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Authentic washboard band, Argentinian jazz from 1926

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  • Mordechai Litzman
    Came across an excellent recording of Washboard Cut Out by Bobbie Leecan s Need More Band that I would like to share with the group - this recording is new to
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 18, 2008
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      Came across an excellent recording of Washboard Cut Out by Bobbie Leecan's Need More Band that I would like to share with the group - this recording is new to me. Not recorded in the the deep South but in New York City in 1927. 241
      This recording is courtesy of an Austrian collector.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YjYm6JFpHY

      BTW, many times I came across 1920's jazz recordings from Argentina on the RHJA, but usually they are only listed but not available to listen to. Among some eighty 78's that this collector put on YouTube I found this Argentinian 1926 recording of La Mantilla Espanola, which is quite good. (If you click on the link you will find out the English name of this tune!)
      502


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9iyK9xnnI





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Prof_Hi_Jinx
      Leecan was born & bred in Philly, but does anyone have any ideas about his buddy, Robert Cooksey? We know he was around Philly and NYC, but was he *from*
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 18, 2008
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        Leecan was born & bred in Philly, but does anyone have any ideas about his buddy, Robert Cooksey?

        We know he was around Philly and NYC, but was he *from* there? Thanks

        Bob


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Mordechai Litzman
        To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:19 PM
        Subject: [RedHotJazz] Authentic washboard band, Argentinian jazz from 1926


        Came across an excellent recording of Washboard Cut Out by Bobbie Leecan's Need More Band that I would like to share with the group - this recording is new to me. Not recorded in the the deep South but in New York City in 1927. 241
        This recording is courtesy of an Austrian collector.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YjYm6JFpHY

        BTW, many times I came across 1920's jazz recordings from Argentina on the RHJA, but usually they are only listed but not available to listen to. Among some eighty 78's that this collector put on YouTube I found this Argentinian 1926 recording of La Mantilla Espanola, which is quite good. (If you click on the link you will find out the English name of this tune!)
        502

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9iyK9xnnI

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Howard Rye
        [Sorry Howard, I didn t want to shortcut your message but for some reason it had landed in the spam area - Patrice] All of Leecan and Cooksey including the
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 19, 2008
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          [Sorry Howard, I didn't want to shortcut your message but for some reason it had landed in the "spam" area - Patrice]

          All of Leecan and Cooksey including the wonderful Dixie Jazzers Washboard
          Band is on Document DOCD5279/80.

          I¹m sure Bob will have picked this up already but according to a piece in
          the New York Times of 23 February 1926, Cooksey was then 32.


          on 19/12/2008 06:19, Bob Eagle at prof_hi_jinx@... wrote:

          >
          >
          >
          > Leecan was born & bred in Philly, but does anyone have any ideas about his
          > buddy, Robert Cooksey?
          >
          > We know he was around Philly and NYC, but was he *from* there? Thanks
          >
          > Bob
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Mordechai Litzman
          > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:19 PM
          > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Authentic washboard band, Argentinian jazz from 1926
          >
          > Came across an excellent recording of Washboard Cut Out by Bobbie Leecan's
          > Need More Band that I would like to share with the group - this recording is
          > new to me. Not recorded in the the deep South but in New York City in 1927.
          > 241
          > This recording is courtesy of an Austrian collector.
          >
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YjYm6JFpHY
          >
          > BTW, many times I came across 1920's jazz recordings from Argentina on the
          > RHJA, but usually they are only listed but not available to listen to. Among
          > some eighty 78's that this collector put on YouTube I found this Argentinian
          > 1926 recording of La Mantilla Espanola, which is quite good. (If you click on
          > the link you will find out the English name of this tune!)
          > 502
          >
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9iyK9xnnI
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
          howard@...
          Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Patrice Champarou
          ... From: Prof_Hi_Jinx ... The liner notes to Document DOCD 5279 by John Wilby say : An article from the February 23, 1926 edition of the New York Times
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 19, 2008
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Prof_Hi_Jinx"

            > Leecan was born & bred in Philly, but does anyone have any ideas about his
            > buddy, Robert Cooksey?

