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Frank Teshmacher and Pee Wee Russell

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  • Gilber M. Erskine
    The great damage done to the reputations of these two giants of the jazz clarinet was done chiefly by two critics who championed bebop in the 1940s--- Barry
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 23, 2008
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      The great damage done to the reputations of these two giants of the jazz clarinet was done chiefly by two critics who championed bebop in the 1940s--- Barry Ulanov and Leonard Feather. Both had nothing but venomous ridicule in their commentaries on Tesch and Pee Wee.

      Both critics were often excellent in their work in other areas of jazz, but both were agenda-driven in their intense dislike of many facets of early jazz--- especially white Chicago jazz.

      An unfortunate spin-off has been the enormous influence these critics have had in subsequent jazz writers, many of whom simply parrot what Feather and Ulanov wrote.

      It is true that most New Orleans clarinet players also dislike the playing of Tesch and Pee Wee. I recall with great amusement that Barney Bigard cancelled his subscription to DownBeat after Pee Wee won the critics' vote for the best clarinet. Many of the great New Orleans clarinetists--- Jimmie Noone, Leon Roppolo, Albert Nicholas, Irving Fazola, etc., came up through the dark, clear, beautiful clarinet downtown style of Lorenzo Tio, Jr. Even Raymond Burke, who, like Johnny Dodds, played the rougher uptown clarinet style would shake his head listening to Pee Wee on some Condon Commodores.

      How good was Tesch's jazz clarinet?

      In February, March, and April 1928, a Charlie Pierce group including Muggsy Spanier and Tesch cut the famous 6 sides for Paramount--- Bull Frog Blues, China Boy, Nobody's Sweetheart, and 2 each of Sister Kate and Jazz Me Blues.

      When Charles Edward Smith's THE JAZZ RECORD BOOK came out around 1940, the critics there talked about the fierce controversy raging over whether the clarinetist on Sister Kate and Jazz Me Blues was by Tesch or Maurie Bercov. It subsequently turned out that both sides were correct--- on Jazz Me [Paramount 12640, Take 20469-3], Bercov is the clarinetist; on Take 20469-5, Tesch is the clarinetist. On Sister Kate [Paramount 12640, Take 20470-4],. Bercov is present, while Tesch does Take 20470-4.

      Now listen to both these tunes played with the two different clarinet players. The Bercov sides are dreary while the Tesch sides sparkle with drive and energy. That's the effect that Tesch had on his fellow musicians.

      I would love to know the details on the 2 clarinets switching on these 2 takes, but it appears we now will never know.

      It is to be regretted that Tesch and Pee Wee have suffered great neglect. But I feel confident that future cirtics will give these two the attention they deserve.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dan Van Landingham
      I heard the Charles Pierce recording of China Boy back in the late 60s by way of that ten record set that was on Riverside.Maurice Bercov is a name to
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 23, 2008
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        I heard the Charles Pierce recording of "China Boy" back in the late '60s by way of that
        ten record set that was on Riverside.Maurice Bercov is a name to me:just some name
        I saw on discographies some of which I have on those aforementioned big band hits I
        spoke of earlier this evening.Tesch would have been a great player had he lived judging
        by his recording of "Prince of Wales" cut in 1929 for Brunswick.I did get a kick out of his
        clarinet solo on "China Boy".The tenor player,Ralph Rudder,was quite good:I played the
        recording for a friend of mine and he once asked me if it was Eddie Miller;I said "No.It
        was Ralph Rudder."Unfortunately,that is the only thing I ever heard by the man.As for
        Leon Roppolo,there is little recorded material I have to go on save what I've read in the
        past by Blesh and Sudhalter in "Bix,Man and Legend".I read,by way of John Chilton in
        1978,Roppolo played tenor sax shortly before his death in 1943 in a mental institution.

        --- On Mon, 6/23/08, Gilber M. Erskine <gerskine@...> wrote:

        From: Gilber M. Erskine <gerskine@...>
        Subject: [RedHotJazz] Frank Teshmacher and Pee Wee Russell
        To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 5:33 PM






        The great damage done to the reputations of these two giants of the jazz clarinet was done chiefly by two critics who championed bebop in the 1940s--- Barry Ulanov and Leonard Feather. Both had nothing but venomous ridicule in their commentaries on Tesch and Pee Wee.

        Both critics were often excellent in their work in other areas of jazz, but both were agenda-driven in their intense dislike of many facets of early jazz--- especially white Chicago jazz.

        An unfortunate spin-off has been the enormous influence these critics have had in subsequent jazz writers, many of whom simply parrot what Feather and Ulanov wrote.

        It is true that most New Orleans clarinet players also dislike the playing of Tesch and Pee Wee. I recall with great amusement that Barney Bigard cancelled his subscription to DownBeat after Pee Wee won the critics' vote for the best clarinet. Many of the great New Orleans clarinetists- -- Jimmie Noone, Leon Roppolo, Albert Nicholas, Irving Fazola, etc., came up through the dark, clear, beautiful clarinet downtown style of Lorenzo Tio, Jr. Even Raymond Burke, who, like Johnny Dodds, played the rougher uptown clarinet style would shake his head listening to Pee Wee on some Condon Commodores.

        How good was Tesch's jazz clarinet?

        In February, March, and April 1928, a Charlie Pierce group including Muggsy Spanier and Tesch cut the famous 6 sides for Paramount--- Bull Frog Blues, China Boy, Nobody's Sweetheart, and 2 each of Sister Kate and Jazz Me Blues.

        When Charles Edward Smith's THE JAZZ RECORD BOOK came out around 1940, the critics there talked about the fierce controversy raging over whether the clarinetist on Sister Kate and Jazz Me Blues was by Tesch or Maurie Bercov. It subsequently turned out that both sides were correct--- on Jazz Me [Paramount 12640, Take 20469-3], Bercov is the clarinetist; on Take 20469-5, Tesch is the clarinetist. On Sister Kate [Paramount 12640, Take 20470-4],. Bercov is present, while Tesch does Take 20470-4.

