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Re: Jelly Roll Morton lecture

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  • Robert Greenwood
    ... There s not a lot to report, Marco. I suspect that what I heard last night was a preview of what we will hear tomorrow evening on Radio 4. Marybeth
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 6, 2008
      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Marco Romano" <m15romano@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Thank you Mr. Greenwood.
      >
      > I hope that you will be attending the event so that you can give a
      > verdict of the lecture.
      >
      > Marco Romano.
      >

      There's not a lot to report, Marco. I suspect that what I heard last
      night was a preview of what we will hear tomorrow evening on Radio 4.
      Marybeth Hamilton is an historian and doesn't even seem particularly
      interested in, or to have any great love for, the music. She
      certainly did not discuss Morton's music and concentrated instead on
      the stories of gamblers, hoodlums, and sharp dressers, and played
      substantial extracts from the Lomax interviews. I suspect that, as an
      academic, she has found in the Morton Library of Congress recordings
      a Subject with a capital S. Perhaps I am cynical, but this all helps
      to retain her academic tenure and, after all, her audience is
      probably a bunch of students and other academics with no interest
      whatsoever in the likes of Jelly Roll Morton. Her interest in Morton
      seems not to extend beyond the LoC sessions which she seems to treat
      as a sociological phenomenon. Alarm bells rang for me when, at the
      end of her lecture, no questions from the floor were invited. On the
      whole, she was very patronising about the interest shown in New
      Orleans music and viewed it as mere romanticism. We heard the usual
      stuff about how the Red Hot Peppers sides were highly prized by white
      collectors but were a matter of indifference to African-Americans.
      Oh, and she implied that Mamie Desdumes was maybe a figment of
      Jelly's colourful imagination.
      My verdict is that, with so much real expert knowledge around, a much
      better, more informed, and more sympathetic lecture could have been
      given, but not by Dr Hamilton.

      Robert Greenwood
    • Tony Standish
      Welll, I googled Mamie D. and you can get her DVDs on the net. So she must exist Did the lady deny the existence of Black Benny, too? Maybe he wasn t a bad,
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 6, 2008
        Welll, I googled Mamie D. and you can get her DVDs on the net. So she must
        exist Did the lady deny the existence of Black Benny, too? Maybe he wasn't a
        bad, bad man! Maybe he didn't exist either..
        Robert - I hope the seats were comfortable, and was there sherry?
        And who were those white collectors, 'way back then? Even Derrick
        Stewart-Baxter would have been a mere babe, or a glint in his daddy's eye.
        Sometimes our burden is so hard to bear....
        Tony Standish
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Robert Greenwood" <robertgreenwood_54uk@...>
        To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:37 PM
        Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Jelly Roll Morton lecture


        > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Marco Romano" <m15romano@...>
        > wrote:
        >>
        >> Thank you Mr. Greenwood.
        >>
        >> I hope that you will be attending the event so that you can give a
        >> verdict of the lecture.
        >>
        >> Marco Romano.
        >>
        >
        > There's not a lot to report, Marco. I suspect that what I heard last
        > night was a preview of what we will hear tomorrow evening on Radio 4.
        > Marybeth Hamilton is an historian and doesn't even seem particularly
        > interested in, or to have any great love for, the music. She
        > certainly did not discuss Morton's music and concentrated instead on
        > the stories of gamblers, hoodlums, and sharp dressers, and played
        > substantial extracts from the Lomax interviews. I suspect that, as an
        > academic, she has found in the Morton Library of Congress recordings
        > a Subject with a capital S. Perhaps I am cynical, but this all helps
        > to retain her academic tenure and, after all, her audience is
        > probably a bunch of students and other academics with no interest
        > whatsoever in the likes of Jelly Roll Morton. Her interest in Morton
        > seems not to extend beyond the LoC sessions which she seems to treat
        > as a sociological phenomenon. Alarm bells rang for me when, at the
        > end of her lecture, no questions from the floor were invited. On the
        > whole, she was very patronising about the interest shown in New
        > Orleans music and viewed it as mere romanticism. We heard the usual
        > stuff about how the Red Hot Peppers sides were highly prized by white
        > collectors but were a matter of indifference to African-Americans.
        > Oh, and she implied that Mamie Desdumes was maybe a figment of
        > Jelly's colourful imagination.
        > My verdict is that, with so much real expert knowledge around, a much
        > better, more informed, and more sympathetic lecture could have been
        > given, but not by Dr Hamilton.
        >
        > Robert Greenwood
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Robert Greenwood
        ... Hahaha. No, Tony, the seats were quite uncomfortable and there was no sherry and no canapés. She did say that many of the LoC recordings were unplayable
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 6, 2008
          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Standish" <mojohand@...> wrote:

          > Robert - I hope the seats were comfortable, and was there sherry?