            The liner notes to Document DOCD 5279 by John Wilby say :
            "An article from the February 23, 1926 edition of the New York Times
            discovered by Sherwin Dunner describes Cooksey as 31 years old at the time.
            This would indicate a birthdate sometime in 1894. His birthpace remains
            unknown, though as we will see the tune titles on this and the companion
            volume (DOCD-5280) gives us many clues as to Cooksey's and Leecan's
            origins".

            The next volume explains, at a time Leecan's birthpace was probably unknown,
            that some of Leecan's titles and lyrics contained several allusions to
            Georgia and the Macon area (because of Macon Georgia Cut Out I guess, thus
            not applying to Cooksey... and what he made of Memphis Shake, Kansas City
            Shuffle, and Dallas Blues, I have no idea ;-)

            BTW, the excellent Wash-board Cut Out is on the "companion" volume, DOCD
            5280, and the single track is also available as a download on various sites.
            For a better sound quality, maybe the (mostly blues, with a bit of pre-war
            country music and a touch of Gospel ) compilation Times Ain't What They Used
            To Be vol. 2 (Yazoo 2029) could also be recommeded.
            No futher details I could find on any other disk or book.

            Patrice
          • Luis
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 19, 2008
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              <BTW, many times I came across 1920's jazz recordings from Argentina on the
              RHJA, but usually they are only listed but not available to listen to. Among
              some eighty 78's that this collector put on YouTube I found this
              Argentinian>
              <1926 recording of La Mantilla Espanola, which is quite good. (If you click
              on the link you will find out the English name of this tune!)>

              <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9iyK9xnnI>
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9iyK9xnnI



              The Odeon disc shown in Youtube and mentioned in this message, is by
              Francisco Canaro. Canaro was one of the most popular tango orchestra from
              the 20's to his death in the 60's. He has a prolific discography but most of
              them are tangos. He also recorded fox-trots as "Francisco Canaro Jazz Band".
              As was usual in those years, many tango orchestras recorded foxtrots and
              popular jazz titles.



              The info posted in RHJA about argentine jazz bands was posted by me some
              years ago. I have most of these records (copies of 78's) and some of them
              are very interesting.



              Luis



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Albert Haim
              Hola Luis, Indeed, there were some good jazz bands in Argentina in the 1920s. If you go to http://bixography.com/wbix1to50.html scroll down to program # 26 and
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 20, 2008
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                Hola Luis,

                Indeed, there were some good jazz bands in Argentina in the 1920s. If
                you go to

                http://bixography.com/wbix1to50.html

                scroll down to program # 26 and click on the "streaming audio file"
                link, you will find, at 12 min, two recordings by Adolfo Carabelli. He
                had a successful jazz band in the 1920s in Buenos Aires.

                I realize that it would be a lot of work, but red hot jazz aficionados
                would be extremely grateful to you if you could add audio files to the
                lists of recordings that you already provided.

                Un saludo cordial,

                Albert



                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Luis" <contijoch1@...> wrote:
                >
                > <BTW, many times I came across 1920's jazz recordings from Argentina
                on the
                > RHJA, but usually they are only listed but not available to listen
                to. Among
                > some eighty 78's that this collector put on YouTube I found this
                > Argentinian>
                > <1926 recording of La Mantilla Espanola, which is quite good. (If
                you click
                > on the link you will find out the English name of this tune!)>
                >
                > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9iyK9xnnI>
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9iyK9xnnI
                >
                >
                >
                > The Odeon disc shown in Youtube and mentioned in this message, is by
                > Francisco Canaro. Canaro was one of the most popular tango orchestra
                from
                > the 20's to his death in the 60's. He has a prolific discography but
                most of
                > them are tangos. He also recorded fox-trots as "Francisco Canaro
                Jazz Band".
                > As was usual in those years, many tango orchestras recorded foxtrots and
                > popular jazz titles.
                >
                >
                >
                > The info posted in RHJA about argentine jazz bands was posted by me some
                > years ago. I have most of these records (copies of 78's) and some of
                them
                > are very interesting.
                >
                >
                >
                > Luis
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • David Richoux
                On a somewhat related note - in Brazil from the 1840s through the 1930s there was a very popular style of music called Choro - it was a blend of European
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 20, 2008
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                  On a somewhat related note - in Brazil from the 1840s through the
                  1930s there was a very popular style of music called Choro - it was a
                  blend of European Polkas and other dance songs mixed with African and
                  South American indigenous rhythms. Wind and stringed instruments were
                  played, along with vocals and percussion. North American Ragtime and
                  Jazz influences were added to the mix in the late 1800s and early
                  1900s - Samba eventually became more popular, but there is a major
                  revival of Choro style going on today! (A related style is Forro - a
                  more modern version of Choro.)

