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Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: Jelly Roll Morton lecture

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  • Tony Standish
    Welll, I googled Mamie D. and you can get her DVDs on the net. So she must exist Did the lady deny the existence of Black Benny, too? Maybe he wasn t a bad,
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 6, 2008
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      Welll, I googled Mamie D. and you can get her DVDs on the net. So she must
      exist Did the lady deny the existence of Black Benny, too? Maybe he wasn't a
      bad, bad man! Maybe he didn't exist either..
      Robert - I hope the seats were comfortable, and was there sherry?
      And who were those white collectors, 'way back then? Even Derrick
      Stewart-Baxter would have been a mere babe, or a glint in his daddy's eye.
      Sometimes our burden is so hard to bear....
      Tony Standish
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Robert Greenwood" <robertgreenwood_54uk@...>
      To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:37 PM
      Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Jelly Roll Morton lecture


      > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Marco Romano" <m15romano@...>
      > wrote:
      >>
      >> Thank you Mr. Greenwood.
      >>
      >> I hope that you will be attending the event so that you can give a
      >> verdict of the lecture.
      >>
      >> Marco Romano.
      >>
      >
      > There's not a lot to report, Marco. I suspect that what I heard last
      > night was a preview of what we will hear tomorrow evening on Radio 4.
      > Marybeth Hamilton is an historian and doesn't even seem particularly
      > interested in, or to have any great love for, the music. She
      > certainly did not discuss Morton's music and concentrated instead on
      > the stories of gamblers, hoodlums, and sharp dressers, and played
      > substantial extracts from the Lomax interviews. I suspect that, as an
      > academic, she has found in the Morton Library of Congress recordings
      > a Subject with a capital S. Perhaps I am cynical, but this all helps
      > to retain her academic tenure and, after all, her audience is
      > probably a bunch of students and other academics with no interest
      > whatsoever in the likes of Jelly Roll Morton. Her interest in Morton
      > seems not to extend beyond the LoC sessions which she seems to treat
      > as a sociological phenomenon. Alarm bells rang for me when, at the
      > end of her lecture, no questions from the floor were invited. On the
      > whole, she was very patronising about the interest shown in New
      > Orleans music and viewed it as mere romanticism. We heard the usual
      > stuff about how the Red Hot Peppers sides were highly prized by white
      > collectors but were a matter of indifference to African-Americans.
      > Oh, and she implied that Mamie Desdumes was maybe a figment of
      > Jelly's colourful imagination.
      > My verdict is that, with so much real expert knowledge around, a much
      > better, more informed, and more sympathetic lecture could have been
      > given, but not by Dr Hamilton.
      >
      > Robert Greenwood
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Robert Greenwood
      ... Hahaha. No, Tony, the seats were quite uncomfortable and there was no sherry and no canapés. She did say that many of the LoC recordings were unplayable
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 6, 2008
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        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Standish" <mojohand@...> wrote:

        > Robert - I hope the seats were comfortable, and was there sherry?

        > Sometimes our burden is so hard to bear....
        > Tony Standish

        Hahaha. No, Tony, the seats were quite uncomfortable and there was no
        sherry and no canapés. She did say that many of the LoC recordings were
        unplayable on the BBC but we were not treated to any of the unplayables
        last night, either. I look forward to her lecture on Speckled Red's The
        Dirtier Dozens and The Dirtiest Dozens…
        Robert
      • Marco Romano
        Hello Mr. Greenwood. Thank you very much for taking time out to give all of us on this group your erudite version of the lecture. In my opinion Marybeth
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 6, 2008
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          Hello Mr. Greenwood.

          Thank you very much for taking time out to give all of us on this
          group your erudite version of the lecture.

          In my opinion Marybeth Hamilton could not be a very good historian if
          she discounts Mamie Desdunes as being a real person. There is a whole
          lot of information by Mr. Peter Hanley about her and her family at,

          http://www.doctorjazz.co.uk/portnewor.html

          I am going to make an attempt to listen to the BBC radio program on
          Sunday. Thank you.

          Marco Romano.

          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Greenwood"
          <robertgreenwood_54uk@...> wrote:
          >
          > There's not a lot to report, Marco. I suspect that what I heard
          last
          > night was a preview of what we will hear tomorrow evening on Radio
          4.
          > Marybeth Hamilton is an historian and doesn't even seem
          particularly
          > interested in, or to have any great love for, the music. She
          > certainly did not discuss Morton's music and concentrated instead
          on
          > the stories of gamblers, hoodlums, and sharp dressers, and played
          > substantial extracts from the Lomax interviews. I suspect that, as
          an
          > academic, she has found in the Morton Library of Congress
          recordings
          > a Subject with a capital S. Perhaps I am cynical, but this all
          helps
          > to retain her academic tenure and, after all, her audience is
          > probably a bunch of students and other academics with no interest
          > whatsoever in the likes of Jelly Roll Morton. Her interest in
          Morton
          > seems not to extend beyond the LoC sessions which she seems to
          treat
          > as a sociological phenomenon. Alarm bells rang for me when, at the
          > end of her lecture, no questions from the floor were invited. On
          the
          > whole, she was very patronising about the interest shown in New
          > Orleans music and viewed it as mere romanticism. We heard the usual
          > stuff about how the Red Hot Peppers sides were highly prized by
          white
          > collectors but were a matter of indifference to African-Americans.
          > Oh, and she implied that Mamie Desdumes was maybe a figment of
          > Jelly's colourful imagination.
          > My verdict is that, with so much real expert knowledge around, a
          much
          > better, more informed, and more sympathetic lecture could have been
          > given, but not by Dr Hamilton.
          >
          > Robert Greenwood
          >
        • Robert Greenwood
          ... Dr Hamilton gave no indication whatever that she had looked into Mike Meddings excellent web site or had taken into account the invaluable research work
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 6, 2008
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            --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Marco Romano" <m15romano@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Mr. Greenwood.
            >
            > Thank you very much for taking time out to give all of us on this
            > group your erudite version of the lecture.
            >
            > In my opinion Marybeth Hamilton could not be a very good historian if
            > she discounts Mamie Desdunes as being a real person. There is a whole
            > lot of information by Mr. Peter Hanley about her and her family at,
            >
            > http://www.doctorjazz.co.uk/portnewor.html
            >

            Dr Hamilton gave no indication whatever that she had looked into Mike
            Meddings' excellent web site or had taken into account the invaluable
            research work found there, but as someone hidden away in a university
            department, she is never likely to be called to account by any of her
            colleagues. I do not dismiss academia, by the way. I am a graduate
            myself and have a daughter at university. I just think that academic
            standards should be higher and that research should be thorough. Mamie
            Desdunes last night was written off as a three-fingered prostitute
            Jelly had known in his youth. Hamilton's tone implied that maybe
            Desdunes never existed.
            Robert
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