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Re: Willie Joseph Johnny Dodds and the Klezmer Sound

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  • Tommer
    ... Naughty ... and ... important ... I don¹t ... Ashkenazi or ... had ... immigrating to ... but it ... ODJB ... needed ... Shields ... In his book
    Message 1 of 48 , Feb 4, 2009
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      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > We have been discussing Klezmer in jazz (I apologize for misspelling
      > it as Klezmar) in the Bix forum. Early examples are "Blues My
      Naughty
      > Sweetie Gives to Me" (Sep 5, 1919, Columbia A-2798) by Ted Lewis,
      and
      > "Palesteena" (Dec 4, 1920, Vic 18717) by the ODJB.
      >
      > Albert
      >
      > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Howard Rye <howard@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I have long been convinced that klezmer plays a much more
      important
      > part in
      > > the ancestry of jazz than it has been given credit for. However,
      I don¹t
      > > think we need concern ourselves with the distribution of Hebrew
      > communities.
      > > If we did need to, we would need to know whether they were
      Ashkenazi or
      > > Sephardic also.
      > >
      > > However, I don¹t believe we do. The klezmer does not come from
      > overhearing
      > > Ashkenazi weddings and bar mitzvahs. It comes via the vaudeville
      > stage from
      > > some Jewish novelty act or from musicians who like Harry Raderman
      had
      > > actually played in klezmer bands in Eastern Europe before
      immigrating to
      > > America.
      > >
      > > This is of course only a hypothesis. No one has done the research
      but it
      > > might be fruitful if anyone is looking for a subject fior a
      > dissertation.
      > >
      > >
      > > on 04/02/2009 10:00, David Brown at johnhaleysims@ wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hello Albert
      > > >
      > > > Yes, I hear what you mean but I think we have to put it down to
      > coincidence
      > > > for I assume there was no substantial Jewish community in N.O.
      > > >
      > > > Dodds on 'High Society' is essaying, rather approximately, the
      > standard
      > > > Picou solo transcribed from the piccolo part.
      > > >
      > > > Jazz and Kletzmer cross with Ted Lewis and it has also been
      > suggested as yet
      > > > another influence on Goodman and even Artie Shaw. But Lewis was
      > influenced
      > > > primarily by the raucous novelty style of Shields, to whom, yet
      > again, we
      > > > return.
      > > >
      > > > I have concluded that his influence was large and, due to his
      ODJB
      > context
      > > > and race, underrated.
      > > >
      > > > We are still left with where he got this shrill novelty style. I
      > have on
      > > > behind me now Nunez who was born in 1884 and, although care is
      needed
      > > > because these sides postdate ODJB, it is probable that Nunez was
      > playing in
      > > > this style earlier and that, as his replacement with ODJB,
      Shields
      > also
      > > > assumed his style.
      > > >
      > > > I also speculate that Dodds unique style also drew on these
      > elements. One
      > > > can further ask whether Nunez represents a form of the posited
      > 'black blues
      > > > Uptown' clarinet.
      > > >
      > > > Dave
      > > >

      In his book "Contemporary Israeli Music" p.37 Zvi Keren claims that
      Gershwin's "Raphsody In Blue" has a mode that comes from "Synagogue
      Mode For The Inauguration of the Sabbath" a traditional central and
      eastern European Jewish. He generally believe something like that the
      Blues scale existed in that. He also attached tabs to that and
      Gershwin's. I don't much get his point, maybe it is a matter of
      reading the tabs which is too abstract for me, and I am not sure
      about what prayer exactly he mean. I can scan the tabs.

      But what I think is that there was a community of Jews in New
      Orleans, that were part of the meltin pot, and maybe they were more
      accessible to blacks and creoles (for instance, Louis Armstrong had
      Jewish friends since childhood), so it is possible I believe that
      Dodds and/or other New Orleans musicians were aware of Jewish
      weddings and bar mitzvas music, and used it like other melodies they
      were using.

      Tommer
    • levi.marco@libero.it
      ... From : RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com To : RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com Cc : Date : Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:12:21 +0000 (GMT) Subject : Re
      Message 48 of 48 , Mar 2, 2009
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        From : RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        To : RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        Cc :
        Date : Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:12:21 +0000 (GMT)
        Subject : Re : [RedHotJazz] Re: Willie Joseph Johnny Dodds and the Klezmer Sound


        Hello Mr. Litwak. Could I get out of you the mp3 featuring "Veseliy Kazak" played by N. Brandwein? I'm just discovering the connection between Jazz and Klezmer, through the Woody Allen's clarinet. Thank you very much. Marco Levi
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