                  The word "Choro" is roughly translated as "Cry" and that word has to
                  do with an emphasis on descending note patterns in the melody and
                  improvised solos. Interestingly, (especially for tuba players) the
                  Ophicleide was a major instrument in the bands and there were many
                  famous players of that difficult instrument. The saxophone eventually
                  replaced the Ophicleide in Brazil by the 1930s. The musician known as
                  Pixinguinha is probably the most famous star in the style, but there
                  were many other famous players and band leaders.

                  I have been reading "Choro - A social History of a Brazilian Popular
                  Music" by Tamara Elena Livingston-Isenhour and there are a few
                  websites that cover this style of music - a link:
                  http://keepswinging.blogspot.com/2006/06/more-choro.html and there
                  are more links in the comments section of this blog.

                  David RIchoux

                  On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:36 AM, Albert Haim wrote:

                  > Hola Luis,
                  >
                  > Indeed, there were some good jazz bands in Argentina in the 1920s. If
                  > you go to
                  >
                  > http://bixography.com/wbix1to50.html
                  >
                  > scroll down to program # 26 and click on the "streaming audio file"
                  > link, you will find, at 12 min, two recordings by Adolfo Carabelli. He
                  > had a successful jazz band in the 1920s in Buenos Aires.
                  >
                  > I realize that it would be a lot of work, but red hot jazz aficionados
                  > would be extremely grateful to you if you could add audio files to the
                  > lists of recordings that you already provided.
                  >
                  > Un saludo cordial,
                  >
                  > Albert
                  >
                • David Richoux
                  A bit of a discovery - a free collection of the music of Pixinguinha and other Choro musicians from the early 1900s onwards! (web translation is a bit rough,
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 20, 2008
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                    A bit of a discovery - a free collection of the music of Pixinguinha
                    and other Choro musicians from the early 1900s onwards!
                    (web translation is a bit rough, but you should be able to navigate
                    pretty well.)
                    http://acervos.ims.uol.com.br/php/level.php?lang=pt&component=38&item=37

                    then click on the 4 links to Music Composed, Interpreted, Executed, or
                    composed and interpreted by Pixinguinha.

                    Some of the recordings remind me of early Blues field recording,
                    others are quite polished. If you especially like early string bands,
                    be sure to check this all out - I think you all will find some
                    interesting parallels between early Jazz and Choro.

                    David RIchoux

                    On Dec 20, 2008, at 10:23 AM, David Richoux wrote:

