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Re: [RedHotJazz] Since the Name of Keppard Came up...

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  • Howard Rye
    ... This was re-posted to yet another list on which I replied as follows (slightly edited for this more public forum, which does NOT mean that it contained any
    Message 1 of 2 , May 28, 2005
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      on 28/5/05 1:44, David N. Lewis at udtv@... wrote:

      > I had posted this to 78-L but no one came forward. Does anyone have
      > thoughts on this? Thanks!
      >
      > Uncle Dave Lewis
      > excuse the cross-post please


      This was re-posted to yet another list on which I replied as follows
      (slightly edited for this more public forum, which does NOT mean that it
      contained any slighting references to you! It didn't. The really alert
      members of both lists will note that I have also corrected a grammatical
      mistake.):


      >Paramount 12050
      >Jelly Roll's Marton and his Orchestra
      >(1434) Big Fat (i.e. "Foot") Ham
      >(1435) Muddy River (i.e. "Water") Blues


      Just to observe that Morton himself told Alan Lomax that the cornetist was
      "Nick Dominique". Students seem always to have found this difficult to
      accept and Laurie Wright's Mr. Jelly Lord accepts the other names Morton
      proposed, albeit tentatively, but substitutes the speculation of Ladnier for
      the cornet without any explanation that I can spot.

      It doesn't seem to be known officially whether Lomax actually played the
      record for Morton or whether he was simply "remembering" the date. However,
      Morton's recollection that they featured a washboard player named Brown
      seems to answer the question. This is quite important in assessing the
      quality of the data.

      I should say that "unknown" will do just fine.

      It's to be hoped that a superior dubbing to Riverside's (or preferably a 78)
      is being used by those making these proposals!

      Recent research has led to the re-dating of quite a lot of Paramount
      sessions from this era but has not affected this matrix block (1431 to
      1450).


      >
      >Mike Meddings writes at
      >http://www.doctorjazz.freeserve.co.uk/page15.html
      >
      > The following is written in reference to this very famous Paramount
      >
      > Paramount 12050
      > Jelly Roll's Marton and his Orchestra
      > (1434) Big Fat (i.e. "Foot") Ham
      > (1435) Muddy River (i.e. "Water") Blues
      >
      > Mike Meddings writes at
      > http://www.doctorjazz.freeserve.co.uk/page15.html
      >
      > New Orleans cornetist Chris Tyle and California drummer Hal Smith
      > believe
      > that Freddie Keppard may well be the cornet player on Big Fat Ham and
      > Muddy
      > Water Blues. They also suggest that the ragtime phrasing, as on the
      > "out-chorus" of Big Fat Ham, bears no resemblance to Ladnier's
      > playing of
      > this era and that there is a characteristic Keppard lick on Muddy
      > Water
      > Blues, which is heard a couple years later on Keppard's recording of
      > Salty
      > Dog.
      >
      > I have also seen the names of several other musicians attributed to
      > the
      > above session, including Natty Dominique (c) Bernie Young (c): and
      > Arville
      > Harris (as).
      >
      > Roy Palmer, Wilson Townes, Charles Harris and Jasper Taylor, were all
      > former
      > members of W. C. Handy's orchestra in Memphis.
      > (end quote)
      >
      > So what the Morton-o-philes on 78-L think about the idea of Keppard
      > as the
      > cornetist on Pm 15030?
      > My source for "Big Foot Ham" is the old Riverside "History of Classic
      > Jazz"
      > which lists Natty Dominique as cornet, which I never before
      > questioned. But
      > I agree that the cornet sounds more like Keppard than others that I
      > know
      > well from this period.
      >
      > The recording date on Pm 15030 is estimated at "June 1923." Keppard's
      > first
      > official recording date, outside of a rejected 1918 Victor session,
      > is with
      > Erskine Tate's Vendome Orchestra in Chicago for Okeh, June 23, 1923.
      > So it
      > is possible that the first record for Jelly Roll Morton is also the
      > same for
      > Keppard, no?
      >
      > Thoughts, please.
      >
      > Uncle Dave Lewis
      > uncledavelewis@...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
      howard@...
      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
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