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Tiny Parham

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  • spacelights
    Just a few Tiny Parham questions: Parham s Black Patti Band - I haven t heard this record; I ve read some opinions which doubt Tiny s presence. Has it ever
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 27, 2007
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      Just a few Tiny Parham questions:

      Parham's Black Patti Band - I haven't heard this record; I've read
      some opinions which doubt Tiny's presence. Has it ever been reissued?

      Tiny Parham and His "Forty" Five - is the identification of Papa
      Charlie Jackson (as banjoist/vocalist) strictly aural? I'm not quite
      convinced of his participation.

      Also, the booklet for CD 'Tiny Parham 1929-1940' (Classics 691) has a
      photograph of Tiny playing the organ; standing next to him is Louis
      Armstrong with trumpet... any information on this photo?

      Good wishes to the group,

      John
    • Howard Rye
      The identification of Charlie Jackson for the Forty Five is a recent invention and I d be amazed if there is a shred of evidence for it. (So come on someone,
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 27, 2007
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        The identification of Charlie Jackson for the Forty Five is a recent
        invention and I'd be amazed if there is a shred of evidence for it. (So come
        on someone, amaze me! ) Like so much in this category it appears to
        originate in Rust 4. Before this Mike McKendrick was generally proposed as
        the banjoist.

        Never heard the Black Patti band either to my recollection, nor am I aware
        of a reissue. I can tell you that the naming of Doc Cheatham for the trumpet
        on this disc is merely because Doc recalled recoring with Parham and the
        record cannot otherwise be identified, so at some stage someone has
        concluded that this Black Patti must be meant.

        The label is reproduced in 78 Quarterly 11 and names Bob Butler as the
        vocalist. (There are by the way fewer than five copies known to collectors,
        probably only three.) It is one of a group of Black Patti recordings made in
        St. Paul, Minnesota. It is considered in detail in 78 Quarterly 9 (p.25).
        Mark Berresford's blunt comment is "If this trash was on Victor, it would
        still be in the junk heaps." Other commentators say it sounds like the same
        band as the other side (which is Gennett matrix 12848 by George Osborn and
        His Orchestra reissued from Gennett 6182) but the matrix number doesn't
        really support this. In short, no one wants to believe it's by Tiny Parham.
        I suspect that the rumor that there was a white Minneapolis bandleader named
        Parham comes after this desire, rather than before. It's a single-title
        session sandwiched between Clara Smith and the Southern Jubilee Quartet and
        is cleared marked "Chicago Record Co. Not Gennett" in the Gennett files, so
        definitely recorded for Black Patti. Whatever way you look at it it's weird
        that a whole band should have been brought in to make just one title for
        Black Patti without even an attempt at a coupling (hence the need to lease a
        coupling from Gennett).


        on 27/12/07 23:39, spacelights at spacelights@... wrote:

        Just a few Tiny Parham questions:

        Parham's Black Patti Band - I haven't heard this record; I've read
        some opinions which doubt Tiny's presence. Has it ever been reissued?

        Tiny Parham and His "Forty" Five - is the identification of Papa
        Charlie Jackson (as banjoist/vocalist) strictly aural? I'm not quite
        convinced of his participation.

        Also, the booklet for CD 'Tiny Parham 1929-1940' (Classics 691) has a
        photograph of Tiny playing the organ; standing next to him is Louis
        Armstrong with trumpet... any information on this photo?

        Good wishes to the group,



        Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
        howard@...
        Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dan Van Landingham
        An interesting thing about MIke McKendrick:he had four brothers all of whom shared the middle name of Michael.The Mike McKendrick who played banjo for Louis
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 28, 2007
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          An interesting thing about MIke McKendrick:he had four brothers all of whom shared the
          middle name of Michael.The "Mike McKendrick" who played banjo for Louis Armstrong
          on Victor was Reuben Michael McKendrick.At one time,all of the McKendrick brothers
          worked under the name "Mike McKendrick".This was brought out in the liner notes of an
          RCA/Bluebird LP I bought about fifteen years a go.I believe that Rudi Blesh wrote the li-
          ner notes of the album.The only thing I remember Tiny Parham for was that tune "Piano
          Man" Earl Hines recorded for RCA on Bluebird and "Drummin' Man" which was recorded
          by Gene Krupa around 1939 with an Irene Daye vocal on Brunswick

          Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote:
          The identification of Charlie Jackson for the Forty Five is a recent
          invention and I'd be amazed if there is a shred of evidence for it. (So come
          on someone, amaze me! ) Like so much in this category it appears to
          originate in Rust 4. Before this Mike McKendrick was generally proposed as
          the banjoist.