                    > On a somewhat related note - in Brazil from the 1840s through the
                    > 1930s there was a very popular style of music called Choro - it was a
                    > blend of European Polkas and other dance songs mixed with African and
                    > South American indigenous rhythms. Wind and stringed instruments were
                    > played, along with vocals and percussion. North American Ragtime and
                    > Jazz influences were added to the mix in the late 1800s and early
                    > 1900s - Samba eventually became more popular, but there is a major
                    > revival of Choro style going on today! (A related style is Forro - a
                    > more modern version of Choro.)
                    >
                    > The word "Choro" is roughly translated as "Cry" and that word has to
                    > do with an emphasis on descending note patterns in the melody and
                    > improvised solos. Interestingly, (especially for tuba players) the
                    > Ophicleide was a major instrument in the bands and there were many
                    > famous players of that difficult instrument. The saxophone eventually
                    > replaced the Ophicleide in Brazil by the 1930s. The musician known as
                    > Pixinguinha is probably the most famous star in the style, but there
                    > were many other famous players and band leaders.
                    >
                    > I have been reading "Choro - A social History of a Brazilian Popular
                    > Music" by Tamara Elena Livingston-Isenhour and there are a few
                    > websites that cover this style of music - a link:
                    > http://keepswinging.blogspot.com/2006/06/more-choro.html and there
                    > are more links in the comments section of this blog.
                    >
                    > David RIchoux
                    >
                    > On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:36 AM, Albert Haim wrote:
                    >
                    >> Hola Luis,
                    >>
                    >> Indeed, there were some good jazz bands in Argentina in the 1920s. If
                    >> you go to
                    >>
                    >> http://bixography.com/wbix1to50.html
                    >>
                    >> scroll down to program # 26 and click on the "streaming audio file"
                    >> link, you will find, at 12 min, two recordings by Adolfo Carabelli.
                    >> He
                    >> had a successful jazz band in the 1920s in Buenos Aires.
                    >>
                    >> I realize that it would be a lot of work, but red hot jazz
                    >> aficionados
                    >> would be extremely grateful to you if you could add audio files to
                    >> the
                    >> lists of recordings that you already provided.
                    >>
                    >> Un saludo cordial,
                    >>
                    >> Albert
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Albert Haim
                    Thanks for that interesting link. Some of the Pixinguinha recordings are reminiscent of early tangos. Listen to this tango from 1911
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 20, 2008
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                      Thanks for that interesting link. Some of the Pixinguinha recordings
                      are reminiscent of early tangos. Listen to this tango from 1911

                      http://www.todotango.com/spanish/las_obras/grabacion.aspx?id=1135

                      Albert

                      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, David Richoux <tubaman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > A bit of a discovery - a free collection of the music of Pixinguinha
                      > and other Choro musicians from the early 1900s onwards!
                      > (web translation is a bit rough, but you should be able to navigate
                      > pretty well.)
                      > http://acervos.ims.uol.com.br/php/level.php?lang=pt&component=38&item=37
                      >
                      > then click on the 4 links to Music Composed, Interpreted, Executed, or
                      > composed and interpreted by Pixinguinha.
                      >
                      > Some of the recordings remind me of early Blues field recording,
                      > others are quite polished. If you especially like early string bands,
                      > be sure to check this all out - I think you all will find some
                      > interesting parallels between early Jazz and Choro.
                      >
                      > David RIchoux
                      >
                      > On Dec 20, 2008, at 10:23 AM, David Richoux wrote:
                      >
                      > > On a somewhat related note - in Brazil from the 1840s through the
                      > > 1930s there was a very popular style of music called Choro - it was a
                      > > blend of European Polkas and other dance songs mixed with African and
                      > > South American indigenous rhythms. Wind and stringed instruments were
                      > > played, along with vocals and percussion. North American Ragtime and
                      > > Jazz influences were added to the mix in the late 1800s and early
                      > > 1900s - Samba eventually became more popular, but there is a major
                      > > revival of Choro style going on today! (A related style is Forro - a
                      > > more modern version of Choro.)
                      > >
                      > > The word "Choro" is roughly translated as "Cry" and that word has to
                      > > do with an emphasis on descending note patterns in the melody and
                      > > improvised solos. Interestingly, (especially for tuba players) the
                      > > Ophicleide was a major instrument in the bands and there were many
                      > > famous players of that difficult instrument. The saxophone eventually
                      > > replaced the Ophicleide in Brazil by the 1930s. The musician known as
                      > > Pixinguinha is probably the most famous star in the style, but there
                      > > were many other famous players and band leaders.
                      > >
                      > > I have been reading "Choro - A social History of a Brazilian Popular
                      > > Music" by Tamara Elena Livingston-Isenhour and there are a few
                      > > websites that cover this style of music - a link:
                      > > http://keepswinging.blogspot.com/2006/06/more-choro.html and there
                      > > are more links in the comments section of this blog.
                      > >
                      > > David RIchoux
                      > >
                      > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:36 AM, Albert Haim wrote:
                      > >
                    • John O
                      ... Washboard ... The two Dixie Jazzers Washboard Band alternatives appear on Rare 1920s Blues and Jazz (DOCD-5612); notes offer no further biographical
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 21, 2008
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                        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > All of Leecan and Cooksey including the wonderful Dixie Jazzers
                        Washboard
                        > Band is on Document DOCD5279/80.

