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Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: Louis Armstorng later recordings

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  • Olivier Douville
    That s a surprise for sure. 1947 Boston concert, 1950 New-Orleans Function, After : The Good Book and plenty of concerts and a wonderfull Musical
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 1, 2007
      That's a surprise for sure. 1947 Boston concert, 1950 New-Orleans Function,
      After : The Good Book and plenty of concerts and a wonderfull Musical
      Autobiography, Last records : Louis Armstrong and Friends (RCA VICTOR).
      Plenty of good musicians too : Jack Teagarde, Barney Bigard, Cozy Cole, Earl
      Hines, Sid Cattlet, divers orchestras arranged bye SY Oliver and last but
      not least the team he made with Ella.


      By the way i would like to know more 'bout the pianist Charlie Segar (born ?
      dead ? ) and i'll be pleased to get photographs of him, and i was wondering
      if Mr Jay Mc Shann was still alirve or not.

      Thanks
      HAve a nice day
      O.D.
      le 31/10/07 23:45, Cassandra à cassytn@... a écrit :

      I've heard it said (don't know if I believe it or not) that Armstrong
      didn't actually play on any recordings after 1946.. That the only time
      he played after that was on film and live... I.E. The Five Pennies.

      Cassandra
      A Child of The Swampers.

      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com> ,
      Dan Van Landingham
      <danvanlandingham@...> wrote:
      >
      > For what it's worth,I tended to stay away from the recordings
      Armstrong made later on in his career.All of those "All Stars"
      recordings,beginning with those cut at RCA in 1946-47,left me
      cold.This is where I sided with those critics who favoured the
      recordings he cut for OKeh thr-
      > ough 1931.There were a few sides Armstrong cut for RCA in 1933
      that were quite good but
      > his twelve year output for Decca(1935-47)yielded recordings that
      were of little consequence
      > save his 1938 recording on Decca of "Struttin' WIth Some Barbeque"
      and "Savoy Blues" which were,of course,updated big band manifestations
      of the things he recorded in the '20s
      > for OKeh.I also had a couple of 45 rpm recordings he did for
      Columbia in the '50s("Back O'T-
      > own Blues")but they,like the RCAs,left me cold.That's why I pass
      up any Armstrong CD I
      > come across at Wal Mart.
      >
      > Tommer <tommersl@...> wrote:
      > I'm looking for recordings of Louis Armstrong that were
      recorded after
      > the war (after 1943) that are recommended.
      >
      > Is there anything worth of noting (in trumpet or cornet playing sense)?
      > tommersl
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________________________________________________
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      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >




      --



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Howard Rye
      You ve been had! I wonder who made that one up and why. An excellent up-to-date comprehensive discography of Armstrong s work is All Of Me: The Complete
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 1, 2007
        You've been had! I wonder who made that one up and why.

        An excellent up-to-date comprehensive discography of Armstrong's work is
        "All Of Me: The Complete Discography of Louis Armstrong" by Jos Willems,
        Scarecrow Press Studies in Jazz No. 51, Lanham, MD, 2006. It's expensive.
        Top-class work usually is.

        If I had to restrict my post-war Armstrong collection to just a few items,
        I'd certainly start with "Satchmo, A Musical Autobiography", which someone
        has already mentioned. The Crescendo & Symphony Hall concerts are as good as
        their reputation. So are the W.C. Handy and Fats Waller sets. I enjoy the
        two albums with Duke Ellington on Roulette (1961) which are reissued on CD
        as "The Great Summit", but I know this isn't a universal opinion.

        The man never really made a bad record until the very last years, but he did
        make a lot of records that sound very like a lot of his other records and
        some of the later editions of the All Stars involved musicians who were not
        only a lot less talented than the leader, but just not very talented.
        Personally I find some of the records he made with local pop singers like
        Nina & Frederick great fun, but I guess that makes me a pervert in the minds
        of a lot of folk on this list.





        on 31/10/07 22:45, Cassandra at cassytn@... wrote:

        I've heard it said (don't know if I believe it or not) that Armstrong
        didn't actually play on any recordings after 1946.. That the only time
        he played after that was on film and live... I.E. The Five Pennies.


        Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
        howard@...
        Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Howard Rye
        Jay McShann died on 7 December 2006. on 1/11/07 10:39, Olivier Douville at douvilleolivier@noos.fr wrote: By the way i would like to know more bout the
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 1, 2007
          Jay McShann died on 7 December 2006.


          on 1/11/07 10:39, Olivier Douville at douvilleolivier@... wrote:

          By the way i would like to know more 'bout the pianist Charlie Segar (born ?
          dead ? ) and i'll be pleased to get photographs of him, and i was wondering
          if Mr Jay Mc Shann was still alirve or not.





          Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
          howard@...
          Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Olivier Douville
          Thanks OD le 1/11/07 13:30, Howard Rye à howard@coppermill.demon.co.uk a écrit : Jay McShann died on 7 December 2006. [Non-text portions of this message
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 1, 2007
            Thanks
            OD

            le 1/11/07 13:30, Howard Rye à howard@... a écrit :

            Jay McShann died on 7 December 2006.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Brown
            Right Howard & Tony. There is almost no bad Louis, even the mawkish is transformed by his sincerity and musical intelligence. Later indeed the dedicated
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 1, 2007
              Right Howard & Tony. There is almost no bad Louis, even the mawkish is
              transformed by his sincerity and musical intelligence.

              Later indeed the 'dedicated' albums, per Howard, are best together with
              those away from the All Star treadmill where he still strove for those high
              note endings. The Ellington, yes, and the Dukes Of Dixieland where, despite
              a leaden rhythm section, we hear the best ever recording of his sound.

              Yes indeed, also with non-jazzers. The Country & Western album. The Ellas
              are sublime.

              The Nina & Fred I would love to hear. Where is it Howard ?

              Dave



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Howard Rye
              The Formula For Love was recorded in Copenhagen on 26 January 1959 by the All Stars with the Van Pallandts. It s been reissued on several German CDs, which I
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 1, 2007
                "The Formula For Love" was recorded in Copenhagen on 26 January 1959 by the
                All Stars with the Van Pallandts. It's been reissued on several German CDs,
                which I assume are devoted to N&F, and also on Jazz & Jazz CDJJ626, which is
                from the Italian Green Line outfit and (was) widely distributed. Long ago it
                was Pye-International N25043.

                It actually was recorded in connection with a film called Kaerlighedens
                Melodi, which certainly has been available on video.

                The ultimate Armstrong curiosity is Onkel Satchmo's Lullaby (May 1959), on
                which he duets, and plays trumpet, with a poisonous moppet called Gabriele
                Clonisch, who was I think an Austrian kiddie-pop star. This also has a film
                connection (La Paloma), and is also on the Jazz & Jazz CD, and a lot of
                other CDs including Bear Family BCD16488 which I suspect is devoted to
                Gabriele (and the stuff of nightmares). No one but Louis could have carried
                this off and it sounds as though he's having a ball.

                on 1/11/07 15:58, David Brown at johnhaleysims@... wrote:


                The Nina & Fred I would love to hear. Where is it Howard ?




                Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                howard@...
                Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dan Van Landingham
                Louis Armstrong not recording after 1946?I can t believe that.Though I am no fan of his later work,his sound was unmistakable,I had some of his albums that
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 1, 2007
                  Louis Armstrong not recording after 1946?I can't believe that.Though I am no fan of his later work,his sound was unmistakable,I had some of his albums that were cut between 1947 and
                  the late sixties.The only player I knew of who had other musicians play in his stead was King
                  Oliver in 1930.The latter recordings-on Victor-came out around fifty years ago on the old RCA
                  Camden label.The album was called "Great Jazz Brass" which was a companion album to
                  "Great Jazz Reeds".I have the first album in my collection.I was given one copy to run off for
                  a guy I used to play trombone duets with several years ago.If memory serves,the one track
                  Oliver recorded was called "New Orleans Shout" which featured the trumpet(or cornet)of his
                  nephew Dave Nelson who was also a pianist.I had one boxed set of Armstrong that was orig-
                  nally released in 1957 on Decca.It was a musical autobiography of Armstrong narrated him-
                  self.The others I had were "Louis Armstrong Plays King Oliver" on Audio Fidelity and of course,"Hello Dolly" which my mother bought new back around 1965 on Kapp Records.In all of the years I've been an Armstrong fan,I've never known of him to ghost his own records.The
                  only other time I knew of a musician to ghost on a record date was when Jimmy Dorsey cut
                  that record of "So Rare" and according to the late Skeets Herfurt,it was Dick Stabile who
                  allegedly recorded in Dorsey's place.I let Skeets go to his grave thinking that(he died in 1991).Stabile did come in and finish up the album Dorsey started.Dorsey had died of lung ca-
                  ncer a few days before.I only heard one other trumpeter imitate the later Armstrong and that
                  was on an old Command album I had of Doc Severensen.I would rather remember Armstrong the way he sounded back in the late '20s and early '30s.


