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West End Blues

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  • soundofcd
    I confess I m a bit of a lurker on this site; I m a victim in fact of an excess of eclecticism. However, I ve become embroiled in a controversy which somebody
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 14, 2007
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      I confess I'm a bit of a lurker on this site; I'm a victim in fact of
      an excess of eclecticism. However, I've become embroiled in a
      controversy which somebody more knowledgable than I can hopefully
      assist me with.

      The originator of the controversy is adamant that the original
      recorder of West End Blues was King Oliver. According to sleeve notes
      at my disposal, this is certainly correct; Oliver having cut the
      piece on 11th June 1928, with Armstrong's version being recorded 17
      days later on the 28th.

      However, my confrere claims that an earlier recording of West End
      Blues was made by Oliver about 1923, that the classic arrangement,
      which everyone thinks is Armstrong's, dates from this recording, and
      that Armstrong merely lifted the arrangement.

      If this is true, the record is not on the Retrieval retrospective of
      Oliver's Gennett recordings, which of course covers the period in
      question.

      Have I missed something, or am I correct in thinking the man is
      mistaken ?
    • Olivier Douville
      According to me The Victor Version of West End Blues by King O. is16 january 1929, there is also a King Oliver Syncopators version recorded may be the11th of
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 14, 2007
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        According to me

        The Victor Version of West End Blues by King O. is16 january 1929, there is
        also a King Oliver Syncopators version recorded may be the11th of June
        1928. Satch famous version is dated of 28 july 1927. Ther is nothing in
        commun when we compare the very good Oliver (close of what he did with "Tin
        Roof Blues") and the masterpiece by Satch, both 1928 versions; The other
        version by Olivier dated of 1929 is a very pale copy of the L.A. Hot Five
        Version. Metcalf does the trumpet solo. They are very good records by
        Oliver during the Victor era but not that poor West End Blues. J K Oliver
        laso recorded a version of this tune with a terrible corny blues singer i
        don't remember her name.

        Sorry for my poor english

        Best regards


        Olivier Douville

        I confess I'm a bit of a lurker on this site; I'm a victim in fact of
        an excess of eclecticism. However, I've become embroiled in a
        controversy which somebody more knowledgable than I can hopefully
        assist me with.

        The originator of the controversy is adamant that the original
        recorder of West End Blues was King Oliver. According to sleeve notes
        at my disposal, this is certainly correct; Oliver having cut the
        piece on 11th June 1928, with Armstrong's version being recorded 17
        days later on the 28th.

        However, my confrere claims that an earlier recording of West End
        Blues was made by Oliver about 1923, that the classic arrangement,
        which everyone thinks is Armstrong's, dates from this recording, and
        that Armstrong merely lifted the arrangement.

        If this is true, the record is not on the Retrieval retrospective of
        Oliver's Gennett recordings, which of course covers the period in
        question.

        Have I missed something, or am I correct in thinking the man is
        mistaken ?




        --










        Olivier Douville


        Directeur de publication de PSYCHOLOGIE CLINIQUE

        22, rue de la Tour d'Auvergne 75009 Paris
        tel : 06 77 69 24 51

        douvilleolivier@...


        liens
        http://www.dunod.com/pages/ouvrages/ficheouvrage.asp?id=49180
        http://www.psycho-ressources.com/olivier-douville.html













        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Olivier Douville
        I mean Satch famous version is dated of 28 july 1928. Sorry (as said Bix) OD. According to me The Victor Version of West End Blues by King O. is16 january
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 14, 2007
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          I mean Satch famous version is dated of 28 july 1928. Sorry (as said Bix)
          OD.

          According to me

          The Victor Version of West End Blues by King O. is16 january 1929, there is
          also a King Oliver Syncopators version recorded may be the11th of June
          1928. Satch famous version is dated of 28 july 1927. Ther is nothing in
          commun when we compare the very good Oliver (close of what he did with "Tin
          Roof Blues") and the masterpiece by Satch, both 1928 versions; The other
          version by Olivier dated of 1929 is a very pale copy of the L.A. Hot Five
          Version. Metcalf does the trumpet solo. They are very good records by
          Oliver during the Victor era but not that poor West End Blues. J K Oliver
          laso recorded a version of this tune with a terrible corny blues singer i
          don't remember her name.