        Now listen to both these tunes played with the two different clarinet players. The Bercov sides are dreary while the Tesch sides sparkle with drive and energy. That's the effect that Tesch had on his fellow musicians.

        I would love to know the details on the 2 clarinets switching on these 2 takes, but it appears we now will never know.

        It is to be regretted that Tesch and Pee Wee have suffered great neglect. But I feel confident that future cirtics will give these two the attention they deserve.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Brown
        The Timeless Pierce issue reverses both Jazz Me and Kate but I am prepared to believe that the first session (for Rust has the alts. recorded the next
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 24, 2008
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          The Timeless Pierce issue reverses both 'Jazz Me' and 'Kate' but I am
          prepared to believe that the first session (for Rust has the alts. recorded
          the next month) has Bercov, although he is not so dissimilar to Tesch only
          agreed, not so good. But there definitely was a white Chicago clarinet
          style in which Tesch and Bercov and Cless and even Mezz can be heard
          playing. The primary influence on this seems to be Noone, lineally, but with
          tonal and other intrusions from Dodds. There are certainly superficial
          similarities to Pee Wee but he was not in Chicago in his seminal years but
          'Bix and Pee Wee came to hear our band (with Tesch) at White City' (Bud
          Freeman)

          The origins of New Orleans clarinet style are lost but certainly more
          complicated. Tio was extremely influential but there was also a distinctly
          white, maybe originally Italian, clarinet tradition, pre-eminent in
          Roppolo, from whom I hear both Faz and Burke coming. Pee Wee cited Nunez as
          initial influence. I have yet to find evidence, written or aural, for the
          mythical 'rough' downtown clarinet style.

          I am fascinated to hear the Burke/Pee Wee Commodore story. What is the
          source for this? I have always believed that Burke must have listened
          closely to Pee Wee and we must not forget that Pee Wee was, in his time, a
          FAMOUS clarinettist who won polls.

          Dave






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gilber M. Erskine
          The source is me. I attended Loyola Univ, New
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 24, 2008
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            <<<I am fascinated to hear the Burke/Pee Wee Commodore story. What is the source for this?---David M. Brown>>>

            The source is me. I attended Loyola Univ, New Orleans in the late 1940s and hung out mostly at Orin Blackstone's New Orleans Jazz Shop on Barrone St. Johnny Wiggs, Armand Hug, Raymond Burke, and drummer Fred King were there as much as I was. Danny Barker and Doc Souchon were there occasionally.Orin worked on his INDEX TO JAZZ discography in the back room and we would listen to his stock of jazz records in the booths in the front of the Shop.

            To get a clear idea of the ability Raymond Burke had, I strongly recommend the 1994 album SOURCE TO DELTA,
            the track Original Dixieland One Step, with a front line of Doc Evans, Raymond Burke, and Emile Christian. Amrand Hug, Doc Souchon, and Monk Hazel were in the rhythm section.

            Ray Burke had a shy, retiring personality, except when he had his clarinet and was playing jazz, when he was as bold as a tiger. I have never heard him play better than on the Original Dixieland track. He had a trick of "exploding" during his ensemble playing, kicking the rest of the band into high gear, and the best example I've ever heard is on this track. When old Emile Christian falters and drops out in the final chorus of the tune, Raymond quickly adjusts and drops into the the low register to fill in the trombone part. Absolutely phenomenal.

            Ray Burke's Slow Blues [issued on the Creole lable] was done at a gig in Kansas City in 1944. I would rank it among the top 10 blues performances ever, right up there with Louis Armstrong and Bessie Smith doing Cold In Hand Blues.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: David Brown
            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 6:04 AM
            Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Frank Teshmacher and Pee Wee Russell


            The Timeless Pierce issue reverses both 'Jazz Me' and 'Kate' but I am
            prepared to believe that the first session (for Rust has the alts. recorded
            the next month) has Bercov, although he is not so dissimilar to Tesch only
            agreed, not so good. But there definitely was a white Chicago clarinet
            style in which Tesch and Bercov and Cless and even Mezz can be heard
            playing. The primary influence on this seems to be Noone, lineally, but with
            tonal and other intrusions from Dodds. There are certainly superficial
            similarities to Pee Wee but he was not in Chicago in his seminal years but
            'Bix and Pee Wee came to hear our band (with Tesch) at White City' (Bud
            Freeman)

            The origins of New Orleans clarinet style are lost but certainly more
            complicated. Tio was extremely influential but there was also a distinctly
            white, maybe originally Italian, clarinet tradition, pre-eminent in
            Roppolo, from whom I hear both Faz and Burke coming. Pee Wee cited Nunez as
            initial influence. I have yet to find evidence, written or aural, for the
            mythical 'rough' downtown clarinet style.

            I am fascinated to hear the Burke/Pee Wee Commodore story. What is the
            source for this? I have always believed that Burke must have listened
            closely to Pee Wee and we must not forget that Pee Wee was, in his time, a
            FAMOUS clarinettist who won polls.

            Dave

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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          • David Brown
            Hello Gilber Many thanks for your fascinating first hand account. You do not have to convince me of the qualities of Ray Burke, indeed a wonder of our music. I
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 25, 2008
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              Hello Gilber

              Many thanks for your fascinating first hand account.

              You do not have to convince me of the qualities of Ray Burke, indeed a
              wonder of our music.

              I also recommend the 504 trio album with Butch Thompson and, of course, the
              Speakeasy Boys with Wooden Joe Nicholas. But also just about everything he's
              on.

              Not least of his qualities was his originality but I have always heard the
              possibility of some Pee Wee influence.

              You knew him, did he talk about his music and his influences ? And would
              they have been predominately black or white or both ?

              Dave




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Robert Greenwood
              ... is the source for this?---David M. Brown ... Reading this for the first time I thought it sounded familiar, so last night at home I dug out my copy of
              Message 6 of 24 , Jun 26, 2008
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                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Gilber M. Erskine" <gerskine@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > <<<I am fascinated to hear the Burke/Pee Wee Commodore story. What
                is the source for this?---David M. Brown>>>
                >
                > The source is me.