          Never heard the Black Patti band either to my recollection, nor am I aware
          of a reissue. I can tell you that the naming of Doc Cheatham for the trumpet
          on this disc is merely because Doc recalled recoring with Parham and the
          record cannot otherwise be identified, so at some stage someone has
          concluded that this Black Patti must be meant.

          The label is reproduced in 78 Quarterly 11 and names Bob Butler as the
          vocalist. (There are by the way fewer than five copies known to collectors,
          probably only three.) It is one of a group of Black Patti recordings made in
          St. Paul, Minnesota. It is considered in detail in 78 Quarterly 9 (p.25).
          Mark Berresford's blunt comment is "If this trash was on Victor, it would
          still be in the junk heaps." Other commentators say it sounds like the same
          band as the other side (which is Gennett matrix 12848 by George Osborn and
          His Orchestra reissued from Gennett 6182) but the matrix number doesn't
          really support this. In short, no one wants to believe it's by Tiny Parham.
          I suspect that the rumor that there was a white Minneapolis bandleader named
          Parham comes after this desire, rather than before. It's a single-title
          session sandwiched between Clara Smith and the Southern Jubilee Quartet and
          is cleared marked "Chicago Record Co. Not Gennett" in the Gennett files, so
          definitely recorded for Black Patti. Whatever way you look at it it's weird
          that a whole band should have been brought in to make just one title for
          Black Patti without even an attempt at a coupling (hence the need to lease a
          coupling from Gennett).

          on 27/12/07 23:39, spacelights at spacelights@... wrote:

          Just a few Tiny Parham questions:

          Parham's Black Patti Band - I haven't heard this record; I've read
          some opinions which doubt Tiny's presence. Has it ever been reissued?

          Tiny Parham and His "Forty" Five - is the identification of Papa
          Charlie Jackson (as banjoist/vocalist) strictly aural? I'm not quite
          convinced of his participation.

          Also, the booklet for CD 'Tiny Parham 1929-1940' (Classics 691) has a
          photograph of Tiny playing the organ; standing next to him is Louis
          Armstrong with trumpet... any information on this photo?

          Good wishes to the group,

          Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
          howard@...
          Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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        • Dan Van Landingham
          An interesting thing about MIke McKendrick:he had four brothers all of whom shared the middle name of Michael.The Mike McKendrick who played banjo for Louis
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 28, 2007
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            An interesting thing about MIke McKendrick:he had four brothers all of whom shared the
            middle name of Michael.The "Mike McKendrick" who played banjo for Louis Armstrong
            on Victor was Reuben Michael McKendrick.At one time,all of the McKendrick brothers
            worked under the name "Mike McKendrick".This was brought out in the liner notes of an
            RCA/Bluebird LP I bought about fifteen years a go.I believe that Rudi Blesh wrote the li-
            ner notes of the album.The only thing I remember Tiny Parham for was that tune "Piano
            Man" Earl Hines recorded for RCA on Bluebird and "Drummin' Man" which was recorded
            by Gene Krupa around 1939 with an Irene Daye vocal on Brunswick

            Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote:
            The identification of Charlie Jackson for the Forty Five is a recent
            invention and I'd be amazed if there is a shred of evidence for it. (So come
            on someone, amaze me! ) Like so much in this category it appears to
            originate in Rust 4. Before this Mike McKendrick was generally proposed as
            the banjoist.

            Never heard the Black Patti band either to my recollection, nor am I aware
            of a reissue. I can tell you that the naming of Doc Cheatham for the trumpet
            on this disc is merely because Doc recalled recoring with Parham and the
            record cannot otherwise be identified, so at some stage someone has
            concluded that this Black Patti must be meant.