          Sorry for my poor english

          Best regards

          Olivier Douville

          I confess I'm a bit of a lurker on this site; I'm a victim in fact of
          an excess of eclecticism. However, I've become embroiled in a
          controversy which somebody more knowledgable than I can hopefully
          assist me with.

          The originator of the controversy is adamant that the original
          recorder of West End Blues was King Oliver. According to sleeve notes
          at my disposal, this is certainly correct; Oliver having cut the
          piece on 11th June 1928, with Armstrong's version being recorded 17
          days later on the 28th.

          However, my confrere claims that an earlier recording of West End
          Blues was made by Oliver about 1923, that the classic arrangement,
          which everyone thinks is Armstrong's, dates from this recording, and
          that Armstrong merely lifted the arrangement.

          If this is true, the record is not on the Retrieval retrospective of
          Oliver's Gennett recordings, which of course covers the period in
          question.

          Have I missed something, or am I correct in thinking the man is
          mistaken ?


          --










          Olivier Douville


          Directeur de publication de PSYCHOLOGIE CLINIQUE

          22, rue de la Tour d'Auvergne 75009 Paris
          tel : 06 77 69 24 51

          douvilleolivier@...


          liens
          http://www.dunod.com/pages/ouvrages/ficheouvrage.asp?id=49180
          http://www.psycho-ressources.com/olivier-douville.html













          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stuart MacBeth
          Hello Bugs There were no less than twelve versions of West End Blues recorded within the two year period after Clarence Williams got the copyright on Oliver s
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 14, 2007
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            Hello Bugs

            There were no less than twelve versions of West End Blues recorded within the two year period after Clarence Williams got the copyright on Oliver's composition in 1928 - most of which, unsurprisingly capitalise on the success of the LA recording and involve my main man Clarence Williams!

            OD provides all the correct dates here and Armstrong's IS the first (and greatest, of course)! There is no doubt that the opening cadenza represented a paradigm shift in our music; there are all kinds of reasons why we're so fascinated that Papa Joe had Metcalf try and copy the opening - who knows, record boss pressure? Perfection pure and simple? Maybe the LA record sold so fast us bugs couldn't get enough of that cadenza! I'd like to hear some of those other versions....

            So I don't think your friend is right on THIS one. But if there is a 1923 version of West End Blues played by anyone then PLEASE! Let us hear it!

            And don't tell Clarence.....


            Stuart
            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Olivier Douville <douvilleolivier@...>
            To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, 14 September, 2007 6:02:32 PM
            Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] West End Blues

            I mean Satch famous version is dated of 28 july 1928. Sorry (as said Bix)
            OD.

            According to me

            The Victor Version of West End Blues by King O. is16 january 1929, there is
            also a King Oliver Syncopators version recorded may be the11th of June
            1928. Satch famous version is dated of 28 july 1927. Ther is nothing in
            commun when we compare the very good Oliver (close of what he did with "Tin
            Roof Blues") and the masterpiece by Satch, both 1928 versions; The other
            version by Olivier dated of 1929 is a very pale copy of the L.A. Hot Five
            Version. Metcalf does the trumpet solo. They are very good records by
            Oliver during the Victor era but not that poor West End Blues. J K Oliver
            laso recorded a version of this tune with a terrible corny blues singer i
            don't remember her name.

            Sorry for my poor english

            Best regards

            Olivier Douville

            I confess I'm a bit of a lurker on this site; I'm a victim in fact of
            an excess of eclecticism. However, I've become embroiled in a
            controversy which somebody more knowledgable than I can hopefully
            assist me with.