                Reading this for the first time I thought it sounded familiar, so last
                night at home I dug out my copy of the Spring 1976 issue of The Second
                Line and found Gilbert's article on The New Orleans Record Shop. "A new
                batch of Commodores and Blue Notes had arrived, and there is Ray Burke
                smiling at Pee Wee Russell's hoarse break on Serenade to a Shylock…" A
                fascinating article, Gilbert. Welcome to the Group.
                This issue of Second Line also includes Gilbert's interesting article
                on the 1920s Louis blues accompaniments.
                Robert Greenwood
              • David Brown
                Sorry Gilbert but Yahoo ( or Mama) has hidden your T. Just found Sudhalter on Burke. His claim is that Burke fused the city s two major streams of hot
                Message 7 of 24 , Jun 26, 2008
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                  Sorry Gilbert but Yahoo ( or Mama) has hidden your T.

                  Just found Sudhalter on Burke. His claim is that Burke 'fused the city's
                  two major streams of hot clarinet playing -- Creole as carried forward by
                  the disciples of Tio and white -- Sicilian -- Roppolo, Scaglione -- and the
                  forceful lyricism of Arodin, Fazola and Miller.'

                  --- ' there is no imitation here, no measured eclecticism, but something
                  far simpler and more intriguing. In Raymond Burke the lines of development
                  have met at last and interacted in what maybe the most complete of New
                  Orleans clarinet styles'




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Gilber M. Erskine
                  Like many early jazz musicians, Raymond was not very good discussing his influences. I try
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jun 29, 2008
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                    <<<Did Raymond Burke talk about his influences?---David Brown>>>

                    Like many early jazz musicians, Raymond was not very good discussing his influences. "I try to find the pretty notes," he said, and you have to do heavy interpretation to understand what he meant by 'pretty'. Not 'nice' or 'soft' or sentimental, but a music statement that immense emotional value.

                    Like most all New Orleans white musicians, Raymond and
                    Armand Hug kept a wide, distant, mostly non-existent social relationship with black musicians. Both were adamantly strong admirers of Louis Armstrong [and Jelly Roll for Hug].
                    In those days, Raymond had not yet begun his extensive gigs with blacks, though once we took him out to Manny's Tavern to sit in with the George Lewis group [a fantastic rhythm section, but Elmer Talbot on trumpet was a disaster].

                    Raymond, in those days, was non-union, and consequently was not playing with good players in good jobs. But he had a good reputation. Sharkey Bonano once said to me, "You think Raymond plays pretty good? Well you should have heard him 10 years ago when he was even better."

                    As an indication of the typical white-black relationship at that time, I was once talking to Raymond about Sidney Arodin and the sides he made with Lee Collins in the '20s.
                    "Arodin was a jig, passing as white," was what Raymond said. Now that comment would deservedly trigger a lot of anger today, but it was the univsersal, unspoken attitude
                    that few escaped from at that time. There was no hatred or rancor behind Raymond's comment, just a reflection of the social mileu of the time.

                    The incredible Doc Souchon, a wealthy, socially prominent physician in New Orleans, fitted exactly with that attitude at that time. Doc had a rigorous southern attitude toward blacks, but you never dared question him on the contradictions of this stance. Doc brought George Baquet to give a talk about Buddy Bolden and Keppard with the Creole Band to a meeting of the N.O.Jazz Club. In those days, I didn't give much weight to verbal reminiscenings like this, so what he said went in one ear and out the other [what a shame!], but I do recall that Baquet spoke with great dignity and bearing, certainly equal to anyone else at the meeting. Doc helped many, many blacks in New Orleans, so I'm positive he didn't harbor any deep seated animosity. His attitude was simply 'going along' with everyone else in black-white social relations.
                    --------GILBERT M. ERSKINE
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: David Brown
                    To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 3:49 AM
                    Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Ray Burke was Frank Teshmacher and Pee Wee Russell


                    Hello Gilber

                    Many thanks for your fascinating first hand account.

                    You do not have to convince me of the qualities of Ray Burke, indeed a
                    wonder of our music.

                    I also recommend the 504 trio album with Butch Thompson and, of course, the
                    Speakeasy Boys with Wooden Joe Nicholas. But also just about everything he's
                    on.

                    Not least of his qualities was his originality but I have always heard the
                    possibility of some Pee Wee influence.

                    You knew him, did he talk about his music and his influences ? And would
                    they have been predominately black or white or both ?

                    Dave

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                  • Robert Greenwood
                    ... blacks, though once we took him out to Manny s Tavern to sit in with the George Lewis group [a fantastic rhythm section, but Elmer Talbot on trumpet was a
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jun 30, 2008
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                      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Gilber M. Erskine" <gerskine@...>
                      wrote:
                      > In those days, Raymond had not yet begun his extensive gigs with
                      blacks, though once we took him out to Manny's Tavern to sit in with
                      the George Lewis group [a fantastic rhythm section, but Elmer Talbot on
                      trumpet was a disaster].

                      This is really fascinating stuff, Gilbert. Thanks for sharing it with
                      us. For all our theorising & arguing, there is no substitute for the
                      first-hand eyewitness account.
                      I am interested in what you say about Elmer Talbot (or is it Talbert?).
                      Sam Charters, in his book Jazz New Orleans, describes Elmer as a
                      tasteless screamer. This is certainly not borne out on any of the
                      recordings that feature him. The George Lewis Jam Session from 1950
                      (recorded by Doc Souchon) is among the very greatest of all New Orleans
                      sessions. Can you tell us more about Elmer and why, when you heard him,
                      he was such a "disaster"?
                      Robert Greenwood.
                    • David Brown
                      Gilbert I want to thank you for your long and fascinating posts. They are most appreciated. We have done Arodin here and, I think, it was definitely proved by
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jun 30, 2008
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                        Gilbert

                        I want to thank you for your long and fascinating posts. They are most
                        appreciated.

                        We have done Arodin here and, I think, it was definitely proved by Albert,
                        if that can be proved, that he was white. I have just retrieved this from
                        the archive:-


                        -- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@...> wrote:

                        I wrote to Wesley Charter, Sidney Arodin's nephew, and asked him about his
                        uncle's ancestry. He kindly responded promptly. Here is what he wrote.

