Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: Texas Alexander: Info about Ralph Venables

Expand Messages
  • Dan Van Landingham
    I mentioned Tony Colucci as member because of a picture I saw in the Columbia boxed LP set Thesaurus of Classic Jazz .Bose I know something about as I have
    Message 1 of 21 , May 29, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      I mentioned Tony Colucci as member because of a picture I saw in the Columbia boxed LP set "Thesaurus of Classic Jazz".Bose I know something about as I have several records he was in in the 1930s.He was on Glenn Miller's one and only Decca session in March of 1935.I used to have a couple of Vocalion 78s from April,1939 in which Bose was listed.He was with Tommy Dorsey in early 1936 on Victor.He had done a short stint with Ray Noble.Bob Zurke recorded for Victor very briefly between 1939 and May of 1940.One of my favourite sides was his recording of "Cow Cow Blues"(5/8/40).Chelsea Qualey(or Quealy)was on the band.I first heard of Qualey in the aforementioned "Thesaurus of Classic Jazz".John Chilton,in his Who's Who of Jazz,lists his dates as 1905 to 1950.He died in Las Vegas,Nevada.Stan King was the original drummer and I had records he had done with Louis Prima for ARC.In the late '20s I know he had worked with Seger Ellis recording for OKeh and,to refer from the "Thesaurus
      of Classic Jazz" once again,I saw a picture of Ellis working with Eddie Lang,guitar;Stan King on drums;Frank Signorelli on piano and Irving Duffy on violin.The trumpeter(or cornetist)was Fuzzy Farrar.The sole reedman was Jimmy Dorsey.I once had an OKeh 80 rpm recording of the song "I'm a Dreamer(But Aren't We All)" that I wore out by 1968.It was a black label OKeh in the 41XXX series.I am going to check with redhotjazz.com again regarding an OKeh I have by the Arthur Schutt Orchestra called "My Fate is in Your Hands".I think Bose is on that particular record.

      Albert Haim <alberthaim@...> wrote:
      Dan,

      Six of the Gennett recordings by the Wolverines were also issued on
      Claxtonola:

      Oh Baby - Gnt 5453 Cx 40336
      Copenhagen - Gnt 5453 Cx 40336
      Riverboat Shuffle - Gnt 5454 Cx 40339
      Susie of the Islands - Gnt 5454 Cx 40339
      Sensation - Gnt 5542 Cx 40375
      Lazy Daddy - Gnt 5542 Cx 40375

      Tony Colucci was not a member of the New Yorkers, nor did he record
      with Bix and Tram during their period between Goldkette and Whiteman,
      nor at any other time. Eddie Lang was the guitarist (and perhaps
      banjoist) with the New Yorkers and in the Bix and Tram recordings of
      that period.

      The recording of "Sugar" by Frank Trumbauer and His Orchestra was done
      in the afternoon of Oct 26, 1927. Presumably Bix was present, but in
      no condition to play. In the morning the same tune was recorded by Red
      Nichols and Trumbauer without Bix. The identity of the trumpet/cornet
      solo in Tram's version of Sugar is highly controversial. Bill Rank,
      Chauncey Morehouse, Boe Ashford and Red Nichols identified the soloist
      as Bix. Bix experts, Richard Sudhalter and Randy Sandke (and as far as
      I remember J.R.T. Davies) do not believe the soloist is Bix. Neither do I.

      All I know about Bob Zurke is that his band is the penultimate entry
      in Rust's Jazz Records Discography and that some of his trumpet men
      -Sterling (or Stirling) Bose and Chelsea Quealey- were highly
      influenced by Bix in the 1920s. Bose was a roommate of Bix's in St.
      Louis in 1925 or 1926.

