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Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: mixed bands: Sonny Lee/Trumbauer/Creath

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  • Dan Van Landingham
    I first heard Sonny Lee via a couple of sides by the Bunny Berigan Orchestra.He was a marvellous trombonist who joined Berigan by August,1937 and left circa
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 3, 2008
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      I first heard Sonny Lee via a couple of sides by the Bunny Berigan Orchestra.He was a marvellous trombonist who joined Berigan by August,1937 and left circa March,1938 while
      Berigan was playing at the Paradise Restaurant.He did work for Isham Jones,Frank Trum-
      bauer in Saint Louis with Bix in 1925 according to Sudhalter as well as Jimmy Dorsey.In
      fact,Lee went with Dorsey for pretty much the same reason Berigan altoists Joe Dixon and
      Mike Doty did:Berigan's band was starting to stall.I remember Lee for his solos on such B-
      erigan recordings as "The Prisoner's Song" as well as a wonderful solo on "Louisiana" wh-
      ich was his "swan song" with Berigan.Regarding The Scranton Sirens,it has been my imp-
      ression that Billy Lustig's Scranton Sirens were based out of Scranton,PA.I just finished
      reading Peter J. Levinson's biography on Tommy Dorsey and it seems to corroburate eve-
      rything I had ever read previously on the Sirens such as the liner notes from the Columbia
      boxed set "Thesaurus of Classic Jazz" forty years ago.The one thing I have never known
      about the Sirens was what record label they may have recorded for.To my knowledge,it
      was never mentioned by Sudhalter�or anyone else for that matter.If anyone can help me on
      that matter,I would appreciate it.

      --- On Sat, 8/2/08, Albert Haim <alberthaim@...> wrote:

      From: Albert Haim <alberthaim@...>
      Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: mixed bands: Sonny Lee/Trumbauer/Creath
      To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 5:51 PM






      I do not know if the Scranton Sirens were in St. Louis or Texas in
      1925. However, it is possible they were. Note that according to Rust's
      Dance Band disco, the Scranton Sirens recorded two sides, "Why Should
      I Believe In You" and "Common Street Blues" in New Orleans around Jan
      24, 1925. Perhaps on the way to or from New Orleans, they were in
      Texas and/or St. Louis.

      "Why Should I Believe In You" is availalbe in
      http://www.redhotja zz.com/sirens. html