                  You've been had! I wonder who made that one up and why.

                  An excellent up-to-date comprehensive discography of Armstrong's work is
                  "All Of Me: The Complete Discography of Louis Armstrong" by Jos Willems,
                  Scarecrow Press Studies in Jazz No. 51, Lanham, MD, 2006. It's expensive.
                  Top-class work usually is.

                  If I had to restrict my post-war Armstrong collection to just a few items,
                  I'd certainly start with "Satchmo, A Musical Autobiography", which someone
                  has already mentioned. The Crescendo & Symphony Hall concerts are as good as
                  their reputation. So are the W.C. Handy and Fats Waller sets. I enjoy the
                  two albums with Duke Ellington on Roulette (1961) which are reissued on CD
                  as "The Great Summit", but I know this isn't a universal opinion.

                  The man never really made a bad record until the very last years, but he did
                  make a lot of records that sound very like a lot of his other records and
                  some of the later editions of the All Stars involved musicians who were not
                  only a lot less talented than the leader, but just not very talented.
                  Personally I find some of the records he made with local pop singers like
                  Nina & Frederick great fun, but I guess that makes me a pervert in the minds
                  of a lot of folk on this list.

                  on 31/10/07 22:45, Cassandra at cassytn@... wrote:

                  I've heard it said (don't know if I believe it or not) that Armstrong
                  didn't actually play on any recordings after 1946.. That the only time
                  he played after that was on film and live... I.E. The Five Pennies.

                  Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                  howard@...
                  Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  __________________________________________________
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                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                • Dan Van Landingham
                  Do you have the Verve album that Armstrong cut with Fitzgerald in the fifties?I had it but that was a couple of years ago.I found it at a garage sale;I didn t
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 1, 2007
                    Do you have the Verve album that Armstrong cut with Fitzgerald in the fifties?I had it but that was a couple of years ago.I found it at a garage sale;I didn't know that Armstrong ever recorded for Verve.I have some of the stuff Fitzgerald recorded for Verve.

                    Olivier Douville <douvilleolivier@...> wrote:
                    That's a surprise for sure. 1947 Boston concert, 1950 New-Orleans Function,
                    After : The Good Book and plenty of concerts and a wonderfull Musical
                    Autobiography, Last records : Louis Armstrong and Friends (RCA VICTOR).
                    Plenty of good musicians too : Jack Teagarde, Barney Bigard, Cozy Cole, Earl
                    Hines, Sid Cattlet, divers orchestras arranged bye SY Oliver and last but
                    not least the team he made with Ella.

                    By the way i would like to know more 'bout the pianist Charlie Segar (born ?
                    dead ? ) and i'll be pleased to get photographs of him, and i was wondering
                    if Mr Jay Mc Shann was still alirve or not.

                    Thanks
                    HAve a nice day
                    O.D.
                    le 31/10/07 23:45, Cassandra à cassytn@... a écrit :

                    I've heard it said (don't know if I believe it or not) that Armstrong
                    didn't actually play on any recordings after 1946.. That the only time
                    he played after that was on film and live... I.E. The Five Pennies.

                    Cassandra
                    A Child of The Swampers.