            The label is reproduced in 78 Quarterly 11 and names Bob Butler as the
            vocalist. (There are by the way fewer than five copies known to collectors,
            probably only three.) It is one of a group of Black Patti recordings made in
            St. Paul, Minnesota. It is considered in detail in 78 Quarterly 9 (p.25).
            Mark Berresford's blunt comment is "If this trash was on Victor, it would
            still be in the junk heaps." Other commentators say it sounds like the same
            band as the other side (which is Gennett matrix 12848 by George Osborn and
            His Orchestra reissued from Gennett 6182) but the matrix number doesn't
            really support this. In short, no one wants to believe it's by Tiny Parham.
            I suspect that the rumor that there was a white Minneapolis bandleader named
            Parham comes after this desire, rather than before. It's a single-title
            session sandwiched between Clara Smith and the Southern Jubilee Quartet and
            is cleared marked "Chicago Record Co. Not Gennett" in the Gennett files, so
            definitely recorded for Black Patti. Whatever way you look at it it's weird
            that a whole band should have been brought in to make just one title for
            Black Patti without even an attempt at a coupling (hence the need to lease a
            coupling from Gennett).

            on 27/12/07 23:39, spacelights at spacelights@... wrote:

            Just a few Tiny Parham questions:

            Parham's Black Patti Band - I haven't heard this record; I've read
            some opinions which doubt Tiny's presence. Has it ever been reissued?

            Tiny Parham and His "Forty" Five - is the identification of Papa
            Charlie Jackson (as banjoist/vocalist) strictly aural? I'm not quite
            convinced of his participation.

            Also, the booklet for CD 'Tiny Parham 1929-1940' (Classics 691) has a
            photograph of Tiny playing the organ; standing next to him is Louis
            Armstrong with trumpet... any information on this photo?

            Good wishes to the group,

            Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
            howard@...
            Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • spacelights
            Thanks Howard and Dan... from the descriptions of those who ve heard it, it does seem unlikely that the Black Patti Band includes Tiny (though perhaps he
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 7, 2008
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              Thanks Howard and Dan... from the descriptions of those who've heard
              it, it does seem unlikely that the Black Patti Band includes Tiny
              (though perhaps he didn't choose the material?). His confirmed 1927
              groups have excellent jazz content: Jasper Taylor's State Street Boys,
              the Dodds duos, and his "Forty" Five.

              On the subject of the Taylor sides, who is a likely cornetist other
              than Keppard (the breaks seem rather too Armstrong-influenced to be him)?
            • David Brown
              Hello John Does anyone know the source for Keppard on the Jaspers, an old chestnut ? Well considered by nobody less than Max Harrison in Essential Jazz
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 8, 2008
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                Hello John

                Does anyone know the source for Keppard on the Jaspers, an old chestnut ?

                Well considered by nobody less than Max Harrison in 'Essential Jazz
                Records -1'. To précis. Gushee suggests Punch -- who it is definitely not.
                Harrison cites similarities with Shoffner but 1925 Shoffner and by 1927 he
                was too Louis. Also seeming anomalies between the two sides 'Stomp Time' and
                'It Must Be The Blues'. To me, the former is typical Keppard but the latter
                certainly more legato and nearer to Louis. Harrison suggests aural
                similarities Lee Collins or Ed Swayzee -- IF it is he on Morton's 'Deep
                Creek'. (And where else is he ?)

                Harrison comes down for Keppard and so do I. He was an uneven performer and
                in our previous discussion of him here I claimed to find some Louis in his
                later recordings.

                Dave






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • spacelights
                ... latter ... Hi Dave: I would opt for Keppard on the Jaspers as well (although with a question mark): I hear his tone and phrasing on Stomp Time , also a
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 8, 2008
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                  --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "David Brown" <johnhaleysims@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Also seeming anomalies between the two sides 'Stomp Time' and
                  > 'It Must Be The Blues'. To me, the former is typical Keppard but the
                  latter
                  > certainly more legato and nearer to Louis.

                  Hi Dave:

                  I would opt for Keppard on the Jaspers as well (although with a
                  question mark): I hear his tone and phrasing on "Stomp Time", also a
                  characteristic delivery slightly ahead of the beat. Regarding the
                  second tune: there seems to be a dearth of straight blues in Keppard's
                  recorded output, so not much to compare this to. The cornet does take
                  an approach similar to that on Keppard's Jazz Cardinals' "Salty Dog"
                  of the previous year.

                  John
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