      Albert

      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com, yves francois <aprestitine@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Howard
      > I was reading Chilton's "Who's Who's In Jazz" last night* when I
      came across this entry:
      > LEE, "Sonny" Thomas Ball b: Huntsville Texas 26th August 1904
      >
      > "Studied at Texas State Teacher's College ,worked with Peck Kelly in
      Texas. Continued studies in St Louis, worked for the "Scranton
      Sirens". Whilst with Trumbauer in St Louis (1925) did occasional work
      with Charlie Creath, including a recording session. With Gene
      Rodemich, Paul Specht, Harold Leonard and Vincent Lopez, before
      joining Isham Jones from 1933 to 1936." He also mentions Shaw, Berigan
      and Jimmy Dorsey (1938 to 1946).
      > All well and good except for one thing. Did Chilton actually had
      a correspondence with this man, I know John Chilton did with many
      musicians of that era (at least one musician I knew told me as much),
      is there any way we know of? The Scranton Sirens, were not based in
      Pennsylvania for at least part of 1925, did they ever travel in Texas
      or St Louis? Did Goldkette (or Trumbauer) liked what they heard and
      raided Billy Lustig's band (like Goldkette did for the Dorsey's)?
      > Only questions, no answers, unless we know of any written
      correspondence Chilton (or can we get a hold of him regarding this?)
      may of had with Lee (or perhaps I will ask Bob Koester if any of the
      older black St Louis musicians knew of this)
      >
      > All the best
      > Yves Francois Smierciak
      >
      > PS I do my doubts as well, esp the Lee who plays quite well on the
      Teddy Grace session, either that or he was a very versatile musician
      >
      > * 1978 edition
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote:
      > From: Howard Rye <howard@...>
      > Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] mixed bands: Allen/Lyman Lee/Creath
      > To: "red hot jazz" <RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com>
      > Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 8:41 AM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I think the jury is still out on Sonny Lee and probably
      likely to stay out.
      >
      >
      >
      > I wrote Thomas Ball Lee (Scarnton Sirens ���Vincent Lopez���Isham
      Jones���Artie
      >
      > Shaw���Charlie Barnet��� Bunny Berigan ���Jimmy Dorsey) for Grove
      and concluded
      >
      > very provisionally that it was unlikely to be the same musician on the
      >
      > Creath sides. There is nothing aurally to associate the playing of
      the Sonny
      >
      > Lee on the Creath records with any of Thomas Ball Lee��s other work.
      If there
      >
      > is in fact an African-American musician with the same monniker then
      it also
      >
      > raises the question of which Sonny Lee is to be heard on the 1939 Teddy
      >
      > Grace sides as he sounds like neither of the others!
      >
      >
      >
      > These are questions that could once easily have been answered by
      asking him
      >
      > (Thomas Ball Lee) but it seems that nobody bothered.
      >
      > It was certainly Thomas Ball Lee who played with Bix and Pee Wee in
      Tram's
      >
      > St Louis band.
      >
      >
      >
      > on 17/07/2008 13:29, yves francois at aprestitine@ yahoo.com wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Fredrik
      >
      > > I think you are talking about Sonny Lee, trombonist (was he the
      one who played
      >
      > > with Bix and Pee Wee in Tram's St Louis band?), he is on the
      session from
      >
      > > later 1925 ("Market Street Stomp" ). Has it been definite that it
      is the same
      >
      > > gentleman, If it is he, could it be that Charles Lawson was ill,
      so he sent
      >
      > > the trombonist from another band to take his place? Also, is this
      the same
      >
      > > trombonist who played with numerous swing bands in the 30's? ...
      >


















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    • Albert Haim
      The recordings by the Scranton Sirens of Why Should I Believe In You and Common Street Blues in New Orleans from Jan 24, 1925, were issued as OKeh 40297
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 4, 2008
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        The recordings by the Scranton Sirens of "Why Should I Believe In You"
        and "Common Street Blues" in New Orleans from Jan 24, 1925, were
        issued as OKeh 40297 and 40329, respectively.

        Albert




        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Dan Van Landingham
        <danvanlandingham@...> wrote:
        >
        The one thing I have never known about the Sirens was what record
        label they may have recorded for.To my knowledge,it was never
        mentioned by Sudhalter or anyone else for that matter.If anyone can
        help me on
        that matter,I would appreciate it.
      • Dan Van Landingham
        Thank you for the information regarding the Sirens.Are there any CDs of them such as RHJ s website in conjunction with Timeless Records. ... From: Albert Haim
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 4, 2008
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          Thank you for the information regarding the Sirens.Are there any CDs of them such as RHJ's website in conjunction with Timeless Records.

          --- On Mon, 8/4/08, Albert Haim <alberthaim@...> wrote:

          From: Albert Haim <alberthaim@...>
          Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: mixed bands: Sonny Lee/Trumbauer/Creath
          To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 7:58 AM






          The recordings by the Scranton Sirens of "Why Should I Believe In You"
          and "Common Street Blues" in New Orleans from Jan 24, 1925, were
          issued as OKeh 40297 and 40329, respectively.

          Albert

          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com, Dan Van Landingham
          <danvanlandingham@ ...> wrote:
          >
          The one thing I have never known about the Sirens was what record
          label they may have recorded for.To my knowledge,it was never
          mentioned by Sudhalter or anyone else for that matter.If anyone can
          help me on
          that matter,I would appreciate it.


















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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