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Re: [RedHotJazz] Rust's books

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  • Jim Baldwin
    Jazz & Ragtime Records is a wholly new title, not a 6th edition. There is no such thing. At the most it can be described as a 6th incarnation of Rust s Jazz
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 1, 2007
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      Jazz & Ragtime Records is a wholly new title, not a 6th edition. There
      is no such thing. At the most it can be described as a 6th incarnation
      of Rust's Jazz Records. It does continue the work of Brian Rust to whom
      we all should be most grateful, but I haven't read of him saying how much
      input he provided to the work under discussion. Maybe he doesnt want to.
      One Malcolm Shaw is the editor and bears the responsibility for this inept
      work.

      I bought my set on the recommendation of a jazz researcher. I found out
      later he is a buddy of the editor. Had I known the problems with the work
      I would have spent my money elsewhere.

      The J&RR was a terrible disappointment. Thousands of corrections were
      ignored after a buildup of over two decades. Those corrections are now being
      issued in a British auction catalog one must subscribe to. If you don't have
      those you cannot use the J&RR with any confidence.

      Another annoyance was that the former page layout Rust used which enabled
      the researcher to quickly look up various artists was abandoned. The former
      layout had the artist name at the top of each page. Now at the top of the page
      is Brian Rust's name on the left page and the book title on the right. I guess it's
      handy if you should forget what you are looking at. Luckily, the page numbers
      were provided.

      The publisher also left out the tune index! After outcries it was published as a
      separate paperback for another $20. (I can see decades from now later collectors
      will be in considerable anguish being unable to to find tunes in the main work
      after the separate index is lost or worn out and discarded.)

      Anyways, that's why I said hold onto the 1978 4th edition. It is still useful.

      Caveat emptor applies here.

      Jim
      ===========================================================
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Howard Rye
      To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 7:10 AM
      Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Rust's books


      The current edition of Jazz and Ragtime Records 1897-1942 is the 6th,
      published by Mainspring Press, Denver, Colorado, in 2002. You can easily
      google them. It is edited by Malcolm Shaw and I guess Brian Rust had quite a
      small input into the changes.

      I don't think it would be meaningful to say it's updated. There are changes
      but the majority of issued broadcasts, radio transcriptions, and so on are
      still omitted, so are most new takes and previously unissued items that have
      appeared on LP or CD since 1970. A lot of different speculations about
      personnels we will never know for sure have been substituted over the years.
      I still use the 1969 third edition for most purposes, but we've had a recent
      example on this list (Blue Steele) of how that can mislead.

      You pays your money and etc.!

      on 31/10/07 21:54, Dan Van Landingham at danvanlandingham@... wrote:

      Did Rust ever update his discography book?

      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
      howard@...
      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • jimmiejazz37
      There are many fine hot dance/jazz tunes in Rust s American Dance Band Discography which are not in Jazz Records. Does Lord attempt to include these in his
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 1, 2007
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        There are many fine hot dance/jazz tunes in Rust's American Dance
        Band Discography which are not in Jazz Records. Does Lord attempt to
        include these in his discography?

        BTW, Tommer, no discography is free from mistakes. It's always an
        ongoing effort to achieve better accuracy.

        Jim
        ======================================================================
        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Tommer" <tommersl@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Dan Van Landingham
        > <danvanlandingham@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Nor do I.There is Jeppsen's Jazz Discographies but that was a 25
        > volume set.
        >
        > There is a site by someone Tom Lord lordisco.com that is claiming
        to
        > have the entire and all-time discography of Jazz on a single cd. It
        > discouraged me from trying to build a prewar database of all the
        cds
        > I (and will) have when I found out about it.
        >
        > Interesting is the statistics on this site says, 700000 artists,
        and
        > the same amount of tunes. Somehow the number of tunes ,at least
        that
        > is what is written in his site, converges to the number of artists.
        >
        > I'm discouraged by the price and the chances that there are
        mistakes.
        > tommersl
        >
      • Tommer
        ... Indeed there are mistakes, I guess I need the authoritative recommendation of someone, like members of this very list before I get into a 420$ in amount of
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 1, 2007
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          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "jimmiejazz37" <jimmiejazz@...> wrote:
          >
          > BTW, Tommer, no discography is free from mistakes. It's always an
          > ongoing effort to achieve better accuracy.
          >
          > Jim
          >