                        "My Uncle was white and French. Both of his parents were of French descent.
                        Of course, if you know any history of France, you will recall that the Moors
                        conquered Spain and parts of France and never returned to Africa. In this
                        sense, he might be considered to be part black, but that is a stretch. [Here
                        is a comment: As I understand it, Moors were Muslims, Arabs and Berbers,
                        dark-skinned, but not necessarily black]. I was under the impression that he
                        was born in 1902 and I remember this because my father was born in 1903. He
                        was married 3 times and had a daughter named Lillian (Regan)Arnondin who
                        lived in Dallas, TX until her death several years ago. I don't remember the
                        names of all of his wives. Sidney had 3 sisters. My aunts Pauline, Nora and
                        my mom, Zoe. Many people of French descent claimed to be creole but this was
                        a common mistake still made by many. My understanding of the word creole was
                        a person of mixed French and Spanish decent.In regards to my grandmother's
                        last name before marriage, it was Jambon. Literally translated, this means
                        Ham in English. Her dad came over from Marseille France and died at the age
                        of 94 after retiring when he was 47. He subscribed to a Marseille newspaper
                        right up until the time he died."

                        The racial attitude of Burke, Souchon et al is very hard to admire and seems
                        to negate ideas of great influence passing from black to white -- or vice
                        versa -- after the formative years of the music.

                        I well understand your disillusionment with latter day revivalism. You have
                        not missed so much.

                        Dave



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Albert Haim
                        In his American Dance Band Discography (1975 edition) and Jazz Records (1978 edition) Rust spells Frank s last name as Teschmacher. In his 2002 edition he
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jun 30, 2008
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                          In his American Dance Band Discography (1975 edition) and Jazz Records
                          (1978 edition) Rust spells Frank's last name as Teschmacher. In his
                          2002 edition he spells it Teschemacher.

                          The correct spelling is TESCHEMACHER. Frank appears in the 1910 and
                          1920 US censuses as Frank Teschemacher living with his father Charles
                          (in Kansas City in 1910, in Chicago in 1920), mother Charlotte,
                          brother Charles and sister Mildred.

                          One of the volumes in the Time-Life Series is about Frank
                          Teschemacher. The excellent booklet accompanying the records is
                          written by Marty Grosz. Here are some excerpts relevant to the
                          discussion about Hughes Panassie.

                          "This book [Panassie's 1934 'Le Jazz Hot'] described Teschmaker [sic]
                          as the greatest jazz clarinetist ever. More than that, he nominated a
                          long list of top clarinetists (and a curious one: It described the
                          little-known reed man Prince Robinson as 'one of the greatest' and
                          gave similar status to his great friend, the distinctly second-rate
                          Mezzrow) and then commented: 'Teschmaker [sic] ... is actually a
                          hundred times better than any of the others, white or black.' Panassie
                          went on for almost three pages in a panegyric that compared
                          Teschemacher favorably with everyone form Johnny Dodds to Johann
                          Sebastian Bach. Considering the clarinetist as a solosit, Panassie
                          said, 'it is impossible to find in Teschmaker [sic] the least fault.'
                          As an ensemble player 'he has an incredible intuition, a profound
                          understanding, an instinctive knowledge of how to put a note or phrase
                          in one place where it will restore the balance. By means of his force
                          and his inspiration, he sweeps the whole orchestra along with him.' It
                          was a rave, filled with hyperbole: "overflowing ardor,' 'lyric
                          eloquence,' 'expressive force.'

                          Alas it was all a mistake. In 1942, a contrite Panassie recanted his
                          effusive words about Teschmacher. In a new book, 'The Real Jazz,' he
                          acknowledged that he had not heard enough of the music at the time he
                          had written the first book; now he knew better. He still considered
                          Mezzrow a great clarinetist. But he had been grieviuosly misled about
                          Teschemacher, who had achieved his reputation 'unjustly,' never having
                          paid enough attention to the great New Orleans clarinetists. 'There
                          are too many choppy, rough places in his music," said Panasie. In
                          ensemble, he had, regrettably, 'a very mordant style.' Remove
                          Teschemacher from the hall of fame, said Panassie; he did not belong
                          there."

                          I imagine some will criticize Panassie for flip-flopping, for changing
                          his assessment of Teschemacher (and others as well). I would not if
                          his change of mind was based on an intellectual, objective evolution.
                          If there is one thing that is important in one's intellectual
                          development, it is to continously learn and, if necessary, modify
                          previous opinions and notions. However, I do criticize Panassie for
                          flip-flopping, not because of an intellectual developmnent that
                          improved his understanding, but because he developed a prejudice
                          against white jazz musicians and in favor of black jazz musicians.
                          Music criticism should be color-blind, based exclusively upon the
                          artistic qualities of the musician under study.

                          Albert


                          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "David Brown" <johnhaleysims@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Gilbert
                          >
                          > I want to thank you for your long and fascinating posts. They are most
                          > appreciated.
                          >
                          > We have done Arodin here and, I think, it was definitely proved by
                          Albert,
                          > if that can be proved, that he was white. I have just retrieved this
                          from
                          > the archive:-
                          >
                          >
                          > -- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@> wrote:
                          >
                          > I wrote to Wesley Charter, Sidney Arodin's nephew, and asked him
                          about his
                          > uncle's ancestry. He kindly responded promptly. Here is what he wrote.
                          >
                          > "My Uncle was white and French. Both of his parents were of French
                          descent.
                          > Of course, if you know any history of France, you will recall that
                          the Moors
                          > conquered Spain and parts of France and never returned to Africa. In
                          this
                          > sense, he might be considered to be part black, but that is a
                          stretch. [Here
                          > is a comment: As I understand it, Moors were Muslims, Arabs and Berbers,
                          > dark-skinned, but not necessarily black]. I was under the impression
                          that he
                          > was born in 1902 and I remember this because my father was born in
                          1903. He
                          > was married 3 times and had a daughter named Lillian (Regan)Arnondin who
                          > lived in Dallas, TX until her death several years ago. I don't
                          remember the
                          > names of all of his wives. Sidney had 3 sisters. My aunts Pauline,
                          Nora and
                          > my mom, Zoe. Many people of French descent claimed to be creole but
                          this was
                          > a common mistake still made by many. My understanding of the word
                          creole was
                          > a person of mixed French and Spanish decent.In regards to my
                          grandmother's
                          > last name before marriage, it was Jambon. Literally translated, this
                          means
                          > Ham in English. Her dad came over from Marseille France and died at
                          the age
                          > of 94 after retiring when he was 47. He subscribed to a Marseille
                          newspaper
                          > right up until the time he died."
                          >
                          > The racial attitude of Burke, Souchon et al is very hard to admire
                          and seems
                          > to negate ideas of great influence passing from black to white -- or
                          vice
                          > versa -- after the formative years of the music.
                          >
                          > I well understand your disillusionment with latter day revivalism.
                          You have
                          > not missed so much.
                          >
                          > Dave
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • David Brown
                          Many thanks Albert for such a substantial view. In 1954 Dictionnaire Tesch has a few more lines than Pee Wee but is summarised Much inspired by the N.O.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jun 30, 2008
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                            Many thanks Albert for such a substantial view.

