Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [RedHotJazz] Re: NEW KING OLIVER REISSUE

Expand Messages
  • loerchen2@aol.com
    Well, I just got my copy today (thanks, David!) and it is everything I hoped it would be. I m amazed at the clarity and balance of the music. Best of all,
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 6, 2006
      Well, I just got my copy today (thanks, David!) and it is everything I hoped
      it would be. I'm amazed at the clarity and balance of the music. Best of
      all, I just discovered some Johnny Dodds riffs that I've never heard before,
      and the liner notes are excellent. This is a keeper!

      Sue



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • spacelights
      In my opinion, the word remastered fosters confusion as well... If an album or collection has been remastered, this means the very same
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 6, 2006
        In my opinion, the word "remastered" fosters confusion as well... If
        an album or collection has been remastered, this means the very same
        source--collectively--was mastered once before. If these are indeed
        new transfers, then the disc is newly mastered, not remastered.

        --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "davidsager1958"
        <davidsager1958@...> wrote:
        >
        > I think I can clear up the confusion:
        >
        > This is in fact the first time in decades that all 37 titles by the
        > Oliver 1923 band have been newly transferred and remastered. The
        > Retrieval set used a few dubbed titles plus some transfers that Mr.
        > Davies did back in the 50s.
      • Michael Rader
        David, Could you please provide suggestions *which* tracks are best to sample the improvement. As I ve said before, most computers don t provide really good
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 6, 2006
          David,

          Could you please provide suggestions *which* tracks are best to sample the improvement. As I've said before, most computers don't provide really good listening experience and a comparison (e.g. with the Retrieval) would be most revealing if it were possible to go directly to those tracks which actually come from originals rather than the 1950s dubs used for the Retrieval.

          If you've been collecting for any length of time, you grow wary of claims made for reissues.

          Michael Rader

          Karlsruhe, Germany

          >
          > Please explore the Archeophone site a little further and read the
          > comments from Dan Morgenstern, George Avakian and others AND even
          > better -- listen to the examples provided.
          >
          > Best
          >
          > David Sager

          _______________________________________________________________________
          Viren-Scan für Ihren PC! Jetzt für jeden. Sofort, online und kostenlos.
          Gleich testen! http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=022222
        • David Brown
          For instance. There is only one copy of Gennett 5275 ( Workingman/Zulus ) extant. Who owns this and was it made available for re-mastering or even
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 6, 2006
            For instance. There is only one copy of Gennett 5275 ( Workingman/Zulus )
            extant.

            Who owns this and was it made available for re-mastering or even 'mastering'
            ?


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • davidsager1958
            Hi Michael The samples, I think, are all representative and consistent, so I don t think that any one particular is better than another. Do, however, sample
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 7, 2006
              Hi Michael

              The samples, I think, are all representative and consistent, so I
              don't think that any one particular is better than another.

              Do, however, sample "Krooked Blues" -- Joe Oliver's blues style is so
              very evident on this one as he is rather exposed.

              Perhaps if you play a bit of the Retrieval on your computer speakers
              and then try a few samples, then you can get an idea...or perhaps
              rote your computer through your stereo system...

              David


              RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:
              >
              > David,
              >
              > Could you please provide suggestions *which* tracks are best to
              sample the improvement. As I've said before, most computers don't
              provide really good listening experience and a comparison (e.g. with
              the Retrieval) would be most revealing if it were possible to go
              directly to those tracks which actually come from originals rather
              than the 1950s dubs used for the Retrieval.
              >
              > If you've been collecting for any length of time, you grow wary of
              claims made for reissues.
              >
              > Michael Rader
              >
              > Karlsruhe, Germany
              >
              > >
              > > Please explore the Archeophone site a little further and read the
              > > comments from Dan Morgenstern, George Avakian and others AND even
              > > better -- listen to the examples provided.
              > >
              > > Best
              > >
              > > David Sager
              >
              >
              ______________________________________________________________________
              _
              > Viren-Scan für Ihren PC! Jetzt für jeden. Sofort, online und
              kostenlos.
              > Gleich testen! http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=022222
              >
            • davidsager1958
              OKeh, I re-read your question and have a somewhat better answer... Krooked Blues as it turns out was one of the dubs that John R. T. had used on the
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 7, 2006
                OKeh, I re-read your question and have a somewhat better answer...

                "Krooked Blues" as it turns out was one of the dubs that John R. T.
                had used on the Retireval/King Jazz set. Therefore "Alligator Hop"
                was from a dub as well.

