Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Another obscure clarinetist

Expand Messages
  • spacelights
    Preston Jackson refers to him simply as Balls ( Trombone Man p 193), at the start of a list of clarinettists specifically *not* from New Orleans. I seem to
    Message 1 of 8 , May 5, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Preston Jackson refers to him simply as Balls ('Trombone Man' p 193),
      at the start of a list of clarinettists specifically *not* from New
      Orleans. I seem to recall another (unindexed) reference to him in the
      book, not certain though.

      I quite enjoy the Morton's King's Of Jazz sides, feel they've been
      unnecessarily lambasted in the past, perhaps by conservatory standards
      or because they're not "toe tappers." The "High Society" may be
      slightly closer to its French cotillion origins than hotter versions
      like Oliver's.

      In 'Mr. Jelly Lord', Laurie Wright mentions the notion that Balls was
      Horace George, who recorded in New York accompanied by Clarence
      Williams around this time. The result (OKeh 8164) has been split
      between two Document reissues: 'Vocal Duets' (DOCD-5526) and 'Too
      Late, Too Late Vol. 9' (DOCD-5590). I've heard the latter ("The Meal
      Is Low In The Barrel Blues"): its clarinet style doesn't particularly
      resemble that on the Kings Of Jazz. The other side--"Emancipation Day
      in Georgia"--might provide a better example. Horace George was
      mentioned in the Chicago Defender on September 27, 1924 ('Storyville
      2002-3' p 5).

      > As far as I know Lee Collins is the only source for this personnel
      or for
      > the existence of this musician. Does anyone know better?
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Referring to his session with Jelly Roll Morton, Collins guesses that
      > > clarinetist "Balls Ball" must have been from New Orleans due to his
      > > familiarity with the High Society set piece. Is there any more
      information on
      > > this obscure (perhaps deservedly so) musician?
    • Michael Rader
      It s interesting that Jackson should remember him at all, since the Kings of Jazz sides have Roy Palmer rather than Jackson on trombone. Apparently a musician
      Message 2 of 8 , May 5, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        It's interesting that Jackson should remember him at all, since the Kings of Jazz sides have Roy Palmer rather than Jackson on trombone. Apparently a musician known to his contemporaries as "Balls" was a member of the Morton-Handy Band. This is from a note on Mike Meddings' doctorjazz.co.uk site, which quotes an article by Paul Edouard Miller in the 1946 Esquire Jazz Book.

        Is anything known about Horace George? Was there clarinetist surnamed Ball?

        The Kings of Jazz are marred somewhat by the lack of balance, both between front line and rhythm (Morton alone) and recording set-up - the alto sax tends to be overbearing, and one wonders why Lee Collins didn't remember *him*. The solo on "High Society" is negotiated quite well with a rather "sweet" tone. The best reissue of these sides to date would be the French Média 7 "Kings of Jazz". These incidentally have a note that there might be a second cornetist on "Weary Blues". The version on the RedHotJazz site is very obviously from an original and has plenty of "noise".

        Michael Rader



        > Preston Jackson refers to him simply as Balls ('Trombone Man' p 193),
        > at the start of a list of clarinettists specifically *not* from New
        > Orleans. I seem to recall another (unindexed) reference to him in the
        > book, not certain though.
        >
        > I quite enjoy the Morton's King's Of Jazz sides, feel they've been
        > unnecessarily lambasted in the past, perhaps by conservatory standards
        > or because they're not "toe tappers." The "High Society" may be
        > slightly closer to its French cotillion origins than hotter versions
        > like Oliver's.
        >
        > In 'Mr. Jelly Lord', Laurie Wright mentions the notion that Balls was
        > Horace George, who recorded in New York accompanied by Clarence
        > Williams around this time. The result (OKeh 8164) has been split
        > between two Document reissues: 'Vocal Duets' (DOCD-5526) and 'Too
        > Late, Too Late Vol. 9' (DOCD-5590). I've heard the latter ("The Meal
        > Is Low In The Barrel Blues"): its clarinet style doesn't particularly
        > resemble that on the Kings Of Jazz. The other side--"Emancipation Day
        > in Georgia"--might provide a better example. Horace George was
        > mentioned in the Chicago Defender on September 27, 1924 ('Storyville
        > 2002-3' p 5).
        >
        > > As far as I know Lee Collins is the only source for this personnel
        > or for
        > > the existence of this musician. Does anyone know better?
        > >
        > >
        > > >
        > > > Referring to his session with Jelly Roll Morton, Collins guesses
        > that
        > > > clarinetist "Balls Ball" must have been from New Orleans due to
        > his
        > > > familiarity with the High Society set piece. Is there any more
        > information on
        > > > this obscure (perhaps deservedly so) musician?
        >
        >