                        The two Dixie Jazzers Washboard Band alternatives appear on 'Rare
                        1920s Blues and Jazz' (DOCD-5612); notes offer no further biographical
                        speculation.

                        I do wonder if Morris was responsible for Leecan's participation in
                        the December 1927 Waller with Morris Hot Babies session.

                        Merry Christmas/best of the season and a Happy New Year to all Red Hot
                        Jazz people...
                      • Danilo Nogueira
                        Strange finding comments on Pixinguinha s music here (by the way, pronounce it Pee-sheen-GHI-nyah) and choro music. Choro, like traditional jazz, has never
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 22, 2008
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                          Strange finding comments on Pixinguinha's music here (by the way,
                          pronounce it Pee-sheen-GHI-nyah) and choro music. Choro, like
                          traditional jazz, has never disappeared and has gone through more than
                          one revival. Revivals either try to modernize choro, like this:
                          http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=mgv-Pi_c0Lc where Armandinho at the
                          8-stringed ukulele and Yamandú Costa (7-stringed guitar) play a
                          "souped-up" version of Noites Cariocas a classic by Jacob Bittencourt,
                          aka Jacob do Bandolim (Mandolin Jacob), played here in a more
                          conservative version:
                          http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=NnZhXefUR8s&feature=related

                          The standard setup is a mandolin, ukulele and ordinary guitar and a
                          seven-stringed guitar, plus an occasional flute or clarinet.
                          Percussion is usually limited to a tambourine ("pandeiro" —
                          "tamborins" have no jingling metallic discs, are played with a stick,
                          and no used in choro music) played in a way that I believe to be
                          peculiar to Brazil.

                          A very conservative group is seen here playing Brejeiro, by Ernesto
                          Nazareth, originally a salon piece for piano
                          http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=rEI2UfMuyx4. Notice the 11-year old
                          mandolin player. The group is formed by Eduardo (tambourine), his
                          three daughters (Corina, flute; Elisa, mandolin and Lia,
                          seven-stringed guitar) plus a varying complement of neighbors and
                          friends. Several clips by them available.

                          Choro is more a way of playing than a rhythm: here you can hear very
                          slow waltz by two members of the same group
                          http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=niaGA9_ziG0&feature=related and perhaps
                          enjoy the chance of understanding how a 7-stringed guitar is played.

                          Pixinguinha's most famous composition is Carinhoso ("Affectionate" or,
                          perhaps "Tender") by Yamandú Costa on the 7-stringed guitar
                          accompanying an improbable body of singers
                          http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=X-5ZNum4UBo

                          I must disagree with the opinion that choro and forró are related.
                          Choro comes from Rio de Janeiro "subúrbios" (lower middle class
                          neighborhoods), forró comes from the rural Northeast. Choro is mostly
                          instrumental, light on percussion, basically plucked-string music to
                          hear. Forro is, heavy on percussion, with the melody played by an
                          accordion or winds and lyrics full of double-entendres, such as this
                          http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=c1jThRmJwXU. The name is "Chupa que é de
                          uva" which means "suck this ice pop, it is grape flavored" which the
                          singer more often than not pronounces as "Chupa que é viúva", an
                          incitement to perform cunnilingus on a widow. Not the sort of thing
                          thos three charming young ladies would play.

