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RE: [RedHotJazz] Ida Cox's "Coffin Blues"

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  • David Brown
    Bob I have just heard Coffin Blues on RHJ with the limitations that source suggests. I do not own this side nor its sessionmate Rambling Blues . Maybe
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 10, 2007
      Bob

      I have just heard 'Coffin Blues' on RHJ with the limitations that source
      suggests. I do not own this side nor its sessionmate 'Rambling Blues'. Maybe
      somebody who has good copies of both could also comment ?

      But. Ladnier was definitely in Europe and Joe Smith was in N.Y.C. Also
      Ladnier was N.O. and Joe Smith uniquely East Coast and their styles are
      vastly dissimilar.

      Smith, who appears on Cox N.Y.C sides, was originally listed on these in
      the 1950 'Jazz Directory' but presumably because it was assumed to be a
      N.Y.C. session. Rust -1 has Oliver. Rust -3 Oliver or Shoffner. My first
      edition of Rust/Allen 'King Joe Oliver' does not even discus this as a
      possible Oliver item. What does the last Laurie Wright edition have anybody
      ? Nothing my guess for, to me, it is not Oliver.

      'Coffin' has similar instrumentation and sound to the Bessie/Louis 'St
      Louis Blues' session of earlier that year and I suggest is an attempt to
      emulate. The trumpet player is very minimal and distant but I think also
      attempts to offer a subdued Louis obligato style. However, there is really
      not enough for positive identification but Shoffner, who absorbed some
      Louis early and was on the previous Cox session, seems a good guess.

      Dave











      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Howard Rye
      ... It is included in the non-Oliver section of Laurie Wright s book, probably because the claim had been repeated on a then recent LP sleeve. His comments,
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 10, 2007
        on 10/9/07 9:30, David Brown at johnhaleysims@... wrote:


        >Rust -1 has Oliver. Rust -3 Oliver or Shoffner. My first
        >edition of Rust/Allen 'King Joe Oliver' does not even discus this as a
        >possible Oliver item. What does the last Laurie Wright edition have anybody
        >? Nothing my guess for, to me, it is not Oliver.

        It is included in the non-Oliver section of Laurie Wright's book, probably
        because the claim had been repeated on a then recent LP sleeve.

        His comments, definitive as far as I'm concerned, are:

        "There are certainly many of Oliver's trademarks on this, but the tone is a
        little too sweet to be him and it is more likely someone else trying to play
        like him. Shoffner is a possible candidate but in the absence of any firm
        evidence it is safe to leave him as 'unknown'."

        Which is what we did in B&G 4. I do not think this is any of the known names
        which have been proposed. It is some member of Local 208 who didn't make
        many records. Unfortunately many of the earlier collectors who could have
        asked people who might have known preferred to speculate and we will now
        never know. It's that simple!




        Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
        howard@...
        Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
      • spacelights
        ... Since Shoffner seems to have been established on the preceding matrices, Cox s How Can I Miss You When I ve Got Dead Aim / I Ain t Got Nobody , a
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 10, 2007
          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote:
          >
          > "Shoffner is a possible candidate but in the absence of any firm
          > evidence it is safe to leave him as 'unknown'."

          Since Shoffner seems to have been established on the preceding
          matrices, Cox's "How Can I Miss You When I've Got Dead Aim"/"I Ain't
          Got Nobody", a comparison with these might prove illuminating one way
          or the other (though I'd guess this has already been done)...

          In his Shoffner discography of 2001, Klaus-Uwe Durr lists Bob firmly
          on "Coffin" and "Rambling" with "Lovie Austin or poss. Jesse
          Crump-organ". Are there any other records on which Lovie might play
          the organ?

          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "David Brown" <johnhaleysims@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I have just heard 'Coffin Blues' on RHJ with the limitations that source
          > suggests. I do not own this side nor its sessionmate 'Rambling
          Blues'. Maybe
          > somebody who has good copies of both could also comment ?

          I have "Coffin Blues"/"Rambling Blues" on LP 'Ida Cox' (BYG
          529.073)... Not sure about the quality, will make a point to listen
          sometime soon.

          John
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