                I'll try and find out which others came from dubbed sources.



                In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > David,
                >
                > Could you please provide suggestions *which* tracks are best to
                sample the improvement. As I've said before, most computers don't
                provide really good listening experience and a comparison (e.g. with
                the Retrieval) would be most revealing if it were possible to go
                directly to those tracks which actually come from originals rather
                than the 1950s dubs used for the Retrieval.
                >
                > If you've been collecting for any length of time, you grow wary of
                claims made for reissues.
                >
                > Michael Rader
                >
                > Karlsruhe, Germany
                >
                > >
                > > Please explore the Archeophone site a little further and read the
                > > comments from Dan Morgenstern, George Avakian and others AND even
                > > better -- listen to the examples provided.
                > >
                > > Best
                > >
                > > David Sager
                >
                >
                ______________________________________________________________________
                _
                > Viren-Scan für Ihren PC! Jetzt für jeden. Sofort, online und
                kostenlos.
                > Gleich testen! http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/freescan/?mc=022222
                >
              • Patrice Champarou
                ... From: davidsager1958 To: Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: NEW
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 7, 2006
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "davidsager1958" <davidsager1958@...>
                  To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:26 PM
                  Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: NEW KING OLIVER REISSUE


                  > OKeh, I re-read your question and have a somewhat better answer...

                  ... but the previous one hasn't arrived yet! ;-(

                  I'm sorry, David, the Yahoogroup server has strange delays, I cannot even
                  remove the moderation feature because it hasn't shown your name yet!

                  Patrice (creeping in the RHJ basement)
                • David Brown
                  Having further investigated the Archeophone site I find my earlier question answered and that the copy of Gennett 5275 was used. However, the link in the text
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 7, 2006
                    Having further investigated the Archeophone site I find my earlier question
                    answered and that the copy of Gennett 5275 was used.

                    However, the link in the text referring to Gennett 5275 plays the Okeh '
                    Working Man ' --- confusing.

                    The track list further down does indeed play the Gennett.

                    The transcriptions cited as 'dubs' on the Retrieval -- ' Krooked' and
                    'Alligator' -- even if so, are among the best on that issue and I cannot
                    hear any improvement on the limited clip available from Archeophone.

                    But PC soundstream never is a fair test but generally the Archeophone sound
                    seems good but then so is the Retrieval.




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • stewmclean
                    Many thanks for the inf. Sue,sounds like it s worth while adding the set to the collcetion.Just to hear anything new by Johnny Dodds would make it money well
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 8, 2006
                      Many thanks for the inf. Sue,sounds like it's worth while
                      adding the set to the collcetion.Just to hear anything new by Johnny
                      Dodds would make it money well spent.
                      Stewart
                      --------------------------------------------------------
                      --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, loerchen2@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Well, I just got my copy today (thanks, David!) and it is
                      everything I hoped
                      > it would be. I'm amazed at the clarity and balance of the
                      music. Best of
                      > all, I just discovered some Johnny Dodds riffs that I've never
                      heard before,
                      > and the liner notes are excellent. This is a keeper!
                      >
                      > Sue
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • David Brown
                      Sue What side are the newly discovered Dodds riffs on ? I cannot find timings for the Archeophone, can anybody oblige ? I m interested in what pitch
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 8, 2006
                        Sue

                        What side are the newly discovered Dodds riffs on ?

                        I cannot find timings for the Archeophone, can anybody oblige ?

                        I'm interested in what pitch 'corrections' have been made v.v. the
                        Retrieval.

                        Dave




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Hugh Crozier
                        Sorry - I ve missed something here. What is this about newly discovered Dodds riffs? Being a huge fan I would love to hear them. Hugh ... From: David Brown
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 9, 2006
                          Sorry - I've missed something here. What is this about newly discovered Dodds riffs? Being a huge fan I would love to hear them.

                          Hugh


                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: David Brown <johnhaleysims@...>
                          To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, 9 November, 2006 7:51:31 AM
                          Subject: RE: [RedHotJazz] Re: NEW KING OLIVER REISSUE

                          Sue

                          What side are the newly discovered Dodds riffs on ?

                          I cannot find timings for the Archeophone, can anybody oblige ?

                          I'm interested in what pitch 'corrections' have been made v.v. the
                          Retrieval.