                          (In case you have not noticed, I am Brazilian)

                          --
                          __________________________________
                          Danilo Nogueira -São Bernardo Bra(s/z)il
                          http://tradutor-profissional.blogspot.com/
                        • David Richoux
                          Danilo, Thanks for the links and clarification on the (non) relationship of Choro and Forró - I was in a difficult e-mail conversation a few years ago with a
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                            Danilo,

                            Thanks for the links and clarification on the (non) relationship of
                            Choro and Forró - I was in a difficult e-mail conversation a few years
                            ago with a young forró musician who had recently moved to the USA and
                            I got that part wrong!

                            I think Choro is interesting, not only in the parallel (but
                            different) relationship to the way ragtime and jazz developed, but
                            because it is improvised, popular dance music that was played by
                            amateur and semi-professional musicians and was later
                            "professionalized" by more skilled musicians. I am still reading and
                            learning more about this music - I had happened to find a Pixinguinha
                            collection CD when my band was touring in Brazil and I have been
                            intrigued by the music ever since.

                            David Richoux

                            On Dec 22, 2008, at 7:09 PM, Danilo Nogueira wrote:

                            > Strange finding comments on Pixinguinha's music here (by the way,
                            > pronounce it Pee-sheen-GHI-nyah) and choro music. Choro, like
                            > traditional jazz, has never disappeared and has gone through more than
                            > one revival.
                          • Danilo Nogueira
                            Glad to be of help, David. A curiosity that may make things clearly for you and other people who may have an interest in things Brazilian: Forró ,
                            Message 13 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                              Glad to be of help, David.

                              A curiosity that may make things clearly for you and other people who
                              may have an interest in things Brazilian: "Forró", originally, is an
                              informal dance party in the rural Northeast. It is said—although there
                              is no clear evidence to prove it—that the word stems from the English
                              "for all", meaning a "dance party for all". It is said that British
                              companies in the Northeast used to have separate parties for 'the good
                              families" and "for all", which, in practice, meant, "for the working
                              classes", since no self-respecting member of the aristocracy would mix
                              with manual laborers. The British companies and the practice
                              disappeared a long time agor, but until, say, the 1990's, "informal
                              dance party for the common people" was the only meaning of the word.
                              Several kinds of music are played in forrós (but choros are
                              practically unknown in that part of the country) but a specific type
                              of music also called forró evolved in those dances.

                              An early form is found here: http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=0vwgxHmGrWo

                              The leather hats are part of the cultural identity of the Northeastern
                              man. Luiz Gonzaga emcees and asks Dominguinhos, who was back from an
                              Italian tour, if he had played the real thing over there in Europe or
                              had "sophisticated it a bit". Dominguinhos claims he played it like it
                              is and proceeds to give a demonstration.

                              And now, I will keep my big Brazilian mouth shut for a while.
                              Apologies for the invasion.


                              Danilo

                              [note from moderator : it's more than OK, Danilo, come back any time ;-)
                              A merry Christmas to all group-members - Patrice ]

                              On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 5:23 AM, David Richoux <tubaman@...> wrote:
                              > Danilo,
                              >
                              > Thanks for the links and clarification on the (non) relationship of
                              > Choro and Forró - I was in a difficult e-mail conversation a few years
                              > ago with a young forró musician who had recently moved to the USA and
                              > I got that part wrong!
                              >
                              > I think Choro is interesting, not only in the parallel (but
                              > different) relationship to the way ragtime and jazz developed, but
                              > because it is improvised, popular dance music that was played by
                              > amateur and semi-professional musicians and was later
                              > "professionalized" by more skilled musicians. I am still reading and
                              > learning more about this music - I had happened to find a Pixinguinha
                              > collection CD when my band was touring in Brazil and I have been
                              > intrigued by the music ever since.
                              >
                              > David Richoux
                              >
                              > On Dec 22, 2008, at 7:09 PM, Danilo Nogueira wrote:
                              >
                              >> Strange finding comments on Pixinguinha's music here (by the way,
                              >> pronounce it Pee-sheen-GHI-nyah) and choro music. Choro, like
                              >> traditional jazz, has never disappeared and has gone through more than
                              >> one revival.
                              >



