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Re: [RedHotJazz] DOLLY JONES

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  • Howard Rye
    on 3/2/07 12:56, islay77 at fraser.mccombe@btinternet.com wrote: Does anyone know anything about her? Lots. This is based on the version of my New Grove entry
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 3, 2007
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      on 3/2/07 12:56, islay77 at fraser.mccombe@... wrote:

      Does anyone know anything about her?

      Lots. This is based on the version of my New Grove entry on her which
      happens to be on my computer:

      Jones, Dolly [Doll; Hutchinson; Armenra; Doli Armena](b Chicago, c.1906; d
      unknown). Trumpeter and singer. Her mother, Diyaw, was also a trumpeter, and
      her father played saxophone. She began her musical career as a member of the
      family band busking on the streets of St. Louis where they recruited
      Josephine Baker to dance with them around 1919. This act subsequently toured
      in vaudeville.

      In 1922, she was a member of a trio in Kansas City; a slightly later trio in
      Chicago included George James and drummer Alice Calloway.

      In May 1925 she was a member of Ma Rainey¹s band at the Grand Theater,
      Chicago, and in June 1926 recorded with Albert Wynn. When/That Creole Band
      (OK 8350) are her only securely identified recordings.

      In 1928, she toured with Ida Cox. After marrying Jimmy Hutchinson she began
      to use his name professionally, working with pianist Irene Armstrong before
      joining Walter Barnes in mid-1931. She left to form her own band, Twelve
      Spiritis of Rhythm, in July 1932.

      In 1932, she also worked with Lil Armstrong¹s Harlicans. By this time, she
      was again known as Dolly Jones, but shortly adopted the surname Armenra,
      assumed to be derived from the names of the Egyptian gods, which her mother
      also began to use professionally. In 1933, she was in a band led by tenor
      saxophonist Jack Bradley and trumpeter Bobby Booker at the Broadway
      Danceland in New York.

      She can be seen in Oscar Michaux¹s 1936 film Swing in which she is billed as
      ŒDoli Armena¹, and performs China Boy and I may be wrong. In 1937, she was a
      member of Mezz Mezzrow¹s Disciples of Swing at the Uproar House, New York,
      but by 1938 she had returned to Chicago where she again worked with Barnes
      and Irene Armstrong.

      In February 1939, she had an all-female band in Chicago, but by August 1940
      was a member of Sammy Price¹s band in New York. In 1943, she joined Eddie
      Durham¹s all-female band.

      Though nothing has been discovered of her later career, she evidently
      remained musically active as she played in workshops with Eddie Barefield in
      the 1970s.

      As well as the variants already quoted, her adopted surname appears in
      contemporary sources as Aremenra and Amera.

      Diyaw Jones appears on an Ethel Waters session but the tracks were not
      issued and don't appear to survive.



      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
      howard@...
      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • jaykay_4444
      Jazz histories acquaint us with reputedly great players who never recorded (e.g., Bolden, Perez, Hardy) and others who were presumably past their prime by the
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 3, 2007
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        Jazz histories acquaint us with reputedly great players who never
        recorded (e.g., Bolden, Perez, Hardy) and others who were presumably
        past their prime by the time they found their way into a recording
        studio (e.g., Oliver, Keppard). Another specialized category worthy
        of attention is that of "under-recorded" jazz players: not only
        musicians of demonstrated excellence such as Jabbo Smith and Punch
        Miller, whose lifestyles made them difficult to pin down, but also
        supposedly minor figures who never led their own groups, appearing as
        sidemen on (in some cases) only a handful of recordings, yet
        producing memorable solos or accompaniments that can only make us
        wonder why they weren't heard from more often - and make us wish that
        they had been. Everyone will have his own list. Here's part of mine.

        Keg Johnson: not a Teagarden follower, not a tailgate player, but a
        sprightly, bouncy swinger who was never given enough solo space.
        Heard to best advantage with Chu Berry.

        Edward Inge, Glyn Paque: clarinets best known to me from Red Allen
        small-group sessions. Consistently fine playing in both solos and
        ensembles.