        _____________________________________________________________________
        Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
        http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066
      • Howard Rye
        ... Quite a lot, but it doesn t seem to add up to biography. Details of several associations are noted in the Document issues covering his work. On DOCD5590,
        Message 3 of 8 , May 6, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          > Is anything known about Horace George? asks Michael Rader.

          Quite a lot, but it doesn't seem to add up to biography. Details of several
          associations are noted in the Document issues covering his work.

          On DOCD5590, Guido van Rijn reports that he was another performer of the
          playing three clarinets at a time trick, had been orchestra leader for Mamie
          Smith, and had worked with Tyus and Tyus off record as well as on, which I
          also discovered when writing the notes for DOCD 5526. As already reported he
          plays clarinet only on OKeh 6134. Horace George's Jubilee Harmonizers on
          Paramount are just a vocal group. He played the concertina and therefore is
          probably his own accompanist on the unissued Vocalion coupling by Elder
          George. What all this adds up to is a picture of a vaudevillian rather than
          a committed jazz musician. The ultimate source of all this information is
          the African-American press.

          He doesn't seem to have been mentioned once in the entire existence of
          Storyville magazine. Not even in 'Pieces of the Jigsaw'.

          Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
          howard@...
          Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
        • Dan Van Landingham
          A quick note on Jelly Roll:some of the 78 albums I was given at a garage sale just down the road from where I live,were on Bluebird from the late 30s.I know
          Message 4 of 8 , May 6, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            A quick note on Jelly Roll:some of the 78 albums I was given at a garage sale just down the
            road from where I live,were on Bluebird from the late '30s.I know that around 1939,RCA rele-
            ased sides by Satchmo,The Mound City Blue Blowers and others on Bluebird.

            Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:
            It's interesting that Jackson should remember him at all, since the Kings of Jazz sides have Roy Palmer rather than Jackson on trombone. Apparently a musician known to his contemporaries as "Balls" was a member of the Morton-Handy Band. This is from a note on Mike Meddings' doctorjazz.co.uk site, which quotes an article by Paul Edouard Miller in the 1946 Esquire Jazz Book.

            Is anything known about Horace George? Was there clarinetist surnamed Ball?

            The Kings of Jazz are marred somewhat by the lack of balance, both between front line and rhythm (Morton alone) and recording set-up - the alto sax tends to be overbearing, and one wonders why Lee Collins didn't remember *him*. The solo on "High Society" is negotiated quite well with a rather "sweet" tone. The best reissue of these sides to date would be the French Média 7 "Kings of Jazz". These incidentally have a note that there might be a second cornetist on "Weary Blues". The version on the RedHotJazz site is very obviously from an original and has plenty of "noise".