          Indeed there are mistakes, I guess I need the authoritative
          recommendation of someone, like members of this very list before I get
          into a 420$ in amount of adventure which can be full of misleading paths.
          tommer
        • Howard Rye
          Walter Bruninckx s 90 Years of Recorded Jazz & Blues (1917-2007) (Prejazz 1897-1917) , of which the latest edition has just been published, is (a) cheaper;
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 1, 2007
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            Walter Bruninckx's "90 Years of Recorded Jazz & Blues (1917-2007) (Prejazz
            1897-1917)", of which the latest edition has just been published, is (a)
            cheaper; (b) one step nearer to good sources on many artists; (c) also
            includes blues and (some) African-American gospel music.

            It's only on CD-R (opens in Microsoft Word on both PCs & MACs). You can find
            Walter at Lange Nieuwstraat 121, 2800 Mechelen, Belgium, and he has
            arrangements for payment in several currencies.

            on 1/11/07 16:06, Tommer at tommersl@... wrote:

            --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com> ,
            "jimmiejazz37" <jimmiejazz@...> wrote:
            >
            > BTW, Tommer, no discography is free from mistakes. It's always an
            > ongoing effort to achieve better accuracy.
            >
            > Jim
            >

            Indeed there are mistakes, I guess I need the authoritative
            recommendation of someone, like members of this very list before I get
            into a 420$ in amount of adventure which can be full of misleading paths.
            tommer



            Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
            howard@...
            Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • john schott
            The Tom Lord discography was controversial when it first appeared, as large parts of it seemed to be plagiarized from other discographies, and not based on
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 1, 2007
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              The Tom Lord discography was controversial when it first appeared, as large parts of it seemed to be plagiarized from other discographies, and not based on original research. I believe Barry Kernfeld reviewed it and discussed these matters in the journal "Notes." This would have been about 1995.

              John Schott

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Tommer
              ... (Prejazz ... Sounds like an interestingly defined musical scope, and at the same time it seems like what I was looking for. tommer
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 1, 2007
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                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote:
                >
                > Walter Bruninckx's "90 Years of Recorded Jazz & Blues (1917-2007)
                (Prejazz
                > 1897-1917)", of which the latest edition has just been published, is (a)
                > cheaper; (b) one step nearer to good sources on many artists; (c) also
                > includes blues and (some) African-American gospel music.
                >
                >

                Sounds like an interestingly defined musical scope, and at the same
                time it seems like what I was looking for.
                tommer
              • Dan Van Landingham
                Who is this Tom Lord you have been speaking of?I have never heard of him. john schott wrote: The Tom Lord discography was
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 1, 2007
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                  Who is this Tom Lord you have been speaking of?I have never heard of him.

                  john schott <john@...> wrote: The Tom Lord discography was controversial when it first appeared, as large parts of it seemed to be plagiarized from other discographies, and not based on original research. I believe Barry Kernfeld reviewed it and discussed these matters in the journal "Notes." This would have been about 1995.

                  John Schott

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                • Albert Haim
                  Tom Lord s discography is described in http://www.lordisco.com/ Albert ... him. ... controversial when it first appeared, as large parts of it seemed to be
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 2, 2007
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                    Tom Lord's discography is described in

                    http://www.lordisco.com/

                    Albert


                    --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Dan Van Landingham
                    <danvanlandingham@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Who is this Tom Lord you have been speaking of?I have never heard of
                    him.
                    >
                    > john schott <john@...> wrote: The Tom Lord discography was
                    controversial when it first appeared, as large parts of it seemed to
                    be plagiarized from other discographies, and not based on original
                    research. I believe Barry Kernfeld reviewed it and discussed these
                    matters in the journal "Notes." This would have been about 1995.
                    >
                    > John Schott
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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