        Shirley Clay, Guy Kelly: strong trumpet leads in a variety of combo
        settings, and equally powerful Armstrong-influenced solos. Kelly at
        his best on Ammons's "Boogie Woogie Stomp."

        Chauncey Houghton, Tony Zimmers: except for the giants of the era
        (Hawkins, Young, Webster), these two tenors could hold their own with
        anyone. Houghton pops up with Fats Waller here and there, while
        Zimmers, said by some to be the best (white) Swing tenor of all, is
        outstanding on four sides with one of Lil Armstrong's small groups.

        Morey Samel (sometimes listed as Samuel): no solos that I know of,
        but beautiful, sensitive trombone phrasing behind Manone's vocals on
        two Gene Gifford sides ("Nothing But the Blues," "Squareface").
        Where did he come from? Where did he go?

        Dolly Jones: the best female horn player I have ever heard - and I've
        heard only one recording of hers. Does any more of her work exist?
        If you didn't know who was playing, you'd never guess it was a woman
        (sorry, ladies).







        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote:
        >
        > on 3/2/07 12:56, islay77 at fraser.mccombe@... wrote:
        >
        > Does anyone know anything about her?
        >
        > Lots. This is based on the version of my New Grove entry on her
        which
        > happens to be on my computer:
        >
        > Jones, Dolly [Doll; Hutchinson; Armenra; Doli Armena](b Chicago,
        c.1906; d
        > unknown). Trumpeter and singer. Her mother, Diyaw, was also a
        trumpeter, and
        > her father played saxophone. She began her musical career as a
        member of the
        > family band busking on the streets of St. Louis where they recruited
        > Josephine Baker to dance with them around 1919. This act
        subsequently toured
        > in vaudeville.
        >
        > In 1922, she was a member of a trio in Kansas City; a slightly
        later trio in
        > Chicago included George James and drummer Alice Calloway.
        >
        > In May 1925 she was a member of Ma Rainey¹s band at the Grand
        Theater,
        > Chicago, and in June 1926 recorded with Albert Wynn. When/That
        Creole Band
        > (OK 8350) are her only securely identified recordings.
        >
        > In 1928, she toured with Ida Cox. After marrying Jimmy Hutchinson
        she began
        > to use his name professionally, working with pianist Irene
        Armstrong before
        > joining Walter Barnes in mid-1931. She left to form her own band,
        Twelve
        > Spiritis of Rhythm, in July 1932.
        >
        > In 1932, she also worked with Lil Armstrong¹s Harlicans. By this
        time, she
        > was again known as Dolly Jones, but shortly adopted the surname
        Armenra,
        > assumed to be derived from the names of the Egyptian gods, which
        her mother
        > also began to use professionally. In 1933, she was in a band led by
        tenor
        > saxophonist Jack Bradley and trumpeter Bobby Booker at the Broadway
        > Danceland in New York.
        >
        > She can be seen in Oscar Michaux¹s 1936 film Swing in which she is
        billed as
        > ŒDoli Armena¹, and performs China Boy and I may be wrong. In 1937,
        she was a
        > member of Mezz Mezzrow¹s Disciples of Swing at the Uproar House,
        New York,
        > but by 1938 she had returned to Chicago where she again worked with
        Barnes
        > and Irene Armstrong.
        >
        > In February 1939, she had an all-female band in Chicago, but by
        August 1940
        > was a member of Sammy Price¹s band in New York. In 1943, she joined
        Eddie
        > Durham¹s all-female band.
        >
        > Though nothing has been discovered of her later career, she
        evidently
        > remained musically active as she played in workshops with Eddie
        Barefield in
        > the 1970s.
        >
        > As well as the variants already quoted, her adopted surname appears
        in
        > contemporary sources as Aremenra and Amera.
        >
        > Diyaw Jones appears on an Ethel Waters session but the tracks were
        not
        > issued and don't appear to survive.
        >
        >
        >
        > Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
        > howard@...
        > Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • rwpilot1
        ... I found referance to a mother/daughter team of trumpeters, Dyer and Dolly Jones, who apparently played in the 20 s, but nothing more. REF:
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 3, 2007
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          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "islay77" <fraser.mccombe@...> wrote:
          >
          > Does anyone know anything about her?
          >
          > She appears on the tracks of Albert Wynn's Gut bucket five in 1926.
          >
          I found referance to a mother/daughter team of trumpeters, Dyer and
          Dolly Jones, who apparently played in the '20's, but nothing more.
          REF: hppt://info.net/usa/females.html.
        • Howard Rye
          on 3/2/07 19:11, jaykay_4444 at jaykay_4444@yahoo.com wrote: Dolly Jones: the best female horn player I have ever heard - and I ve heard only one recording of
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 3, 2007
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            on 3/2/07 19:11, jaykay_4444 at jaykay_4444@... wrote:

