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RE: [RedHotJazz] Moten, Waters, Harris, Williams' QRS and then another (unrelated) Williams session query

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  • yves francois
    David and Michael (and all else seeing these never ending threads) I forgot about Midnight Stomp as Arville Harris (I absolutely LOVE that record by the way,
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 29, 2008
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      David and Michael (and all else seeing these never ending threads)

      I forgot about "Midnight Stomp" as Arville Harris (I absolutely LOVE that record by the way, great Waters, fantastic scoring etc, it is the record that, along with "Papa De Da Da" from 1925 that made me see Clarence Williams as one of my all time favorite band leaders, set in stone at the early age of 11), that may be one of Arville's better solos (both takes), (if we disregard "One O Clock Blues" as his work) and reopens my earlier POV that it is possibly he on that. By the way, it is very funky, and though not a first rank solo in the way of a Dodds or Noone,it is a very good one for Arville. I did not know he was considered to be the clarinet on this record at this point in time, (my sources, as always, disagree on who and what on the reeds)*
      Arville is usually listed, however, on the QRS blues sessions by Anna Bell and Katherine Henderson, we hear a little more fluidity, and a couple Doddsian moments on "Kitchen Woamn Blues" -1 45 seconds in, too bad it is only 2 seconds, and more on "Lock Step Blues" take one (about 36 seconds in), but check both takes throughout the record, we may of finally found the highest rank Arville (sorry I spent so much time in 1931 Calloway land, maybe he modernized his style to dire effect, but he certainly would not be the first musician to do that), but I still question, re his one solo on the session "I Don't Care Who Get's What I Don't Want", it's almost there, check 1.58 into the record, after Ed Allen's solo, but it does lack some of Jari's (to quote another possible clarinet, BTW my entry for "Red Hot Flo" and "One O Clock Blues" now annotates solos by poss Arville Harris or Carmello Jari, and don't discount Bennie Moten) strength in embouchure (or the
      clarinet on "Red Hot Flo" for that case). Still, the concept matches (even if the vibrato does not quite, but then Arville seems to use a different vibratos even within a session), the quality does not quite, but remember, musicians do not always record as well as they play live (believe me, I know this one).
      When this is all done, I think we need to make a revised entries on Clarence Williams' sessions, now should I start another thread, and that is regarding the 1935 Birmingham Serenader's session for Decca, and my thoughts RE: Pete Brown and Ed Anderson (Anderson recently left the MBRB, check his work from the 1928/34 period to this session, he modernizes - to better effect than Arville BTW - by 1939/40 on the Sullivan's so don't refer to those), too late, anyone comment...
      Yves Francois Smierciak

      PS I thought Howard's excellent entry re Moten etc discounts the presence of Bennie Moten (Motton , Morton) on these sessions, whomever is playing what it does not sound like him, maybe Ben Whitted needs to be looked closer on all of this (check first Waller rhythm session from spring 1934 for comparisons, I will this weekend)

      *if we EVER get this down on 1926/1935 Williams sessions on who played what, it should be published. BTW, when I told Benny Waters' that I liked "Midnight Stomp" by Clarence Williams very much, he smiled, I did not press on who was the clarinet solo, felt it was not the question to ask someone at 94 years old.

      --- On Fri, 8/29/08, David Brown <johnhaleysims@...> wrote:
      From: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
      Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Bennies Moten & Waters (was Re: Arville Harris, etc.)
      To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 3:02 AM

      Playing through the Clarence QRSs in search of Moten.

      The August 1928 session has two rather shaky clarinet duets and one solo on 'New Down Home Blues' which sounds to me, despite claim in 'King Joe Oliver' that it is Moten, like Arville.

      The next, November, session also sounds like typical Arville on 'Midnight Stomp'.

      The second November session offers long clarinet solos of a different calibre on all three sides including two on 'Longshoreman' s Blues'. This is very fine and fluent and complete clarinet playing and can only be Buster and not Moten as posited in 'King Joe Oliver'.

      The December session has only one clarinet solo on 'Sister Kate' where the work is compatible with the Tibbs 'One O'clock' with shrill, somtimes Doddsian phrasing and intonation problems. All sources list Arville here.

      The Jazz Kings 29 Jan 1927 sides -- with both Whittet and Moten as (?) in Rust -- have the clarinets almost throughout in approximate duet but nothing here comparable 'Flo'.

      I have only 'Senegalese' of the Joe Jordans -- with reported 'Benny Motton' -- but the clarinet soloist here is rather staid and also not comparable 'Flo'.

      I reckon a Bennie too far to interpret the Chicago Morton as Moten/Motton. Is he listed as reed player ?


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