            The originator of the controversy is adamant that the original
            recorder of West End Blues was King Oliver. According to sleeve notes
            at my disposal, this is certainly correct; Oliver having cut the
            piece on 11th June 1928, with Armstrong's version being recorded 17
            days later on the 28th.

            However, my confrere claims that an earlier recording of West End
            Blues was made by Oliver about 1923, that the classic arrangement,
            which everyone thinks is Armstrong's, dates from this recording, and
            that Armstrong merely lifted the arrangement.

            If this is true, the record is not on the Retrieval retrospective of
            Oliver's Gennett recordings, which of course covers the period in
            question.

            Have I missed something, or am I correct in thinking the man is
            mistaken ?

            --

            Olivier Douville

            Directeur de publication de PSYCHOLOGIE CLINIQUE

            22, rue de la Tour d'Auvergne 75009 Paris
            tel : 06 77 69 24 51

            douvilleolivier@ noos.fr

            liens
            http://www.dunod. com/pages/ ouvrages/ ficheouvrage. asp?id=49180
            http://www.psycho- ressources. com/olivier- douville. html

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Olivier Douville
            I can t find any JKO records of West end Blues befor the syncopators version. As I wrote he accompagnied a blue singer in 1929 whose name was Hazel Smith (she
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 15, 2007
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              I can't find any JKO records of West end Blues befor the syncopators
              version. As I wrote he accompagnied a blue singer in 1929 whose name was
              Hazel Smith (she seems now corny).
              OD


              Hello Bugs

              There were no less than twelve versions of West End Blues recorded within
              the two year period after Clarence Williams got the copyright on Oliver's
              composition in 1928 - most of which, unsurprisingly capitalise on the
              success of the LA recording and involve my main man Clarence Williams!

              OD provides all the correct dates here and Armstrong's IS the first (and
              greatest, of course)! There is no doubt that the opening cadenza represented
              a paradigm shift in our music; there are all kinds of reasons why we're so
              fascinated that Papa Joe had Metcalf try and copy the opening - who knows,
              record boss pressure? Perfection pure and simple? Maybe the LA record sold
              so fast us bugs couldn't get enough of that cadenza! I'd like to hear some
              of those other versions....

              So I don't think your friend is right on THIS one. But if there is a 1923
              version of West End Blues played by anyone then PLEASE! Let us hear it!

              And don't tell Clarence.....

              Stuart
              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Olivier Douville <douvilleolivier@...
              <mailto:douvilleolivier%40noos.fr> >
              To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, 14 September, 2007 6:02:32 PM
              Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] West End Blues

              I mean Satch famous version is dated of 28 july 1928. Sorry (as said Bix)
              OD.

              According to me

              The Victor Version of West End Blues by King O. is16 january 1929, there is
              also a King Oliver Syncopators version recorded may be the11th of June
              1928. Satch famous version is dated of 28 july 1927. Ther is nothing in
              commun when we compare the very good Oliver (close of what he did with "Tin
              Roof Blues") and the masterpiece by Satch, both 1928 versions; The other
              version by Olivier dated of 1929 is a very pale copy of the L.A. Hot Five
              Version. Metcalf does the trumpet solo. They are very good records by
              Oliver during the Victor era but not that poor West End Blues. J K Oliver
              laso recorded a version of this tune with a terrible corny blues singer i
              don't remember her name.

              Sorry for my poor english

              Best regards

              Olivier Douville

              I confess I'm a bit of a lurker on this site; I'm a victim in fact of
              an excess of eclecticism. However, I've become embroiled in a
              controversy which somebody more knowledgable than I can hopefully
              assist me with.

              The originator of the controversy is adamant that the original
              recorder of West End Blues was King Oliver. According to sleeve notes
              at my disposal, this is certainly correct; Oliver having cut the
              piece on 11th June 1928, with Armstrong's version being recorded 17
              days later on the 28th.

              However, my confrere claims that an earlier recording of West End
              Blues was made by Oliver about 1923, that the classic arrangement,
              which everyone thinks is Armstrong's, dates from this recording, and
              that Armstrong merely lifted the arrangement.