            Dolly Jones: the best female horn player I have ever heard - and I've
            heard only one recording of hers. Does any more of her work exist?
            If you didn't know who was playing, you'd never guess it was a woman
            (sorry, ladies).

            Interesting question:

            Why should you be able to guess it was a woman?

            Why should anyone think that a female player would sound distinguishably
            different?

            Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
            howard@...
            Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • spacelights
            ... Fascinating information--thank you, Howard. Laurie Wright s article Jimmie Noone from the Printed Page (in Storyville 2000-1 ) has this item, about a
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 3, 2007
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              --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Howard Rye <howard@...> wrote:
              >
              > on 3/2/07 12:56, islay77 at fraser.mccombe@... wrote:
              >
              > Does anyone know anything about her?
              >
              > Lots. This is based on the version of my New Grove entry on her which
              > happens to be on my computer:

              Fascinating information--thank you, Howard.

              Laurie Wright's article "Jimmie Noone from the Printed Page" (in
              'Storyville 2000-1') has this item, about a 1931 farewell party in
              Chicago for Noone and his band (soon to leave for New York):

              "Report ([Chicago Defender] 16/5/31 8/2) lists those present at the
              farewell banquet as Irene Edie's Peacock Orchestra (a pianist, she
              became Teddy Wilson's first wife), Earl Hines and band, Louis
              Armstrong and Doll Jones featured..."
            • spacelights
              ... She s considered likely on the Ma Rainey and Her Georgia Band session of c. 18-23 May 1925 (Chicago Defender of 23 May lists Dolly as part of Ma s group at
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 3, 2007
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                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "jaykay_4444" <jaykay_4444@...> wrote:
                >
                > Does any more of her work exist?

                She's considered likely on the Ma Rainey and Her Georgia Band session
                of c. 18-23 May 1925 (Chicago Defender of 23 May lists Dolly as part
                of Ma's group at the Grand Theatre, Chicago). I've not compared these
                sides with the Wynn's Gutbucket Five "When"/"That Creole Band."
              • Mordechai Litzman
                According to the RHJA Emanuel Perez may have recorded (as a member of a two part cornet team) with Elgars Creole Orchestra in 1926. Does anybody have any more
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 3, 2007
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                  According to the RHJA Emanuel Perez may have recorded (as a member of a two part cornet team) with Elgars Creole Orchestra in 1926. Does anybody have any more information ?

                  jaykay_4444 <jaykay_4444@...> wrote: Jazz histories acquaint us with reputedly great players who never
                  recorded (e.g., Bolden, Perez, Hardy) @...>
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >






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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Robert Greenwood
                  ... Apart from the lipstick on her mouthpiece, that is? I don t have my reference books handy right now but wasn t there a female trumpeter on some of the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 4, 2007
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                    > Why should you be able to guess it was a woman?

                    Apart from the lipstick on her mouthpiece, that is?

                    I don't have my reference books handy right now but wasn't there a female trumpeter on
                    some of the later Harlem Hamfats sessions?

                    Robert G.
                  • Howard Rye
                    on 4/2/07 10:40, Robert Greenwood at robertgreenwood_54uk@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I don t have my reference books handy right now but wasn t there a female
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 4, 2007
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                      on 4/2/07 10:40, Robert Greenwood at robertgreenwood_54uk@... wrote:


                      I don't have my reference books handy right now but wasn't there a female
                      trumpeter on
                      some of the later Harlem Hamfats sessions?