                            In 1954 'Dictionnaire' Tesch has a few more lines than Pee Wee but is
                            summarised 'Much inspired by the N.O. clarinet players particularly Johnny
                            Dodds but never quite acquired their style.'

                            Mezz himself in 'Really The Blues ' has chunks of impossible verbatim
                            Teschspeak but says :-

                            'Tesch was very cynical and downhearted about our music ; he thought we'd go
                            to our graves without being appreciated.'

                            Most interesting :-

                            'All night long we'd play clarinet duets in the style of Jimmy Noone and Doc
                            Poston' which argues, as do our ears, that Noone was primary influence, not
                            Dodds.

                            What really amazes about H.P. was the arrogance, as an alien even, to
                            pontificate from a position of later admitted ignorance.


                            Dave



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Nick Dellow
                            I agree with much of what you say, Albert, and especially your last point about skin colour and jazz. Panassie s views on colour, though, are mild compared to
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jun 30, 2008
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                              I agree with much of what you say, Albert, and especially your last point
                              about skin colour and jazz. Panassie's views on colour, though, are mild
                              compared to certain recent writers on the subject!

                              Once, in the 1950s in Paris, a jazz fan made a derogatory remark about
                              white jazz musicians to Sidney Bechet, obviously thinking that Bechet would
                              be in agreement. However, Bechet tore into the poor guy, telling him how
                              some white jazzmen were amongst his best friends, many of whom he also
                              admired as musicians. But Bechet was no Uncle Tom: he also said that he
                              would never have left the USA for France if the racial barriers in America
                              hadn't existed and held him back from true financial as well as artistic
                              success. His knowledge of this fact still did not taint his ability to
                              appreciate the real worth of a musician, regardless of their colour. But
                              then Bechet always judged with his ears, never with his eyes.
                              John RT Davies said something very interesting about the development of
                              jazz to me once. He said: "If you take a guy with reasonable ears, who's
                              interested in jazz, and play him a record from the 1920s he would be able to
                              say, "oh yes, that's black" or "that's white". By the time you get to 1950,
                              the separation becomes less obvious. By the time you're into the mid-1960s,
                              there's no way of telling the difference aurally, simply because the
                              cross-semination and the absorption has created a unified language."


                              Nick

                              2008/6/30 Albert Haim <alberthaim@...>:
                              >
                              > In his American Dance Band Discography (1975 edition) and Jazz Records
                              > (1978 edition) Rust spells Frank's last name as Teschmacher. In his
                              > 2002 edition he spells it Teschemacher.
                              >
                              > The correct spelling is TESCHEMACHER. Frank appears in the 1910 and
                              > 1920 US censuses as Frank Teschemacher living with his father Charles
                              > (in Kansas City in 1910, in Chicago in 1920), mother Charlotte,
                              > brother Charles and sister Mildred.
                              >
                              > One of the volumes in the Time-Life Series is about Frank
                              > Teschemacher. The excellent booklet accompanying the records is
                              > written by Marty Grosz. Here are some excerpts relevant to the
                              > discussion about Hughes Panassie.
                              >
                              > "This book [Panassie's 1934 'Le Jazz Hot'] described Teschmaker [sic]
                              > as the greatest jazz clarinetist ever. More than that, he nominated a
                              > long list of top clarinetists (and a curious one: It described the
                              > little-known reed man Prince Robinson as 'one of the greatest' and
                              > gave similar status to his great friend, the distinctly second-rate
                              > Mezzrow) and then commented: 'Teschmaker [sic] ... is actually a
                              > hundred times better than any of the others, white or black.' Panassie
                              > went on for almost three pages in a panegyric that compared
                              > Teschemacher favorably with everyone form Johnny Dodds to Johann
                              > Sebastian Bach. Considering the clarinetist as a solosit, Panassie
                              > said, 'it is impossible to find in Teschmaker [sic] the least fault.'
                              > As an ensemble player 'he has an incredible intuition, a profound
                              > understanding, an instinctive knowledge of how to put a note or phrase
                              > in one place where it will restore the balance. By means of his force
                              > and his inspiration, he sweeps the whole orchestra along with him.' It
                              > was a rave, filled with hyperbole: "overflowing ardor,' 'lyric
                              > eloquence,' 'expressive force.'
                              >
                              > Alas it was all a mistake. In 1942, a contrite Panassie recanted his
                              > effusive words about Teschmacher. In a new book, 'The Real Jazz,' he
                              > acknowledged that he had not heard enough of the music at the time he
                              > had written the first book; now he knew better. He still considered
                              > Mezzrow a great clarinetist. But he had been grieviuosly misled about
                              > Teschemacher, who had achieved his reputation 'unjustly,' never having
                              > paid enough attention to the great New Orleans clarinetists. 'There
                              > are too many choppy, rough places in his music," said Panasie. In
                              > ensemble, he had, regrettably, 'a very mordant style.' Remove
                              > Teschemacher from the hall of fame, said Panassie; he did not belong
                              > there."
                              >
                              > I imagine some will criticize Panassie for flip-flopping, for changing
                              > his assessment of Teschemacher (and others as well). I would not if
                              > his change of mind was based on an intellectual, objective evolution.
                              > If there is one thing that is important in one's intellectual
                              > development, it is to continously learn and, if necessary, modify
                              > previous opinions and notions. However, I do criticize Panassie for
                              > flip-flopping, not because of an intellectual developmnent that
                              > improved his understanding, but because he developed a prejudice
                              > against white jazz musicians and in favor of black jazz musicians.
                              > Music criticism should be color-blind, based exclusively upon the
                              > artistic qualities of the musician under study.
                              >
                              > Albert
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Dan Van Landingham
                              I think Tesch was right in that regard in that due to his early death in 1932 he faded into history as a sad footnote.Rod Cless was a name I had read about but
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jun 30, 2008
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                                I think Tesch was right in that regard in that due to his early death in 1932 he faded into history as a sad footnote.Rod Cless was a name I had read about but I've never heard of
                                him until I read an article on him regarding his death in a fall I believe.William Thornton Blue was another one and I believe he had an impact in the early Benny Goodman.I heard
                                a touch of the growl Blue did in Goodman's 1931 Brunswick recording of "Someday Swee-
                                theart" by Joe Venuti-Eddie Lang and their All Star Orchestra.Goodman's solo from his 1934 recording of "Moonglow" on Columbia was another with Jack Teagarden and I believe
                                his brother Charlie on trumpet.Art Karle's tenor wasn't much.I have the latter on a mouldy,
                                beat up Columbia LP from the fifties.

