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RE: [RedHotJazz] Re: First String Bass On Record was Steve Brown or Arnold Loyocano?

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  • David Brown
    However, although the constant round of sitting-in that was becoming the rule at Friar s was one thing, quite a different thing was the need for a working
    Message 1 of 31 , Apr 4, 2008
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      "However, although the constant round of sitting-in that was becoming
      the rule at Friar's was one thing, quite a different thing was the
      need for a working band, familiar with the routines for recording
      purposes, and that speaks in strong favour of Steve Brown, who was not
      only the band's regular and highly esteemed bass player at the time,
      but who also clearly recalled titles like Eccentric and Farewell Blues
      from the recordings."

      That is a quote from Buhmann via John. Martin Williams in 'Jazz Masters Of
      N.O.' (from an era of jazz scholarship which deemed annotated footnotes
      unnecessary) quotes Loyacano:-

      "Farewell Blues was originated because these guys were fishing for harmony
      and the notes sounded like a train whistle. I was a good reader and so was
      Elmer and we sort of helped the others when they needed it."

      Not only does this negate Buhmann's assertion that Loyacano was somehow not
      proficient enough for recording but places him firmly as participant in the
      NORK creative process. We have already discovered that Brown was NOT the
      band's regular bassist in 1922. If -- IF -- a bass can be heard on these
      sides then it is on 'Farewell' where I can IMAGINE that Loyacano is playing
      bowed till about 1.50 when the rhythm suddenly picks up and he switches to
      pizzicato. Subjectively, I feel that the rhythm on these sides is springier,
      better than on the later 1923 sides where surely, in a smaller ensemble, a
      bassist of Brown's power would somehow make his presence obvious.

      Dave



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • rwondraschek
      Hi all, Got no golden ears, but fortunately own all the original Friar s & NORK Gennetts (78s) in decent to excellent condition, and I can tell you that a
      Message 31 of 31 , May 7, 2010
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        Hi all,

        Got no golden ears, but fortunately own all the original Friar's & NORK Gennetts (78s) in decent to excellent condition, and I can tell you that a string bass IS faintly audible, especially on Eccentric and Farewell.
        Much more difficult to hear this on the Retrieval CD - no wonder, 'cause John R.T. Davies during transfers supressed everything below 125 Hz by 10 dB. I know exactly, 'cause I was actually present during the transfers in his Burnham stable-studio (2001), as I had brought along some of the original 78s which were used for the CD.
        The beauty of owning original 78s is that one is NOT dependant on the judgement (equalization, filtering, ...) of nowadays sound engineers, and that one has ALL the raw data originally commited into the grooves of the 78s.

        Same dispute (brass bass - yes or no) still exists among collectors regarding the 1922/23 Cotton Pickers recordings. While understandable if one only has access to LPs/CDs (/or even MP3s), as soon as you got an original 78 on the turntable, every doubt vanishes and the brass bass is pretty apparent.

        Ralph, Heidelberg, Germany
        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Mordechai Litzman <folke613@...> wrote:
        >
        > Tried Jim's recipe with the treble down and bass up on my fairly sophisticated stereo system hooked up to my computer. IMHO you can hear a faint string bass on Virgina Blues between 1:19 and 1:50. This recording also has drums clearly recorded so it is a fairly sophisticated recording for the period.
        > Any golden ears out there?
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: Jim Jasion <jcjasion@...>
        > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 1:15:38 AM
        > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: First String Bass On Record was Steve Brown or Arnold Loyocano?
        >
        > When listening to the Herb Weidoeft sides - you may have to play with
        > the treble, midrange controls on RealPlayer, you will hear more bass
        > frequency response in general if you TURN DOWN the treble control
        >
        > I may be nuts, but I think I do hear, very faintly, the upper
        > harmonics of an upright doing some walking bass figures - Again, this
        > gives the rhythm section a more 'modern' sound than other bands of
        > the time.
        >
        > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com, "David Brown" <johnhaleysims@ ...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Listened the eight 1922 NORKs and hear no bass. Sadly, I have not
        > JRT
        > > transcriptions and maybe somebody could report on whether his magic
        > has
        > > managed to surface either Loyacano or Brown.
        > >
        > > I have found two possible sources for the Loyacano quote, an
        > interview 29
        > > Sept 1956 in the Hogan Archive and 'The Story Of Arnold Loyacano'
        > in 'Second
        > > Line' January 1951. I don't suppose anybody can dig that up?
        > >
        > > I'm interested in the first audible string bass on record. Do we
        > have to
        > > wait for electrics? Any offers? Bill Johnson is pictured with
        > string bass
        > > with the Oliver CJB but recorded only on banjo. The first bass to
        > appear on
        > > an Oliver record is the unlikely bass sax of Charlie Jackson. I
        > cannot hear
        > > Ed Garland on the Ory Sunshines.
        > >
        > > Dave
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
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