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RE: [RedHotJazz] Re: First String Bass On Record was Steve Brown or Arnold Loyocano?

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  • Michael Rader
    Coming back for a moment to the question of early string bass recordings, I ve searched my own holdings and discovered that there were ragtime recordings with
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 1, 2008
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      Coming back for a moment to the question of early string bass recordings, I've searched my own holdings and discovered that there were ragtime recordings with audible string bass, albeit bowed, e.g. Joan Sawyer's Persian Garden Orchestra, recorded in May 1914 by Columbia or Ciro's Coon Club Orchestra, recorded by Columbia in London in 1916. While not jazz, these recordings do illustrate that it was possible to record string bass, at least bowed well before the NORK recordings. The two samples I mention are on the Timeless "Ragtime to Jazz Vol. 4" and there is another track by Ciro on Volume 3. The complete output of both bands is probably on Document, which I have not heard. Since New Orleans bassists usually bowed part of the time, they should be audible on the NORK recordings, unless Gennett in 1922 was that much worse at recording than Columbia in 1922/3.

      Michael Rader


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    • Howard Rye
      The Dan Kildare recordings, which are not so much ragtime as African-American string-band music in the same tradition as such later groups as the Dallas String
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 2, 2008
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        The Dan Kildare recordings, which are not so much ragtime as
        African-American string-band music in the same tradition as such later
        groups as the Dallas String Band, are on "The Earliest Black String Bands:
        Dan Kildare" Volume 1 (Document DOCD5622) and Volume 2 (Document DOCD5622).
        The first has the Joan Sawyer's and most of the Ciro's. The second has the
        balance of the Ciro's and the much less interesting recordings by Dan &
        Harvey's Jazz Band. Of these, by some paradox, only the waltz is really in
        African-American rhythms. The others are leaden. You'd almost think that the
        message that had reached these guys in their British exile was "if you want
        to call it jazz, don't swing".

        Volume 3 (DOCD5623) is a selection from the recordings of the Versatile
        Three/Four.

        Several of the Ciro's recordings are unknown to collectors. Most of them are
        12-inch and breakage rates of 12-inch 78s in original use were very great
        indeed since most wind-ups had ten-inch turntables and the outer two inches
        of the disc had to support six pounds of soundbox all by itself. When the
        soundbox was slapped on the record by a ham-fisted drunk it didn't.

        One of the missing couplings later turned up in New Zealand, where it had
        evidently been sold in the first place, and was included in Too Late, Too
        Late Volume 12 (DOCD5659). This coupling (Boy Of Mine/Clef Club March) is
        particularly lively and interesting. If you get this CD you can also have
        the "pleasure" of hearing (sort of) the only known copy of Gennett 20058 by
        Stove Pipe Jazz Band.

        I commented in an earlier post that Gennett in 1922/3 were significantly and
        I think intentionally worse at recording basses in particular than English
        Columbia in 1916/17.


        on 1/4/08 21:25, Michael Rader at Rader.Michael@... wrote:

        > Coming back for a moment to the question of early string bass recordings, I've
        > searched my own holdings and discovered that there were ragtime recordings
        > with audible string bass, albeit bowed, e.g. Joan Sawyer's Persian Garden
        > Orchestra, recorded in May 1914 by Columbia or Ciro's Coon Club Orchestra,
        > recorded by Columbia in London in 1916. While not jazz, these recordings do
        > illustrate that it was possible to record string bass, at least bowed well
        > before the NORK recordings. The two samples I mention are on the Timeless
        > "Ragtime to Jazz Vol. 4" and there is another track by Ciro on Volume 3. The
        > complete output of both bands is probably on Document, which I have not heard.
        > Since New Orleans bassists usually bowed part of the time, they should be
        > audible on the NORK recordings, unless Gennett in 1922 was that much worse at
        > recording than Columbia in 1922/3.
        >
        > Michael Rader


        Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
        howard@...
        Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
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