RE: [RedHotJazz] Ida Cox's "Coffin Blues"
I have just heard 'Coffin Blues' on RHJ with the limitations that source
suggests. I do not own this side nor its sessionmate 'Rambling Blues'. Maybe
somebody who has good copies of both could also comment ?
But. Ladnier was definitely in Europe and Joe Smith was in N.Y.C. Also
Ladnier was N.O. and Joe Smith uniquely East Coast and their styles are
Smith, who appears on Cox N.Y.C sides, was originally listed on these in
the 1950 'Jazz Directory' but presumably because it was assumed to be a
N.Y.C. session. Rust -1 has Oliver. Rust -3 Oliver or Shoffner. My first
edition of Rust/Allen 'King Joe Oliver' does not even discus this as a
possible Oliver item. What does the last Laurie Wright edition have anybody
? Nothing my guess for, to me, it is not Oliver.
'Coffin' has similar instrumentation and sound to the Bessie/Louis 'St
Louis Blues' session of earlier that year and I suggest is an attempt to
emulate. The trumpet player is very minimal and distant but I think also
attempts to offer a subdued Louis obligato style. However, there is really
not enough for positive identification but Shoffner, who absorbed some
Louis early and was on the previous Cox session, seems a good guess.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- on 10/9/07 9:30, David Brown at johnhaleysims@... wrote:
>Rust -1 has Oliver. Rust -3 Oliver or Shoffner. My firstIt is included in the non-Oliver section of Laurie Wright's book, probably
>edition of Rust/Allen 'King Joe Oliver' does not even discus this as a
>possible Oliver item. What does the last Laurie Wright edition have anybody
>? Nothing my guess for, to me, it is not Oliver.
because the claim had been repeated on a then recent LP sleeve.
His comments, definitive as far as I'm concerned, are:
"There are certainly many of Oliver's trademarks on this, but the tone is a
little too sweet to be him and it is more likely someone else trying to play
like him. Shoffner is a possible candidate but in the absence of any firm
evidence it is safe to leave him as 'unknown'."
Which is what we did in B&G 4. I do not think this is any of the known names
which have been proposed. It is some member of Local 208 who didn't make
many records. Unfortunately many of the earlier collectors who could have
asked people who might have known preferred to speculate and we will now
never know. It's that simple!
Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
- --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote:
>Since Shoffner seems to have been established on the preceding
> "Shoffner is a possible candidate but in the absence of any firm
> evidence it is safe to leave him as 'unknown'."
matrices, Cox's "How Can I Miss You When I've Got Dead Aim"/"I Ain't
Got Nobody", a comparison with these might prove illuminating one way
or the other (though I'd guess this has already been done)...
In his Shoffner discography of 2001, Klaus-Uwe Durr lists Bob firmly
on "Coffin" and "Rambling" with "Lovie Austin or poss. Jesse
Crump-organ". Are there any other records on which Lovie might play
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "David Brown" <johnhaleysims@...>
> I have just heard 'Coffin Blues' on RHJ with the limitations that source
> suggests. I do not own this side nor its sessionmate 'Rambling
> somebody who has good copies of both could also comment ?I have "Coffin Blues"/"Rambling Blues" on LP 'Ida Cox' (BYG
529.073)... Not sure about the quality, will make a point to listen