                                --- On Mon, 6/30/08, David Brown <johnhaleysims@...> wrote:
                                From: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
                                Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Re: Ray Burke was Frank Teshmacher and Pee Wee Russell: TESCHEMACHER
                                To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 8:30 AM











                                Many thanks Albert for such a substantial view.



                                In 1954 'Dictionnaire' Tesch has a few more lines than Pee Wee but is

                                summarised 'Much inspired by the N.O. clarinet players particularly Johnny

                                Dodds but never quite acquired their style.'



                                Mezz himself in 'Really The Blues ' has chunks of impossible verbatim

                                Teschspeak but says :-



                                'Tesch was very cynical and downhearted about our music ; he thought we'd go

                                to our graves without being appreciated. '



                                Most interesting :-



                                'All night long we'd play clarinet duets in the style of Jimmy Noone and Doc

                                Poston' which argues, as do our ears, that Noone was primary influence, not

                                Dodds.



                                What really amazes about H.P. was the arrogance, as an alien even, to

                                pontificate from a position of later admitted ignorance.



                                Dave





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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Gilber M. Erskine
                                On April 28, 1928, Cless recorded 2 sides with Frank Teschemacher s
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jun 30, 2008
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                                  <<<I never heard of Rod Cless until I read an article on his death.---Dan Van Landingham>>>

                                  On April 28, 1928, Cless recorded 2 sides with Frank Teschemacher's Chicagoians on Brunswick. Neither side was released at the time. Singin The Blues was lost for all time, but Jazz Me Blues was subsequently issued on Milt Gabler's UHCA 61 in the '30s. 3 reeds-- Tesch, Rod, and Mezz Mezzrow, with a powerful rhythm section of Joe Sullivan, Eddie Condon, Jim Lannigan, and Gene Krupa.

                                  Rod Cless was also on all of the celebrated Muggsy Spanier Ragtimers sides in 1939.

                                  But my favorite is the Rod Cless Quartet recordings for Black & White on Sept 1, 1944 with Sterling Bose, James P. Johnson, and Pops Foster. Make Me A Pallet On the Floor, Froggie Moore, I Know That You Know, and, especially, the marvelous Have You Ever Felt That Way?
                                  -----GILBERT M. ERSKINE


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Dan Van Landingham
                                  To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 12:08 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Re: Ray Burke was Frank Teshmacher and Pee Wee Russell: TESCHEMACHER


                                  I think Tesch was right in that regard in that due to his early death in 1932 he faded into history as a sad footnote.Rod Cless was a name I had read about but I've never heard of
                                  him until I read an article on him regarding his death in a fall I believe.William Thornton Blue was another one and I believe he had an impact in the early Benny Goodman.I heard
                                  a touch of the growl Blue did in Goodman's 1931 Brunswick recording of "Someday Swee-
                                  theart" by Joe Venuti-Eddie Lang and their All Star Orchestra.Goodman's solo from his 1934 recording of "Moonglow" on Columbia was another with Jack Teagarden and I believe
                                  his brother Charlie on trumpet.Art Karle's tenor wasn't much.I have the latter on a mouldy,
                                  beat up Columbia LP from the fifties.

                                  --- On Mon, 6/30/08, David Brown <johnhaleysims@...> wrote:
                                  From: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
                                  Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Re: Ray Burke was Frank Teshmacher and Pee Wee Russell: TESCHEMACHER
                                  To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 8:30 AM

                                  Many thanks Albert for such a substantial view.

                                  In 1954 'Dictionnaire' Tesch has a few more lines than Pee Wee but is

                                  summarised 'Much inspired by the N.O. clarinet players particularly Johnny

                                  Dodds but never quite acquired their style.'

                                  Mezz himself in 'Really The Blues ' has chunks of impossible verbatim

                                  Teschspeak but says :-

                                  'Tesch was very cynical and downhearted about our music ; he thought we'd go

                                  to our graves without being appreciated. '

                                  Most interesting :-

                                  'All night long we'd play clarinet duets in the style of Jimmy Noone and Doc

                                  Poston' which argues, as do our ears, that Noone was primary influence, not

                                  Dodds.

                                  What really amazes about H.P. was the arrogance, as an alien even, to

                                  pontificate from a position of later admitted ignorance.