      Albert

      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Dan Van Landingham
      <danvanlandingham@...> wrote:
      >
      > When did Bix record for Claxtona?I have never heard as I am familiar
      with what he recorded between 1924 and 1930 on Victor,Columbia,OKeh as
      well as a mysterious date allegedly with Sam Lanin.In "Bix Man and
      Legend",there was some speculation by Sudhalter that Bix recorded for
      him because of a check Lanin made out to Bix circa 1925.Bix did work
      with some of the men in Lanin's band:trumpeter Herman "Hymie"
      Farberman is the one I can handily recall at this moment.I had an LP
      some twenty five years ago that had a track by
      > "The Stellar Dance Orchestra" that was issued on a label called
      "Broadway".The speculation was that Bix and Tram recorded with the
      band between the time that Goldkette broke up his band and the time
      both Bix and Tram joined Paul Whiteman.I know that between Goldkette
      and Whiteman,Bix and Tram worked in the "New Yorkers" band led by
      Adrian Rollini and featuring Rank,Lang,Bix,Tram and a couple of now
      forgotten men:alto saxist Bobby Davis,banjoist Tony Colucci and
      trumpeter Sylvester Ahola.Also,what of that record date Red Nichols
      did for Victor with Tram?Tram did a date for Victor with Nichols then
      proceed to do a date under his own name.Nichols was supposed to have
      played but when Tom Rockwell,recording chief for OKeh at the
      time,refused to let Nichols play.Rockwell would do it but Bix had to
      play.Tram and Red found him God knows where but Bix was wiped out.Bix
      was brought to the studio to show Rockwell as to Bix's condition but
      it didn't matter.There was speculation by
      > Sudhalter that a good Bix imitator named Bo Ashford did the date
      but was unable to get any evidence to that effect.That bit of info was
      in "Bix Man &
      > Legend".In closing,you mentioned Bob Zurke;what of him? I remember
      reading that while growing up in Detroit in the '20s,he transcribed
      arrangements of McKinney's Cotton Pickers
      > from what I remember.I could be wrong on that.
      >
      > Albert Haim <alberthaim@...> wrote:
      > Ralph V. G. Venables was a record collector who wrote
      several articles
      > in jazz magazines from the 1940s or 50s on. [He also wrote about
      > motorcycles. See http://www.swallowcliffe.com/locals-venables.htm%5d. I
      > believe that his favorite musicians were Red Nichols and Bix
      > Beiderbecke. He wrote a lot about Bix. Ralph wrote to Frank Trumbauer
      > asking discographical questions. Here is a link to page 1 of
      > an article
      >
      > http://www.bixbeiderbecke.com/rhythmjuly1939p1.html
      >
      > in which Ralph reported some of his findings. One of the most
      > important ones, as far as I am concerned, is the fact that the
      > trombonist in "Singin' the Blues" is Miff Mole and not Bill Rank as
      > usually assumed.
      >
      > Bill Dean-Myatt once wrote to me and mentioned Ralph's efforts in
      > discographical research. Here is what Bill wrote,
      >
      > "July 1949 was exciting, Volume 1 of "Jazz Directory", which covered
      > Cecil Aagard to Walter Byrd appeared and for the first time there
      > seemed some prospect of knowing something about the records I was
      > buying. Although it was immeasurably better than anything that had
      > gone before if was woefully inadequate by today's standards. It did,
      > however, cover the full period from jazz's beginnings up until 1949
      > and covered the whole world, rather than just USA and Britain. Dave
      > Carey, Albert McCarthy and Ralph Venables managed to reach as far as
      > Fred Longshaw by the time the last, and most accurate, volume came out
      > in 1957, but there seemed little chance that information on Bob Zurke
      > would ever get into print."
      >
      > When Ralph died, his collection (over 10,000 records, mostly white
      > jazz including all of Bix's Claxtonolas) went to J. R. T. Davies.
      >
      > Albert
      >
      > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "David Brown" <johnhaleysims@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Venables seems to emerge as the dubious source for much supposed
      Oliver.
      > > Did he also have input into non-Oliver discography generally ? I
      > think the
      > > first editions of 'Jazz Directory' also carry his name.
      > >
      > > I have never doubted Oliver on the Alexander but I shall revisit
      > after many
      > > years and I note that my 1st Ed. Rust/Allen does not claim that
      Clarence
      > > confirmed here, unlike Okeh 8645. What does the latest Laurie Wright
      > edition
      > > have ?
      > >
      > > I also see that the personnel for Okeh 8620 --Hazel Smith -- is
      > reported as
      > > solely from ' Columbia files ( via George Avakian) '. Is this so
      > Howard ?
      > >
      > > Dave
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on
      Yahoo! TV.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >






      ---------------------------------
      Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • tommersl
      Thank you for the information Howard and Albert. I was wishing someone can point me to a place I can directly buy it. Here is maybe a public call to Patrice
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Thank you for the information Howard and Albert. I was wishing someone
        can point me to a place I can directly buy it. Here is maybe a public
        call to Patrice and Michael to start some sort of a group list of
        relevant and essential books and articles and where those can be found
        for a quick purchase. I'm speaking for myself but assume there are
        other members whom like me are just getting more interested as time
        goes by and has a lot yet to explore, and the problem of what and where.
        Tommersl
      • Patrice Champarou
        ... From: tommersl To: Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 10:53 PM Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Ralph Venables (w
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 2, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "tommersl" <tommersl@...>
          To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 10:53 PM
          Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: Ralph Venables (w Texas Alexander)


          > Thank you for the information Howard and Albert. I was wishing someone
          > can point me to a place I can directly buy it. Here is maybe a public
          > call to Patrice and Michael to start some sort of a group list of
          > relevant and essential books and articles and where those can be found
          > for a quick purchase.

          I think the most suitable part of the group's pages would be the database.
          You can create one if you have the relevant entries in mind, after what all
          members can add records provided they have a Yahoo account. I suggest you
          have a look at the "members" table (three entries, lol!) as an example, then
          if you do not want to create it yourself I can follow your instructions.
          Just go there http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/RedHotJazz/database and
          do not hesitate to click "create table", make tests using the blank template
          and see what it looks like, I never tried that but it seems very easy.

          Patrice
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.