            Michael Rader



            > Preston Jackson refers to him simply as Balls ('Trombone Man' p 193),
            > at the start of a list of clarinettists specifically *not* from New
            > Orleans. I seem to recall another (unindexed) reference to him in the
            > book, not certain though.
            >
            > I quite enjoy the Morton's King's Of Jazz sides, feel they've been
            > unnecessarily lambasted in the past, perhaps by conservatory standards
            > or because they're not "toe tappers." The "High Society" may be
            > slightly closer to its French cotillion origins than hotter versions
            > like Oliver's.
            >
            > In 'Mr. Jelly Lord', Laurie Wright mentions the notion that Balls was
            > Horace George, who recorded in New York accompanied by Clarence
            > Williams around this time. The result (OKeh 8164) has been split
            > between two Document reissues: 'Vocal Duets' (DOCD-5526) and 'Too
            > Late, Too Late Vol. 9' (DOCD-5590). I've heard the latter ("The Meal
            > Is Low In The Barrel Blues"): its clarinet style doesn't particularly
            > resemble that on the Kings Of Jazz. The other side--"Emancipation Day
            > in Georgia"--might provide a better example. Horace George was
            > mentioned in the Chicago Defender on September 27, 1924 ('Storyville
            > 2002-3' p 5).
            >
            > > As far as I know Lee Collins is the only source for this personnel
            > or for
            > > the existence of this musician. Does anyone know better?
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > > Referring to his session with Jelly Roll Morton, Collins guesses
            > that
            > > > clarinetist "Balls Ball" must have been from New Orleans due to
            > his
            > > > familiarity with the High Society set piece. Is there any more
            > information on
            > > > this obscure (perhaps deservedly so) musician?
            >
            >


            _____________________________________________________________________
            Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
            http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066


            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links






            ---------------------------------
            Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • spacelights
            Here s a bit more about Horace George, from Tom Lord s Clarence Williams : With his Jazz Band at the Grand Theatre, May 7, 1921 (Chicago Defender) An advert
            Message 5 of 8 , May 10, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Here's a bit more about Horace George, from Tom Lord's 'Clarence
              Williams':

              With his Jazz Band at the Grand Theatre, May 7, 1921 (Chicago Defender)

              An advert for musical instruments mentions a "Mr. Horace George" as a
              representative for the company [not named] (CD, May 26, 1923)

              Late announcement: "Horace George has written 'Meal's Low in the
              Barrell' and 'If I Live And Nothin' Happens' --- which are to be
              published by Clarence Williams' Company in New York" (CD, December 14,
              1929)

              Credited as composer on:

              Emancipation Day In Dixie*
              Hard Trials
              If I Live And Nothin' Don't Happen
              Meal's Low in the Barrel* (with E. Stevens)
              What A Time

              *recorded with Clarence Williams [the former as "Emancipation Day In
              Georgia"]


              --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Is anything known about Horace George? asks Michael Rader.
              >
              > Quite a lot, but it doesn't seem to add up to biography. Details of
              several
              > associations are noted in the Document issues covering his work.
              >
              > On DOCD5590, Guido van Rijn reports that he was another performer of the
              > playing three clarinets at a time trick, had been orchestra leader
              for Mamie
              > Smith, and had worked with Tyus and Tyus off record as well as on,
              which I
              > also discovered when writing the notes for DOCD 5526. As already
              reported he
              > plays clarinet only on OKeh 6134. Horace George's Jubilee Harmonizers on
              > Paramount are just a vocal group. He played the concertina and
              therefore is
              > probably his own accompanist on the unissued Vocalion coupling by Elder
              > George. What all this adds up to is a picture of a vaudevillian
              rather than
              > a committed jazz musician. The ultimate source of all this
              information is
              > the African-American press.
              >
              > He doesn't seem to have been mentioned once in the entire existence of
              > Storyville magazine. Not even in 'Pieces of the Jigsaw'.
              >
              > Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
              > howard@...
              > Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
              >
            • John O
              ... member of the Morton-Handy Band. This is from a note on Mike Meddings doctorjazz.co.uk site, which quotes an article by Paul Edouard Miller in the 1946
              Message 6 of 8 , May 19, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Apparently a musician known to his contemporaries as "Balls" was a
                member of the Morton-Handy Band. This is from a note on Mike Meddings'
                doctorjazz.co.uk site, which quotes an article by Paul Edouard Miller
                in the 1946 Esquire Jazz Book.
                >
                > Is anything known about Horace George?

                In his 'Father Of The Blues' autobiography, Handy recalls "Horace
                George, clarinetist with our outfit," more support for (or perhaps the
                source of) speculation that Balls was George.

                It seems many of Morton's Kings of Jazz--Roy Palmer, Balls Ball, Alex
                Poole--were sometime members of W. C. Handy's Orchestra or the
                Morton-Handy band... also Wilson Townes, Charles Harris and Jasper
                Taylor, listed as probable on Jelly's 1923 "Orchestra" sides for
                Paramount.
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.