                                  Dave

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











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                                • Gilber M. Erskine
                                  Many Saturday nights 1947-48, Sam and Jackie
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jul 3, 2008
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                                    <<<Can you tell us more about Elmer, and why when you heard him, he was such a disaster?---Robert Greenwood>>>

                                    Many Saturday nights 1947-48, Sam and Jackie Hatcher, Fred and Ingrid King, and I went out to Manny's Tavern in a far northereastern suburb of New Orleans to hear George. Sam Hatcher was a record collector, and a big fan of Bunk Johnson. Fred King was an insurance salesman and talented drummer. George had Slow Drag, Joe Watkins, and Lawrence, a powerful rhythm section. The front line was Elmer and George.

                                    Ocassionally an out-of-town record collector would arrive and pay to have Jim Robinson hired to fill out the front line.

                                    Manny's Tavern was an attractive, fairly new building, air-conditioned, and not at all like the pug-ugly early clubs [Pete Lala's, etc] of the King Oliver and Fred Keppard days.

                                    Elmer Talbort worked as a dry cleaner/tailor in the day time. He was a big fellow, and there was nothing wrong with his personality. But he had severe embouchure problems, often muffing as many notes as he hit them, and his tone was nowhere near as good as, say, Kid Howard or Herb Moran.

                                    I haven't heard the 1950 Doc Souchon records that you mentioned. Are they still available?
                                    --------GILBERT M. ERSKINE


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Robert Greenwood
                                    To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 4:15 AM
                                    Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Ray Burke was Frank Teshmacher and Pee Wee Russell


                                    --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Gilber M. Erskine" <gerskine@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > In those days, Raymond had not yet begun his extensive gigs with
                                    blacks, though once we took him out to Manny's Tavern to sit in with
                                    the George Lewis group [a fantastic rhythm section, but Elmer Talbot on
                                    trumpet was a disaster].

                                    This is really fascinating stuff, Gilbert. Thanks for sharing it with
                                    us. For all our theorising & arguing, there is no substitute for the
                                    first-hand eyewitness account.
                                    I am interested in what you say about Elmer Talbot (or is it Talbert?).
                                    Sam Charters, in his book Jazz New Orleans, describes Elmer as a
                                    tasteless screamer. This is certainly not borne out on any of the
                                    recordings that feature him. The George Lewis Jam Session from 1950
                                    (recorded by Doc Souchon) is among the very greatest of all New Orleans
                                    sessions. Can you tell us more about Elmer and why, when you heard him,
                                    he was such a "disaster"?
                                    Robert Greenwood.






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                                  • Robert Greenwood
                                    ... a big fellow, and there was nothing wrong with his personality. But he had severe embouchure problems, often muffing as many notes as he hit them, and his
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jul 3, 2008
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                                      >
                                      > Elmer Talbort worked as a dry cleaner/tailor in the day time. He was
                                      a big fellow, and there was nothing wrong with his personality. But he
                                      had severe embouchure problems, often muffing as many notes as he hit
                                      them, and his tone was nowhere near as good as, say, Kid Howard or Herb
                                      Moran.
                                      >
                                      > I haven't heard the 1950 Doc Souchon records that you mentioned. Are
                                      they still available?
                                      > --------GILBERT M. ERSKINE

                                      Thanks for that, Gilbert.
                                      The 1950 George Lewis Jam Session (and what an inappropriate title that
                                      is) is available on AMCD-104. Talbot plays beautifully on this session
                                      and it shows the Lewis Band at its peak. Doc Souchon doesn't play on
                                      the session but he was responsible for recording it. There's more
                                      Talbot on AMCD-038 which is made up of radio broadcasts from 1949 and
                                      1950; also highly recommended.
                                      Robert Greenwood
                                    • David Brown
                                      Many thanks again Gilbert for your personal recollections. I have on the 1950 Souchon Georges with Talbert now. An old Storyville -- STCD 6019 -- dubbed from
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jul 3, 2008
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                                        Many thanks again Gilbert for your personal recollections.

                                        I have on the 1950 Souchon Georges with Talbert now. An old Storyville --
                                        STCD 6019 -- dubbed from LP and maybe it has re-emerged in better quality.

                                        Even better Talbert, and better recorded, on Herbert Otto's Party AMCD74
                                        from 1949.

                                        On both sessions , and on a 1950 Good Time Jazz George session, Coo-coo
                                        plays extremely well, a driving, minimal, dynamically and tonally varied
                                        lead. He sounds like nobody else exactly and shows no chop problems. The
                                        1949 session has him soloing at length and I especially cite the wonderfully
                                        varied work into metal derby on 'Bucket Got A Hole'.

                                        I find reports of 'illness' and maybe to be inferred that he suffered from
                                        the same affliction as Howard, who could also be wayward and inconsistent.

                                        Anybody know the source of the 'Coo Coo' ?

                                        Dave




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Robert Greenwood
                                        Thanks, Dave, for reminding us of the GTJ sides, and the excellent Herbert Otto s Party session which includes tracks by the George Lewis Band with Talbot, and
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jul 3, 2008
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                                          Thanks, Dave, for reminding us of the GTJ sides, and the excellent
                                          Herbert Otto's Party session which includes tracks by the George Lewis
                                          Band with Talbot, and a similar band featuring Herb Morand and Albert
                                          Burbank. Most of the tracks were recorded by Otto, an enthusiast who
                                          also recorded Big Eye Louis Nelson at Luthjen's and Herb Morand with
                                          Andrew Morgan at Mama Lou's. Other tracks at the Otto's Party were
                                          recorded by my namesake, Robert Greenwood, a librarian at Tulane.
                                          Gilbert: Were you by any chance a guest at this famous party? Did you
                                          know Herbert Otto?
                                          Robert Greenwood.
                                        • Gilber M. Erskine
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jul 3, 2008
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                                            <<<Gilbert- Were you by any chancea guest at Herbert Otto's famous party where Tulane librarian Robert Greenwood recorded George Lewis and Elmer Talbot. Did you know Herbert Otto?---Robert Greenwood>>>

                                            No, I was not at that party. I was once invited to a gathering at Greenwood's apartment in the Quarter, the circumstances I no longer remember, though I believe Dick Allen, who had just arrived from Atlanta, was there. Greenwood had the enormously charming Old South good manners, impossible to describe, except that he radiated good will toward everyone he came in contact with.