          > Sometimes our burden is so hard to bear....
          > Tony Standish

          Hahaha. No, Tony, the seats were quite uncomfortable and there was no
          sherry and no canapés. She did say that many of the LoC recordings were
          unplayable on the BBC but we were not treated to any of the unplayables
          last night, either. I look forward to her lecture on Speckled Red's The
          Dirtier Dozens and The Dirtiest Dozens…
          Robert
        • Marco Romano
          Hello Mr. Greenwood. Thank you very much for taking time out to give all of us on this group your erudite version of the lecture. In my opinion Marybeth
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 6, 2008
            Hello Mr. Greenwood.

            Thank you very much for taking time out to give all of us on this
            group your erudite version of the lecture.

            In my opinion Marybeth Hamilton could not be a very good historian if
            she discounts Mamie Desdunes as being a real person. There is a whole
            lot of information by Mr. Peter Hanley about her and her family at,

            http://www.doctorjazz.co.uk/portnewor.html

            I am going to make an attempt to listen to the BBC radio program on
            Sunday. Thank you.

            Marco Romano.

            --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Greenwood"
            <robertgreenwood_54uk@...> wrote:
            >
            > There's not a lot to report, Marco. I suspect that what I heard
            last
            > night was a preview of what we will hear tomorrow evening on Radio
            4.
            > Marybeth Hamilton is an historian and doesn't even seem
            particularly
            > interested in, or to have any great love for, the music. She
            > certainly did not discuss Morton's music and concentrated instead
            on
            > the stories of gamblers, hoodlums, and sharp dressers, and played
            > substantial extracts from the Lomax interviews. I suspect that, as
            an
            > academic, she has found in the Morton Library of Congress
            recordings
            > a Subject with a capital S. Perhaps I am cynical, but this all
            helps
            > to retain her academic tenure and, after all, her audience is
            > probably a bunch of students and other academics with no interest
            > whatsoever in the likes of Jelly Roll Morton. Her interest in
            Morton
            > seems not to extend beyond the LoC sessions which she seems to
            treat
            > as a sociological phenomenon. Alarm bells rang for me when, at the
            > end of her lecture, no questions from the floor were invited. On
            the
            > whole, she was very patronising about the interest shown in New
            > Orleans music and viewed it as mere romanticism. We heard the usual
            > stuff about how the Red Hot Peppers sides were highly prized by
            white
            > collectors but were a matter of indifference to African-Americans.
            > Oh, and she implied that Mamie Desdumes was maybe a figment of
            > Jelly's colourful imagination.
            > My verdict is that, with so much real expert knowledge around, a
            much
            > better, more informed, and more sympathetic lecture could have been
            > given, but not by Dr Hamilton.
            >
            > Robert Greenwood
            >
          • Robert Greenwood
            ... Dr Hamilton gave no indication whatever that she had looked into Mike Meddings excellent web site or had taken into account the invaluable research work
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 6, 2008
              --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Marco Romano" <m15romano@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Mr. Greenwood.
              >
              > Thank you very much for taking time out to give all of us on this
              > group your erudite version of the lecture.
              >
              > In my opinion Marybeth Hamilton could not be a very good historian if
              > she discounts Mamie Desdunes as being a real person. There is a whole
              > lot of information by Mr. Peter Hanley about her and her family at,
              >
              > http://www.doctorjazz.co.uk/portnewor.html
              >

              Dr Hamilton gave no indication whatever that she had looked into Mike
              Meddings' excellent web site or had taken into account the invaluable
              research work found there, but as someone hidden away in a university
              department, she is never likely to be called to account by any of her
              colleagues. I do not dismiss academia, by the way. I am a graduate
              myself and have a daughter at university. I just think that academic
              standards should be higher and that research should be thorough. Mamie
              Desdunes last night was written off as a three-fingered prostitute
              Jelly had known in his youth. Hamilton's tone implied that maybe
              Desdunes never existed.
              Robert
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