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Some invective

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  • emuslan
    Hello, I recently joined the list and I ve enjoyed reading the posts. This is my first posting... Is anyone familiar with Richard Sudhalter s awkwardly
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 16, 2005
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      Hello,

      I recently joined the list and I've enjoyed reading the posts. This
      is my first posting...

      Is anyone familiar with Richard Sudhalter's awkwardly entitled "Lost
      Chords: White Jazz Musicians and Their Contributions to Jazz"? I just
      looked up Coon-Sanders in the index, to see what this expert on jazz
      persons of pallor has to say. And this is what he says:

      "The Coon-Sanders Nighthawks, a Kansas City dance band whose `jazz'
      novelties had become, at best, a bloodless parody of hot music, had
      moved in at the Blackhawk and were broadcasting nightly over WGN.
      What passed for `hot' was usually novelty material like "Here Comes
      My Ball and Chain" and "Kansas City Kitty"………Once in a while a
      trumpeter or saxophonist might pop out of the ensemble to 'get off'
      for eight bars; but even then the public seemed to recognize no
      distinction between the solo efforts of dedicated hot players and
      those of journeyman dance band men."

      Ouch! I think Sudhalter is way out of line here - anybody with me?

      Eytan
    • vintagetenor
      Eytan, Let me start out by saying that I love Coon-Sanders, and regard them as one of the consistently hot bands of the jazz age. But remember that Dick
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 16, 2005
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        Eytan,

        Let me start out by saying that I love Coon-Sanders, and regard them as one of the consistently hot bands of the jazz age.

        But remember that Dick Sudhalter has been an esteemed jazz historian for many decades. I think the disparity here, in my opinion, lies in what each of you consideres to be jazz.

        I think Dick comes from the more traditional apporach to what jazz is, and was commenting on Coon-Sanders' lack of high quality jazz soloists; that they didn't have any Buster Baileys, Joe Venutis, et al.

        But in my book, they got along very well without them, considering.

        Mike Amato






        emuslan <euslan@...> wrote:
        Hello,

        I recently joined the list and I've enjoyed reading the posts. This
        is my first posting...

        Is anyone familiar with Richard Sudhalter's awkwardly entitled "Lost
        Chords: White Jazz Musicians and Their Contributions to Jazz"? I just
        looked up Coon-Sanders in the index, to see what this expert on jazz
        persons of pallor has to say. And this is what he says:

        "The Coon-Sanders Nighthawks, a Kansas City dance band whose `jazz'
        novelties had become, at best, a bloodless parody of hot music, had
        moved in at the Blackhawk and were broadcasting nightly over WGN.
        What passed for `hot' was usually novelty material like "Here Comes
        My Ball and Chain" and "Kansas City Kitty"………Once in a while a
        trumpeter or saxophonist might pop out of the ensemble to 'get off'
        for eight bars; but even then the public seemed to recognize no
        distinction between the solo efforts of dedicated hot players and
        those of journeyman dance band men."

        Ouch! I think Sudhalter is way out of line here - anybody with me?

        Eytan




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      • Jon Noring
        Mike Amato, ... Jazz is a *very* big tent, and just about everyone will find some style of jazz they like. I once ran into a real snob of classical music, who
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 16, 2005
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          Mike Amato,

          > Let me start out by saying that I love Coon-Sanders, and regard
          > them as one of the consistently hot bands of the jazz age.
          >
          > But remember that Dick Sudhalter has been an esteemed jazz
          > historian for many decades. I think the disparity here, in my
          > opinion, lies in what each of you consideres to be jazz.
          >
          > I think Dick comes from the more traditional apporach to what
          > jazz is, and was commenting on Coon-Sanders' lack of high quality
          > jazz soloists; that they didn't have any Buster Baileys, Joe
          > Venutis, et al.
          >
          > But in my book, they got along very well without them, considering.

          Jazz is a *very* big tent, and just about everyone will find some
          style of jazz they like. I once ran into a real snob of classical
          music, who disdained all jazz, but for some reason loved all Duke
          Ellington, even his "Jungle Band" era recordings (which are my favs of
          Duke Ellington, such as "Jungle Nights in Harlem" on Victor -- love
          its "ethereal" sound.) So, go figure.

          My favored style of earlier jazz lies a little outside of the primary
          focus of the Red Hot Jazz archives (I love the early 30's, 1932-34,
          just before the Swing era, especially the more sophisticated jazz such
          as performed by Benny Goodman, Jack Teagarden, Dorsey Brothers,
          Venuti-Lang, Adrian Rollini, etc. -- the Venuti-Lang All Stars session
          of late 1931 ranks, in my opinion, as the finest jazz recordings ever
          made.) But sometimes I have a fondness for the simpler and earlier
          stuff. I once owned a *mint* copy of "It's Tight Like That" by Jimmy
          Noone on Vocalion 1xxx (can't recall the exact number), and I loved
          that recording (it was also an unusual take, so I've been told -- got
          a couple hundred dollars for that record when I sold it on auction
          back in the late 1970's. I now wish I had kept that record. :^( )

          Jon Noring
        • Uslan, Eytan
          ... music, who disdained all jazz, but for some reason loved all Duke Ellington, even his Jungle Band era recordings (which are my favs of Duke Ellington,
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 16, 2005
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            >I once ran into a real snob of classical
            music, who disdained all jazz, but for some reason loved all Duke
            Ellington, even his "Jungle Band" era recordings (which are my favs of
            Duke Ellington, such as "Jungle Nights in Harlem" on Victor -- love
            its "ethereal" sound.) So, go figure.

            Does he deride every type of jazz he didn't like, calling it "fake jazz?' If so, he'd be a great jazz historian! :-)

            ________________________________

            From: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Jon Noring
            Sent: Thu 6/16/2005 4:53 PM
            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Some invective


            Mike Amato,

            > Let me start out by saying that I love Coon-Sanders, and regard
            > them as one of the consistently hot bands of the jazz age.
            >
            > But remember that Dick Sudhalter has been an esteemed jazz
            > historian for many decades. I think the disparity here, in my
            > opinion, lies in what each of you consideres to be jazz.
            >
            > I think Dick comes from the more traditional apporach to what
            > jazz is, and was commenting on Coon-Sanders' lack of high quality
            > jazz soloists; that they didn't have any Buster Baileys, Joe
            > Venutis, et al.
            >
            > But in my book, they got along very well without them, considering.

            Jazz is a *very* big tent, and just about everyone will find some
            style of jazz they like. I once ran into a real snob of classical
            music, who disdained all jazz, but for some reason loved all Duke
            Ellington, even his "Jungle Band" era recordings (which are my favs of
            Duke Ellington, such as "Jungle Nights in Harlem" on Victor -- love
            its "ethereal" sound.) So, go figure.

            My favored style of earlier jazz lies a little outside of the primary
            focus of the Red Hot Jazz archives (I love the early 30's, 1932-34,
            just before the Swing era, especially the more sophisticated jazz such
            as performed by Benny Goodman, Jack Teagarden, Dorsey Brothers,
            Venuti-Lang, Adrian Rollini, etc. -- the Venuti-Lang All Stars session
            of late 1931 ranks, in my opinion, as the finest jazz recordings ever
            made.) But sometimes I have a fondness for the simpler and earlier
            stuff. I once owned a *mint* copy of "It's Tight Like That" by Jimmy
            Noone on Vocalion 1xxx (can't recall the exact number), and I loved
            that recording (it was also an unusual take, so I've been told -- got
            a couple hundred dollars for that record when I sold it on auction
            back in the late 1970's. I now wish I had kept that record. :^( )

            Jon Noring



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