                          Dave

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • David Brown
                          David implied that the King Jazz and Retrieval sets are synonymous. This never was so and I ve just relistened. The Retrieval is far far superior. More body,
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 9, 2006
                            David implied that the King Jazz and Retrieval sets are synonymous. This
                            never was so and I've just relistened. The Retrieval is far far superior.
                            More body, resonance, space, detail and dynamics, albeit at the acceptable
                            cost of more surface.

                            If indeed these are from the same JRT tape --- and they certainly sound as
                            if from the same copies -- and assuming that no further filtering
                            /equalising etc, digital or otherwise, was imposed by King Jazz -- ( and I
                            suspect it was ) --then this indicates just how influential the actual
                            digitalising process is.


                            Dave




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • spacelights
                            ... superior. ... acceptable ... sound as ... and I ... The implication perhaps wasn t intentional, but the use of the singular word set could cause someone
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 10, 2006
                              --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "David Brown" <johnhaleysims@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > David implied that the King Jazz and Retrieval sets are synonymous. This
                              > never was so and I've just relistened. The Retrieval is far far
                              superior.
                              > More body, resonance, space, detail and dynamics, albeit at the
                              acceptable
                              > cost of more surface.
                              >
                              > If indeed these are from the same JRT tape --- and they certainly
                              sound as
                              > if from the same copies -- and assuming that no further filtering
                              > /equalising etc, digital or otherwise, was imposed by King Jazz -- (
                              and I
                              > suspect it was ) --then this indicates just how influential the actual
                              > digitalising process is.

                              The implication perhaps wasn't intentional, but the use of the
                              singular word "set" could cause someone to think the two CDs were the
                              same...

                              I've noticed a somewhat similar dichotomy between King Jazz and
                              Retrieval CD issues of Morton's 1923-1924 solos, which I'm guessing
                              came from identical transfers. King Jazz does have more surface
                              noise, and the sound varies a bit from track to track. In a few
                              cases, this may provide a greater opportunity for equalization "to
                              taste," at the lisener's discretion. I like the character of the
                              Retrieval sound, which seems more uniform--usually something achieved
                              through mastering.

                              King Jazz credits John R.T. for "Transfers," Cesar Garcia for
                              "Pre-mastering Re-recording," and Digipro for "DAT Mastering."
                              Retrieval simply credits John R.T. with "Audio Restoration."

                              John
                            • davidsager1958
                              Hello Friends, John R. T. told someone...I cannot recall who it was now, that both King Jazz and Retrieval were from the same tapes. I agree that the
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 10, 2006
                                Hello Friends,

                                John R. T. told someone...I cannot recall who it was now, that both
                                King Jazz and Retrieval were from the same tapes. I agree that the
                                Retrieval set sounds better than the King Jazz.

                                I'll never forget the one time I visited John and he played me the
                                tape of his restoration of Oliver's "Mandy Lee Blues" -- it was
                                thrilling! He was a brilliant man.

                                David

                                --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "spacelights" <spacelights@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "David Brown" <johnhaleysims@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > David implied that the King Jazz and Retrieval sets are
                                synonymous. This
                                > > never was so and I've just relistened. The Retrieval is far far
                                > superior.
                                > > More body, resonance, space, detail and dynamics, albeit at the
                                > acceptable
                                > > cost of more surface.
                                > >
                                > > If indeed these are from the same JRT tape --- and they certainly
                                > sound as
                                > > if from the same copies -- and assuming that no further filtering
                                > > /equalising etc, digital or otherwise, was imposed by King Jazz --
                                (
                                > and I
                                > > suspect it was ) --then this indicates just how influential the
                                actual
                                > > digitalising process is.
                                >
                                > The implication perhaps wasn't intentional, but the use of the
                                > singular word "set" could cause someone to think the two CDs were
                                the
                                > same...
                                >
                                > I've noticed a somewhat similar dichotomy between King Jazz and
                                > Retrieval CD issues of Morton's 1923-1924 solos, which I'm guessing
                                > came from identical transfers. King Jazz does have more surface
                                > noise, and the sound varies a bit from track to track. In a few
                                > cases, this may provide a greater opportunity for equalization "to
                                > taste," at the lisener's discretion. I like the character of the
                                > Retrieval sound, which seems more uniform--usually something
                                achieved
                                > through mastering.
                                >
                                > King Jazz credits John R.T. for "Transfers," Cesar Garcia for
                                > "Pre-mastering Re-recording," and Digipro for "DAT Mastering."
                                > Retrieval simply credits John R.T. with "Audio Restoration."
                                >
                                > John
                                >
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.