Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [RedHotJazz] Flo Bert

Expand Messages
  • Prof_Hi_Jinx
    While on the subject, there is a Flo B. Bert , widow, in 1930 s Census at Newville, PA, sharing a house with her late husband s family. She is shown as
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 23, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      While on the subject, there is a "Flo B. Bert", widow, in 1930's Census at
      Newville, PA, sharing a house with her late husband's family. She is shown
      as aged 43, with no occupation. White, of course.

      There is also a white Florence Bert in Queens, aged 35, born NY to Irish
      parents.

      Bb

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Prof_Hi_Jinx" <prof_hi_jinx@...>
      To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 7:49 AM
      Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Flo Bert


      > FWIW, Florance W. Cole (sic) is listed in the 1900 Census at 272 Beaubien
      > Street, Detroit. She was born during June 1890 [17 June, according to
      > other
      > sources] in Michigan, and her parents were born in Michigan.
      >
      > By 1920 (as Florence Talbert, "Musician, Orchestra") she was married to
      > Wendell Talbert (33, also "Musician, Orchestra") and they lived at 659
      > 28th
      > Street, Detroit, as did 3 of his younger siblings.
      >
      > She then recorded for Black Swan and, in the mid-1920s, performed in
      > Europe.
      >
      > By 1930, she had fallen on harder times. She was living (as "Florence
      > Talbert") at 4333 (South) Forrestville Avenue, Chicago, shown as aged 35,
      > Divorced, "Dressmaker, Private family". Wendell seems not to be listed in
      > the 1930 Census.
      >
      > Later that year, she performed in San Antonio.
      >
      > She later became Mrs. McCleave, and died in 1961.
      >
      > Bob
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Scott Alexander" <scott@...>
      > To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:18 AM
      > Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Flo Bert
      >
      >
      >> Howard,
      >> It wonder if anyone has looked into the where abouts of Florence Cole
      >> Talbert at the time the Paramounts were recorded? I've determined that
      >> Flo Bert was performing in New York at the time the records were made.
      >> Judging from the size of the ads that appeared in Variety she seems to
      >> have been quite successful at that time. Another clue would be that Flo
      >> Bert was billed as a whistler and one of the songs that was recorded was
      >> "Whistle And I'll Come To Meet You" which possibly had something to do
      >> with her vaudeville act. Did Paramount have a history of releasing
      >> records by singers other than the one listed on the label?
      >>
      >>
      >> Scott Alexander
      >> The Red Hot Jazz Archive
      >> www.redhotjazz.com
      >>
      >>
      >> Howard Rye wrote:
      >>
      >>>on 20/6/05 23:07, Scott Alexander at scott@... wrote:
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>Howard,
      >>>>Yes, I believe all the records are by the same singer. On every song the
      >>>>singer ends almost every line of the song with a distinctive vibrato on
      >>>>the last word of each line. The phrasing also seems the same in the
      >>>>songs. I'll admit that she seems to sing in a little higher and in a
      >>>>more babyish voice on "Hortense" but I'll chalk that up to her playing a
      >>>>character in the song. If anyone wants to weigh in on the issue I've
      >>>>added some more songs to the page:
      >>>>http://www.redhotjazz.com/flobert.html
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>I don't propose to comment on the substantive issue until I've had chance
      >>>to
      >>>listen to all the records again, but you're the first person, Scott, of
      >>>an
      >>>admittedly quite small sample of people who've heard all the discs, to
      >>>take
      >>>this view.
      >>>
      >>>The Paramounts were submitted to the late John Godrich for inclusion in
      >>>Blues & Gospel Records, along with the suggestion that they were secular
      >>>recordings by Florence Cole Talbert, and the report was initially treated
      >>>with some scepticism, especially when publishing the details in the
      >>>amendment service led other informants to report that there was a white
      >>>pop
      >>>singer of this name.
      >>>
      >>>The original informants then supplied tapes of the Paramounts and Bob
      >>>Dixon
      >>>and John Godrich decided that on balance they probably were by an
      >>>African-American artist. The fact they aren't in the Race series is not
      >>>significant because the Race series didn't exist when they were issued.
      >>>
      >>>Eventually I had to decide what to do about the later recordings for the
      >>>4th
      >>>edition of B & G. I hadn't then heard the later recordings and to be
      >>>frank
      >>>I
      >>>just guessed on the basis of repertoire, and the previous knowledge that
      >>>there was a white pop singer of this name, that they were by a different
      >>>artist. There was no alternative. No one had ever suggested that the
      >>>later
      >>>recordings belonged in B & G.
      >>>
      >>>Eventually some of the later recordings were issued on Document DOCD5602
      >>>and
      >>>I was a little surprised to find that I had apparently guessed right. As
      >>>I
      >>>say, up to now, no one has reported disagreement, so in due course I will
      >>>revisit the business. The only reason for this post is to make clear I am
      >>>not ignoring it.
      >>>
      >>>The only thing I personally feel certain about is that the Gennett and
      >>>Regal
      >>>couplings are by a white artist, but that is not in contention! They also
      >>>fall well outside most defintions of jazz.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>>Howard Rye wrote:
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>on 17/6/05 19:08, Scott Alexander at scott@... wrote:
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>>Here are a couple of tunes sung by Flo Bert. You can read about her
      >>>>>>here:
      >>>>>>http://www.redhotjazz.com/flobert.html
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>There both songs have fun lyrics with a jazz band accompaniment:
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>All By Myself
      >>>>>>http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/misc/allbymyself.ram
      >>>>>>Hortnse
      >>>>>>http://www.redhotjazz.com/songs/misc/hortense.ram
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>Scott, do you really believe that the Paramounts are by the same
      >>>>>(white)
      >>>>>artist as the later recordings?
      >>>>>
      >>>>>My ears tell me that whether or not the Paramounts are popular
      >>>>>recordings by
      >>>>>the opera singer Florence Cole Talbert, as has been suggested, they are
      >>>>>by
      >>>>>an African-American singer quite unrelated aurally to the white pop
      >>>>>singer
      >>>>>heard on the later recordings.
      >>>>>
      >>>>>Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
      >>>>>howard@...
      >>>>>Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>
      >>>Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
      >>>howard@...
      >>>Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.