                                            Herbert Otto was a graduate student at Tulane, and his apartment in the Quarter was famous for gatherings of every type of artistic people you could imagine--- literary people, abstract art painters, musicians, the whole works. Very bohemian. I was there often.

                                            Luthjen's, where Big Eye played, was a neighborhood club just to the northeast of the Quarter. The patrons were elderly people who liked waltzes. The out of town collectors who went there only went out of respect for one of the legendary figures in N.O. jazz. The music played there was totally uninteresting, and I was only there a couple of times.

                                            I was in N.O. on a short vacation visit in the summer of 1946, and ran into Sam Rudivitch and Bill Bowers from New York. I visited George Lewis with them. Sam wrote to me later, saying that he and Bill had discovered Emile Barnes, and were so impressed that they recorded him. He said to keep it quiet that he prefered Emile to George.

                                            A year or two later, I was invited, with a few others, to a First Communion breakfast for George's daughter. I can tell you that George's wife was a first class New Orleans chef, her red beans and rice was incredibly delicious, so good that I thought it was the whole meal, but it was only the first course. It was followed by chicken and shrimp gumbo, and there are no people on earth that can do gumbo the way they do in N.O.
                                            -----GILBERT M. ERSKINE
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Robert Greenwood
                                            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 12:14 PM
                                            Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Elmer Talbert


                                            Thanks, Dave, for reminding us of the GTJ sides, and the excellent
                                            Herbert Otto's Party session which includes tracks by the George Lewis
                                            Band with Talbot, and a similar band featuring Herb Morand and Albert
                                            Burbank. Most of the tracks were recorded by Otto, an enthusiast who
                                            also recorded Big Eye Louis Nelson at Luthjen's and Herb Morand with
                                            Andrew Morgan at Mama Lou's. Other tracks at the Otto's Party were
                                            recorded by my namesake, Robert Greenwood, a librarian at Tulane.
                                            Gilbert: Were you by any chance a guest at this famous party? Did you
                                            know Herbert Otto?
                                            Robert Greenwood.






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                                          • fraser540021
                                            All fascinating stuff. I ve read the quote before about Jim Robinson,can anyone remind me of the source? Re Talbert s illness ,Charters mentions strokes.
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jul 4, 2008
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                                              All fascinating stuff. I've read the quote before about Jim
                                              Robinson,can anyone remind me of the source?

                                              Re Talbert's 'illness',Charters mentions strokes.

                                              There seems to be a vast divergence of opinion about Talbert's
                                              ability,George Lewia,seemed happy with him, Doc Souchon compares him
                                              with Oliver.

                                              Have sorted out the AM Cd's ,38/74/85 & 104 and will have a listen
                                              tonight.Note from a brief read that mr erskine gets a mention in one of
                                              the sleeve notes.

                                              Marco, thanks for the info re Edinburgh,had looked so many times at
                                              their website in the past and found it still featuring 2007 that I kind
                                              of gave up on it,should have remembered and looked there first.

                                              Fraser
                                            • Robert Greenwood
                                              ... party where Tulane librarian Robert Greenwood recorded George Lewis and Elmer Talbot. Did you know Herbert Otto?---Robert Greenwood ... Gilbert: Thank
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jul 4, 2008
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                                                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Gilber M. Erskine" <gerskine@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > <<<Gilbert- Were you by any chancea guest at Herbert Otto's famous
                                                party where Tulane librarian Robert Greenwood recorded George Lewis and
                                                Elmer Talbot. Did you know Herbert Otto?---Robert Greenwood>>>
                                                >
                                                > No, I was not at that party.

                                                Gilbert: Thank you so much for this fascinating & detailed reply. When
                                                are you going to write your memoirs?

                                                Robert G.
                                              • fraser540021
                                                I gather from an old issue of Footnote , that the nickname came from a girlfriend of Elmer s,who apparently was known as Coo Coo.Elmer s friends decided to
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Jul 6, 2008
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                                                  I gather from an old issue of "Footnote", that the nickname came from a
                                                  girlfriend of Elmer's,who apparently was known as Coo Coo.Elmer's
                                                  friends decided to give him the same nickname.

                                                  Apparently according to George Lewis,Elmer's talents were on the
                                                  decline due to health issues - heart problems,at the time of the
                                                  recordings.George Lewis still seemed to have rated him highly.

                                                  Both Lionel Ferbos and Kid Sheik spoke highly of Talbert's talents as a
                                                  trumpet player.

                                                  Fraser
                                                • yves francois
                                                     If the evidence of the recordings issued both on 78 s and private recordings that have come up to life (recently mostly on American Music) are any
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Jul 6, 2008
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                                                       If the evidence of the recordings issued both on 78's and private recordings that have come up to life (recently mostly on American Music) are any indication, all I can say, if that is decline, I wonder what he was in the 30's, terrific , strong, even savage trumpeter (health issues did not make him lose his drive, at least on what recorded evidence I have heard). I enjoy his tough rough barrelhouse style very much, and he sounds very good on the recent AM CD with Lewis, any other recordings besides the AM CD's (Otto's party is incredible), and the 78's? thanks (and does anyone play like that today in NOLA?), Yves Francois

                                                    --- On Sun, 7/6/08, fraser540021 <fraser.mccombe@...> wrote:
                                                    From: fraser540021 <fraser.mccombe@...>
                                                    Subject: [RedHotJazz] Elmer Talbert
                                                    To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:54 AM











                                                    I gather from an old issue of "Footnote", that the nickname came from a

                                                    girlfriend of Elmer's,who apparently was known as Coo Coo.Elmer's

                                                    friends decided to give him the same nickname.



                                                    Apparently according to George Lewis,Elmer' s talents were on the

                                                    decline due to health issues - heart problems,at the time of the

                                                    recordings.George Lewis still seemed to have rated him highly.



                                                    Both Lionel Ferbos and Kid Sheik spoke highly of Talbert's talents as a

                                                    trumpet player.



                                                    Fraser





























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