                    --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                    Dan Van Landingham
                    <danvanlandingham@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > For what it's worth,I tended to stay away from the recordings
                    Armstrong made later on in his career.All of those "All Stars"
                    recordings,beginning with those cut at RCA in 1946-47,left me
                    cold.This is where I sided with those critics who favoured the
                    recordings he cut for OKeh thr-
                    > ough 1931.There were a few sides Armstrong cut for RCA in 1933
                    that were quite good but
                    > his twelve year output for Decca(1935-47)yielded recordings that
                    were of little consequence
                    > save his 1938 recording on Decca of "Struttin' WIth Some Barbeque"
                    and "Savoy Blues" which were,of course,updated big band manifestations
                    of the things he recorded in the '20s
                    > for OKeh.I also had a couple of 45 rpm recordings he did for
                    Columbia in the '50s("Back O'T-
                    > own Blues")but they,like the RCAs,left me cold.That's why I pass
                    up any Armstrong CD I
                    > come across at Wal Mart.
                    >
                    > Tommer <tommersl@...> wrote:
                    > I'm looking for recordings of Louis Armstrong that were
                    recorded after
                    > the war (after 1943) that are recommended.
                    >
                    > Is there anything worth of noting (in trumpet or cornet playing sense)?
                    > tommersl
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >

                    --

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    __________________________________________________
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                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Olivier Douville
                    Satchmo recorded a lot for Verve, I think of an album he made with Oscar Peterson and The Prgy & Bess version with Ella Olivier Douville [Non-text portions of
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 2, 2007
                      Satchmo recorded a lot for Verve, I think of an album he made with Oscar
                      Peterson and The Prgy & Bess version with Ella

                      Olivier Douville





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Howard Rye
                      I was hoping Bob Eagle himself would respond to this, but according to information Bob has posted in other forums, Segar can be found in the 1920 census, aged
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 2, 2007
                        I was hoping Bob Eagle himself would respond to this, but according to
                        information Bob has posted in other forums, Segar can be found in the 1920
                        census, aged 19, enumerated in Louisiana at a lumber camp as a piano-player.
                        He was born in Georgia according to the census entry.

                        He was the first husband of Nellie Lutcher.

                        He is not included in Eric's Blues Date so I assume that neither his birth
                        date nor death date have been recovered so far.

                        on 1/11/07 10:39, Olivier Douville at douvilleolivier@... wrote:

                        By the way i would like to know more 'bout the pianist Charlie Segar (born ?
                        dead ? )


                        Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                        howard@...
                        Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Olivier Douville
                        Thanks. Really. OD I was hoping Bob Eagle himself would respond to this, but according to information Bob has posted in other forums, Segar can be found in the
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 2, 2007
                          Thanks. Really.
                          OD

                          I was hoping Bob Eagle himself would respond to this, but according to
                          information Bob has posted in other forums, Segar can be found in the 1920
                          census, aged 19, enumerated in Louisiana at a lumber camp as a piano-player.
                          He was born in Georgia according to the census entry.

                          He was the first husband of Nellie Lutcher.

                          He is not included in Eric's Blues Date so I assume that neither his birth
                          date nor death date have been recovered so far.

                          on 1/11/07 10:39, Olivier Douville at douvilleolivier@...
                          <mailto:douvilleolivier%40noos.fr> wrote:

                          By the way i would like to know more 'bout the pianist Charlie Segar (born ?
                          dead ? )

                          Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                          howard@... <mailto:howard%40coppermill.demon.co.uk>
                          Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          --










                          Olivier Douville


                          Directeur de publication de PSYCHOLOGIE CLINIQUE

                          22, rue de la Tour d'Auvergne 75009 Paris
                          tel : 06 77 69 24 51

                          douvilleolivier@...


                          liens
                          http://www.dunod.com/pages/ouvrages/ficheouvrage.asp?id=49180
                          http://www.psycho-ressources.com/olivier-douville.html













                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Dan Van Landingham
                          I never heard of Charlie Segar,but I had a few Capitol 78s of Nellie Lutcher.She was good.She was part of the rhythm and blues scene of the forties.Her
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 2, 2007
                            I never heard of Charlie Segar,but I had a few Capitol 78s of Nellie Lutcher.She was good.She
                            was part of the rhythm and blues scene of the forties.Her contemporaries were Hadda Broo-
                            ks and Julia Lee who was also a Capitol artist.Brooks recorded for a label called "Modern" in
                            the early fifties.I liked Lutcher better than Lee.

                            Olivier Douville <douvilleolivier@...> wrote:
                            Thanks. Really.
                            OD

                            I was hoping Bob Eagle himself would respond to this, but according to
                            information Bob has posted in other forums, Segar can be found in the 1920
                            census, aged 19, enumerated in Louisiana at a lumber camp as a piano-player.
                            He was born in Georgia according to the census entry.