                              --
                              __________________________________
                              Danilo Nogueira -São Bernardo Bra(s/z)il
                              http://tradutor-profissional.blogspot.com/
                            • Danilo Nogueira
                              Albert Yes, there is a very strong connection. In addition several Brazilian composers wrote tangos in a vein that was entirely different from whatever our
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                                Albert

                                Yes, there is a very strong connection. In addition several Brazilian
                                composers wrote "tangos" in a vein that was entirely different from
                                whatever our River Plate brothers were doing. This is from Ernesto
                                Nazareth

                                http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=AlQRjb2Clb8&feature=related


                                (The singing is a good immitation of what was going on at the time,
                                the dancing is a modern creation and would have been found
                                unacceptable)



                                On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Albert Haim <alberthaim@...> wrote:
                                > Thanks for that interesting link. Some of the Pixinguinha recordings
                                > are reminiscent of early tangos. Listen to this tango from 1911
                                >
                                > http://www.todotango.com/spanish/las_obras/grabacion.aspx?id=1135
                                >
                                > Albert
                                >
                                > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, David Richoux <tubaman@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> A bit of a discovery - a free collection of the music of Pixinguinha
                                >> and other Choro musicians from the early 1900s onwards!
                                >> (web translation is a bit rough, but you should be able to navigate
                                >> pretty well.)
                                >> http://acervos.ims.uol.com.br/php/level.php?lang=pt&component=38&item=37
                                >>
                                >> then click on the 4 links to Music Composed, Interpreted, Executed, or
                                >> composed and interpreted by Pixinguinha.
                                >>
                                >> Some of the recordings remind me of early Blues field recording,
                                >> others are quite polished. If you especially like early string bands,
                                >> be sure to check this all out - I think you all will find some
                                >> interesting parallels between early Jazz and Choro.
                                >>
                                >> David RIchoux
                                >>
                                >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 10:23 AM, David Richoux wrote:
                                >>
                                >> > On a somewhat related note - in Brazil from the 1840s through the
                                >> > 1930s there was a very popular style of music called Choro - it was a
                                >> > blend of European Polkas and other dance songs mixed with African and
                                >> > South American indigenous rhythms. Wind and stringed instruments were
                                >> > played, along with vocals and percussion. North American Ragtime and
                                >> > Jazz influences were added to the mix in the late 1800s and early
                                >> > 1900s - Samba eventually became more popular, but there is a major
                                >> > revival of Choro style going on today! (A related style is Forro - a
                                >> > more modern version of Choro.)
                                >> >
                                >> > The word "Choro" is roughly translated as "Cry" and that word has to
                                >> > do with an emphasis on descending note patterns in the melody and
                                >> > improvised solos. Interestingly, (especially for tuba players) the
                                >> > Ophicleide was a major instrument in the bands and there were many
                                >> > famous players of that difficult instrument. The saxophone eventually
                                >> > replaced the Ophicleide in Brazil by the 1930s. The musician known as
                                >> > Pixinguinha is probably the most famous star in the style, but there
                                >> > were many other famous players and band leaders.
                                >> >
                                >> > I have been reading "Choro - A social History of a Brazilian Popular
                                >> > Music" by Tamara Elena Livingston-Isenhour and there are a few
                                >> > websites that cover this style of music - a link:
                                >> > http://keepswinging.blogspot.com/2006/06/more-choro.html and there
                                >> > are more links in the comments section of this blog.
                                >> >
                                >> > David RIchoux
                                >> >
                                >> > On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:36 AM, Albert Haim wrote:
                                >> >
                                >
                                >



                                --
                                __________________________________
                                Danilo Nogueira -São Bernardo Bra(s/z)il
                                http://tradutor-profissional.blogspot.com/
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