              If this is true, the record is not on the Retrieval retrospective of
              Oliver's Gennett recordings, which of course covers the period in
              question.

              Have I missed something, or am I correct in thinking the man is
              mistaken ?


              --










              Olivier Douville


              Directeur de publication de PSYCHOLOGIE CLINIQUE

              22, rue de la Tour d'Auvergne 75009 Paris
              tel : 06 77 69 24 51

              douvilleolivier@...


              liens
              http://www.dunod.com/pages/ouvrages/ficheouvrage.asp?id=49180
              http://www.psycho-ressources.com/olivier-douville.html













              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • soundofcd
              Thanks to everyone who s replied. It looks very much as though Oliver s 1929 version is the one my friend was thinking of and he has mentally timeshifted it
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 15, 2007
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                Thanks to everyone who's replied. It looks very much as though
                Oliver's 1929 version is the one my friend was thinking of and he has
                mentally timeshifted it back to 1923. One thing still puzzles me
                however. He claims that Alphonse Picou played a solo on one of the
                recordings (I can't remember which he said).

                Did Picou play clarinet on Oliver's 1929 version?

                Cheers,

                Fred McCormick.

                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Olivier Douville
                <douvilleolivier@...> wrote:
                >
                > I mean Satch famous version is dated of 28 july 1928. Sorry (as
                said Bix)
                > OD.
                >
                > According to me
                >
                > The Victor Version of West End Blues by King O. is16 january 1929,
                there is
                > also a King Oliver Syncopators version recorded may be the11th of
                June
                > 1928. Satch famous version is dated of 28 july 1927. Ther is
                nothing in
                > commun when we compare the very good Oliver (close of what he did
                with "Tin
                > Roof Blues") and the masterpiece by Satch, both 1928 versions; The
                other
                > version by Olivier dated of 1929 is a very pale copy of the L.A.
                Hot Five
                > Version. Metcalf does the trumpet solo. They are very good records
                by
                > Oliver during the Victor era but not that poor West End Blues. J K
                Oliver
                > laso recorded a version of this tune with a terrible corny blues
                singer i
                > don't remember her name.
                >
                > Sorry for my poor english
                >
                > Best regards
                >
                > Olivier Douville
                >
                > I confess I'm a bit of a lurker on this site; I'm a victim in fact
                of
                > an excess of eclecticism. However, I've become embroiled in a
                > controversy which somebody more knowledgable than I can hopefully
                > assist me with.
                >
                > The originator of the controversy is adamant that the original
                > recorder of West End Blues was King Oliver. According to sleeve
                notes
                > at my disposal, this is certainly correct; Oliver having cut the
                > piece on 11th June 1928, with Armstrong's version being recorded 17
                > days later on the 28th.
                >
                > However, my confrere claims that an earlier recording of West End
                > Blues was made by Oliver about 1923, that the classic arrangement,
                > which everyone thinks is Armstrong's, dates from this recording, and
                > that Armstrong merely lifted the arrangement.
                >
                > If this is true, the record is not on the Retrieval retrospective of
                > Oliver's Gennett recordings, which of course covers the period in
                > question.
                >
                > Have I missed something, or am I correct in thinking the man is
                > mistaken ?
                >
                >
                > --
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Olivier Douville
                >
                >
                > Directeur de publication de PSYCHOLOGIE CLINIQUE
                >
                > 22, rue de la Tour d'Auvergne 75009 Paris
                > tel : 06 77 69 24 51
                >
                > douvilleolivier@...
                >
                >
                > liens
                > http://www.dunod.com/pages/ouvrages/ficheouvrage.asp?id=49180
                > http://www.psycho-ressources.com/olivier-douville.html
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Robert Smith
                As far as is known Alphonse Picou never recorded with King Oliver. Cheers Bob Smith [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 15, 2007
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                  As far as is known Alphonse Picou never recorded with King Oliver.

                  Cheers

                  Bob Smith


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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