natty Dominique interview with Bill Russell.
              >
              > Achille plays in staccato Shields style, albeit a bit smoother, less edgy.
              > No Creole fluidity here. We heard from Pops that Achille 'passed' and played
              > in the same band as Shields. Achille was 8 years older than Shields and one
              > speculates that the younger man would more likely have been influenced by
              > the older than vice versa.
              >
              > The Footnote article has Achille 15 November 1885 and not 1886 as in
              > Chilton.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >>
              >
              >
              > Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
              > howard@...
              > Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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