                      Ann Cooper.

                      According to Paige van Vorst's research, which was published in Mississippi
                      Rag, she's on both their 1939 Vocalion sessions.
                      Bartender's Blues/Ready for The River, 31 March 1939, Vocalion 04870 is a
                      good example of her work.

                      She was also a member of Lil Armstrong's bands in the 30s, though
                      unfortunately not on record. She was in the International Sweethearts of
                      Rhythm in the early 40s and is believed to have moved to Canada in the mid
                      50s.

                      Howard Rye, 20 Coppermill Lane, London, England, E17 7HB
                      howard@...
                      Tel/FAX: +44 20 8521 1098




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • spacelights
                      Just a bit more on Doll, it seems her uncle played drums for Lovie Austin circa 1922-3(?). From the Preston Jackson book Trombone Man (p 27-8): ...I
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 7, 2007
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                        Just a bit more on Doll, it seems her uncle played drums for Lovie
                        Austin circa 1922-3(?). From the Preston Jackson book 'Trombone Man'
                        (p 27-8):

                        "...I remember Mary Mack and her show opened at the Monogram Theatre.
                        Usually Lovie Austin and 'Scotty' played at the Monogram--that was
                        the band--just piano and drums, but I think they needed more
                        musicians. 'Scotty' the drummer was the uncle of Doll Jones, the best
                        woman cornetist I ever heard. Her mother, who was 'Scotty's sister,
                        was a cornetist too and she was around at that time, but she was not
                        as good as Doll. [the rest of the paragraph seems a bit off-topic, but
                        very interesting, so...] Mary Mack carried a New Orleans band which
                        played for the show. The personnel of that band was Mutt Carey,
                        cornet; Johnny Dodds, clarinet; Steve Lewis, piano ...and Baby Dodds
                        may have been the drummer. After that engagement at the Monogram, I
                        heard that the New Orleans band split up and Mutt Carey went back to
                        New Orleans and Johnny Dodds joined Oliver. Steve Lewis was a great
                        pianist and composer and wrote some very good tunes including 'The
                        Purple Rose Of Cairo'."
                      • spacelights
                        ... of a two part cornet team) with Elgars Creole Orchestra in 1926. Does anybody have any more information ? Frog CD Hot Stuff - Black Chicago Big Bands
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 7, 2007
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                          --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Mordechai Litzman <folke613@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > According to the RHJA Emanuel Perez may have recorded (as a member
                          of a two part cornet team) with Elgars Creole Orchestra in 1926. Does
                          anybody have any more information ?

                          Frog CD "Hot Stuff" - Black Chicago Big Bands 1922-1929 (DGF 28),
                          released in 1999, still lists the first Elgar cornet as "Possibly"
                          Emmanuel Perez.

                          The current (2002) Rust omits Perez and firmly identifies Will
                          Washington-cornet.

                          It's been the only session listed for either of these musicians...
                        • Michael Rader
                          I recall Perez was discounted a long time ago, since he simply couldn t have been present and the listing on Frog was more wishful thinking than anything else.
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 7, 2007
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                            I recall Perez was discounted a long time ago, since he simply couldn't have been present and the listing on Frog was more wishful thinking than anything else. But who was Will Washington?

                            Best wishes

                            Michael Rader
                            Karlsruhe, Germany

                            > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                            > Von: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                            > Gesendet: 08.02.07 05:34:20
                            > An: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                            > Betreff: [RedHotJazz] Re: Who was that? (was "Dolly Jones")


                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Mordechai Litzman <folke613@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > According to the RHJA Emanuel Perez may have recorded (as a member
                            > of a two part cornet team) with Elgars Creole Orchestra in 1926. Does
                            > anybody have any more information ?
                            >
                            > Frog CD "Hot Stuff" - Black Chicago Big Bands 1922-1929 (DGF 28),
                            > released in 1999, still lists the first Elgar cornet as "Possibly"
                            > Emmanuel Perez.
                            >
                            > The current (2002) Rust omits Perez and firmly identifies Will
                            > Washington-cornet.
                            >
                            > It's been the only session listed for either of these musicians...
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


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