                            He was the first husband of Nellie Lutcher.

                            He is not included in Eric's Blues Date so I assume that neither his birth
                            date nor death date have been recovered so far.

                            on 1/11/07 10:39, Olivier Douville at douvilleolivier@...
                            <mailto:douvilleolivier%40noos.fr> wrote:

                            By the way i would like to know more 'bout the pianist Charlie Segar (born ?
                            dead ? )

                            Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                            howard@... <mailto:howard%40coppermill.demon.co.uk>
                            Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            --

                            Olivier Douville

                            Directeur de publication de PSYCHOLOGIE CLINIQUE

                            22, rue de la Tour d'Auvergne 75009 Paris
                            tel : 06 77 69 24 51

                            douvilleolivier@...

                            liens
                            http://www.dunod.com/pages/ouvrages/ficheouvrage.asp?id=49180
                            http://www.psycho-ressources.com/olivier-douville.html

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                          • Howard Rye
                            Charlie Segar, Keyboard Wizard Supreme , made four issued sides for Decca in 1934/5 and four for OKeh in 1940. They can all be heard on the CD Piano
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 2, 2007
                              Charlie Segar, "Keyboard Wizard Supreme", made four issued sides for Decca
                              in 1934/5 and four for OKeh in 1940. They can all be heard on the CD 'Piano
                              Blues-Volume 2', Document DOCD5220.

                              I had completely forgotten that I wrote the notes and that I found a Paul
                              Oliver interview with Billie Pierce in which she recalled Segar as coming
                              from her own hometown, Pensacola, Florida, and said that in his act he
                              played trumpet and piano simultaneously, and blindfolded. On record he only
                              plays piano.

                              Hadda Brooks is great. I'm always surprised more fuss is not made about her.
                              There's a wonderful collection of her boogies on an Ace CD (CDCHM889,
                              Swingin' The Boogie).

                              on 2/11/07 21:02, Dan Van Landingham at danvanlandingham@... wrote:

                              I never heard of Charlie Segar,but I had a few Capitol 78s of Nellie
                              Lutcher.She was good.She
                              was part of the rhythm and blues scene of the forties.Her contemporaries
                              were Hadda Broo-
                              ks and Julia Lee who was also a Capitol artist.Brooks recorded for a label
                              called "Modern" in
                              the early fifties.I liked Lutcher better than Lee.



                              Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                              howard@...
                              Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • heckman_michael
                              I only heard one other trumpeter imitate the later Armstrong and that was on an old Command album I had of Doc Severensen.I would rather remember Armstrong the
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 3, 2007
                                I only heard one other trumpeter imitate the later Armstrong and that
                                was on an old Command album I had of Doc Severensen.I would rather
                                remember Armstrong the way he sounded back in the late '20s and
                                early '30s.


                                I think Ruby Braff did a good job keeping Louis' style alive and
                                meaningful.
                              • David Brown
                                Howard I ve got the Louis/Gabriele on behind me and right, only Louis could have carried this off. His opening trumpet paraphrase of the --- actually rather
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 5, 2007
                                  Howard

                                  I've got the Louis/Gabriele on behind me and right, only Louis could have
                                  carried this off. His opening trumpet paraphrase of the --- actually rather
                                  nice --- tune is profound and his vocal line and obligato and scatting with
                                  Gabrielle are beautiful.

                                  Poisonous moppet is a little unjustified, she sings it straight and in tune
                                  without over emoting.

                                  Not mentioned yet and recommended 'Plays King Oliver' and 'Louis & The Good
                                  Book' albums.

                                  Dave




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Howard Rye
                                  To which I can only say: Have you seen her? I m sure she was a very sweet child. on 5/11/07 14:55, David Brown at johnhaleysims@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I ve got
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Nov 5, 2007
                                    To which I can only say:

                                    "Have you seen her?"

                                    I'm sure she was a very sweet child.

                                    on 5/11/07 14:55, David Brown at johnhaleysims@... wrote:

                                    I've got the Louis/Gabriele on behind me

                                    Poisonous moppet is a little unjustified, she sings it straight and in tune
                                    without over emoting.



                                    Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                                    howard@...
                                    Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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